N54Tech.com - International Turbo Racing Discussion
(#4176)
Old
RUFFSTUFF RUFFSTUFF is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 76
Join Date: Mar 2019
Car: 2019 STINGER GT2
Default 04-20-2021, 04:20 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Djfourmonie
I've used it, it won't "wreck" your plugs, it will turn them orange and that is the MMT residue.

If you use it lots, it will turn everything orange, the combustion chamber, the faces of the valves, all that.

But that is using it for basically years, constant use. Some people have done that, I believe Saab did some long term testing MMT as a octane booster and also pre-turbo water-methanol injection for production cars.

How many miles did you run it?
Reply With Quote
(#4177)
Old
Djfourmonie Djfourmonie is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 127
Join Date: Jul 2020
Car: 2020 Kia Forte GT
Default 04-20-2021, 04:24 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RUFFSTUFF
How many miles did you run it?
Only at the track to convert 91 into something more reasonable.

I wanted to see how fast or slow my car would run, lost 2 mph with one can for five gallons which is 103 octane.

That is why I don't really use anything but E85 blends.

Some crazy Canucks run it regularly because their access to E85 is very limited.


2020 Kia Forte GT
6 Speed Manual
JB4+Bluetooth Connect
Burger Motorsports Water Methanol (45/55 mix)
Whiteline Springs

13.75@101
Map 3, E30 ish, no WMI, Hoosier Drag Radials
Reply With Quote
(#4178)
Old
RUFFSTUFF RUFFSTUFF is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 76
Join Date: Mar 2019
Car: 2019 STINGER GT2
Default 04-20-2021, 04:37 AM

Which is probably why you can repeat the product marketing faithfully, and I say compare spark plugs at 20000 miles with 3oz Boostane every other tank with spark plugs at 20000 miles with 5 gal E85 every other tank...

You'll most likely wonder where the electrode went in the Boostane car...
Reply With Quote
(#4179)
Old
CK-19-GT2 CK-19-GT2 is offline
New Member
 
Posts: 10
Join Date: Jul 2019
Car: Kia Stinger GT2
Default 04-20-2021, 06:42 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Djfourmonie
You can always reduce the boost it's not a problem. It works fine with bolt-ons.
OK so if I'm running map5 (7psi over no tapper) with pure 103 race fuel and the ulrimate performance setup and my boost safety at 24psi I should be fine? Does anyone one here run the ultimate performance combo that can confirm? I know most of you out there don't run 103 octane but maybe somebody running E30 or E85 and the combo can chime in. I ask because in the beginning there were major boost spikes causing issues so I never went that route. But with my 2022 variable exhaust I wanna try it ��

Last edited by CK-19-GT2; 04-20-2021 at 06:48 AM..
Reply With Quote
(#4180)
Old
johnnhp johnnhp is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 32
Join Date: Jun 2019
Car: 2019 Hyundai Sonata 2.0t
Default 04-21-2021, 05:28 PM

This happen yet?
Reply With Quote
(#4181)
Old
Avant Avant is offline
New Member
 
Posts: 20
Join Date: Jan 2021
Car: G70
Default 04-21-2021, 05:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CK-19-GT2
OK so if I'm running map5 (7psi over no tapper) with pure 103 race fuel and the ulrimate performance setup and my boost safety at 24psi I should be fine? Does anyone one here run the ultimate performance combo that can confirm? I know most of you out there don't run 103 octane but maybe somebody running E30 or E85 and the combo can chime in. I ask because in the beginning there were major boost spikes causing issues so I never went that route. But with my 2022 variable exhaust I wanna try it ��
Should be fine to run MAP 5. Just log it and check the data. If you get boost spike and have EWG wires, just lower the FF.
Reply With Quote
(#4182)
Old
Terry @ BMS's Avatar
Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
Tuner
 
Posts: 33,248
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default 04-21-2021, 07:37 PM

Got our new AWD dynojet up and running finally today, strapped the Kia down for a few runs to break it in. A few on 91-crapane and a few more on E30. Will crank up the boost and E85 mix in the near future.

Power mods are JB4, BMS intake, BMS intercooler. CPI/flex fuel sensor installed but not enabled for these runs.

Pro tip: We had a decent amount of timing corrections on 91 octane as expected, but when we added E30 to speed up it's adaption we removed the battery ground for a few minutes and that did the trick! So if your timing is ever worse than expected for the fuel quality you can give that a whirl. We've been looking around for the ECU adaption reset commands via CANbus but so far not been successful. So the old school method will have to do for now.
Attached Images
   


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
Reply With Quote
(#4183)
Old
Avant Avant is offline
New Member
 
Posts: 20
Join Date: Jan 2021
Car: G70
Default 04-21-2021, 08:23 PM

That torque is impressive! Solid job!
Reply With Quote
(#4184)
Old
Lil Ripper's Avatar
Lil Ripper Lil Ripper is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 54
Join Date: Jun 2020
Car: 2019 Veloster turbo
Default 04-21-2021, 10:13 PM

I never even thought about ecu adaptation reset when switching fuels(e30, e40, ms109 etc) because I'm a noob. Would this be the same for all kia/hyundai platforms, my guess is yes. And this would be why when I switch too different fuels I don't notice the difference until after a few "drive cycles"?

ql
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Got our new AWD dynojet up and running finally today, strapped the Kia down for a few runs to break it in. A few on 91-crapane and a few more on E30. Will crank up the boost and E85 mix in the near future.

Power mods are JB4, BMS intake, BMS intercooler. CPI/flex fuel sensor installed but not enabled for these runs.

Pro tip: We had a decent amount of timing corrections on 91 octane as expected, but when we added E30 to speed up it's adaption we removed the battery ground for a few minutes and that did the trick! So if your timing is ever worse than expected for the fuel quality you can give that a whirl. We've been looking around for the ECU adaption reset commands via CANbus but so far not been successful. So the old school method will have to do for now.
Reply With Quote
(#4185)
Old
Djfourmonie Djfourmonie is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 127
Join Date: Jul 2020
Car: 2020 Kia Forte GT
Default Yesterday, 01:13 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil Ripper
I never even thought about ecu adaptation reset when switching fuels(e30, e40, ms109 etc) because I'm a noob. Would this be the same for all kia/hyundai platforms, my guess is yes. And this would be why when I switch too different fuels I don't notice the difference until after a few "drive cycles"?

ql
I would say yes and here's why -

Twice now on the dyno when I switch from running pump gas (91) to running Map 7 with pump gas, I lose all ignition advance even from pump gas which tops out at 5 degrees.

Last time it wasn't as bad since I have more methanol than water this time and not the other way around.

Still it made less power than Map 2 which hit 224 whp on 91 on DSport's dyno but as soon as we hit the water methanol it dropped to 218 whp. Then I started having datalog problems and we had to abort.

I've only reset the PCM once when I had the lean code from too much ethanol.

I think this would only be needed at the dyno. Unless your doing a fuel change at the track.


2020 Kia Forte GT
6 Speed Manual
JB4+Bluetooth Connect
Burger Motorsports Water Methanol (45/55 mix)
Whiteline Springs

13.75@101
Map 3, E30 ish, no WMI, Hoosier Drag Radials
Reply With Quote
(#4186)
Old
Djfourmonie Djfourmonie is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 127
Join Date: Jul 2020
Car: 2020 Kia Forte GT
Default Yesterday, 01:16 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Got our new AWD dynojet up and running finally today, strapped the Kia down for a few runs to break it in. A few on 91-crapane and a few more on E30. Will crank up the boost and E85 mix in the near future.

Power mods are JB4, BMS intake, BMS intercooler. CPI/flex fuel sensor installed but not enabled for these runs.

Pro tip: We had a decent amount of timing corrections on 91 octane as expected, but when we added E30 to speed up it's adaption we removed the battery ground for a few minutes and that did the trick! So if your timing is ever worse than expected for the fuel quality you can give that a whirl. We've been looking around for the ECU adaption reset commands via CANbus but so far not been successful. So the old school method will have to do for now.
When can I come over?


2020 Kia Forte GT
6 Speed Manual
JB4+Bluetooth Connect
Burger Motorsports Water Methanol (45/55 mix)
Whiteline Springs

13.75@101
Map 3, E30 ish, no WMI, Hoosier Drag Radials
Reply With Quote
(#4187)
Old
Lil Ripper's Avatar
Lil Ripper Lil Ripper is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 54
Join Date: Jun 2020
Car: 2019 Veloster turbo
Default Yesterday, 02:58 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Djfourmonie
I would say yes and here's why -

Twice now on the dyno when I switch from running pump gas (91) to running Map 7 with pump gas, I lose all ignition advance even from pump gas which tops out at 5 degrees.

Last time it wasn't as bad since I have more methanol than water this time and not the other way around.

Still it made less power than Map 2 which hit 224 whp on 91 on DSport's dyno but as soon as we hit the water methanol it dropped to 218 whp. Then I started having datalog problems and we had to abort.

I've only reset the PCM once when I had the lean code from too much ethanol.

I think this would only be needed at the dyno. Unless your doing a fuel change at the track.
Makes sense! I recently mixed c85 and 94 (e30) and it wasn't all that impressive.... UNTIL,
I drove it a few more times later on. No timing corrections and more boost (22psi) map 3. And boy does that little 1.6 pull nice and hard all the way to red line.

I still don't like how much fuel it pulls up top when running meth. Its always above 6000rpm when it breaks up. Never does it when I have meth turned off
Reply With Quote
(#4188)
Old
johnnhp johnnhp is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 32
Join Date: Jun 2019
Car: 2019 Hyundai Sonata 2.0t
Default Yesterday, 03:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
CA. Have someone who can come out in a week or two it looks like. If anyone can come sooner email me.
Did you guys have that person show up yet?


2021 sonata N-Line 2.5t, AEM Intake, HKS SSQV BOV, CP-E 3 midpipe w/high-flow-caat, CP-E Austentine caatback, Rev-9 Hyper Street 2 coil-overs
Reply With Quote
(#4189)
Old
Djfourmonie Djfourmonie is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 127
Join Date: Jul 2020
Car: 2020 Kia Forte GT
Default Yesterday, 07:13 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil Ripper
Makes sense! I recently mixed c85 and 94 (e30) and it wasn't all that impressive.... UNTIL,
I drove it a few more times later on. No timing corrections and more boost (22psi) map 3. And boy does that little 1.6 pull nice and hard all the way to red line.

I still don't like how much fuel it pulls up top when running meth. Its always above 6000rpm when it breaks up. Never does it when I have meth turned off
When you say it breaks up at high rpm do you see your fuel pressure drop in your logs?

Mine runs clean on Map 3 and additive 55 which is Map 3 ish boost levels (Map 7). Maybe you need to back off the amount of methanol or try Map 4 or 5.


2020 Kia Forte GT
6 Speed Manual
JB4+Bluetooth Connect
Burger Motorsports Water Methanol (45/55 mix)
Whiteline Springs

13.75@101
Map 3, E30 ish, no WMI, Hoosier Drag Radials
Reply With Quote
(#4190)
Old
Lil Ripper's Avatar
Lil Ripper Lil Ripper is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 54
Join Date: Jun 2020
Car: 2019 Veloster turbo
Default Yesterday, 08:55 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Djfourmonie
When you say it breaks up at high rpm do you see your fuel pressure drop in your logs?

Mine runs clean on Map 3 and additive 55 which is Map 3 ish boost levels (Map 7). Maybe you need to back off the amount of methanol or try Map 4 or 5.
Fuel pressure is good as it doesn't move off of 15. I never really use map 7. Usually just map 3 running 94 octane and 60m/40w mix. Additive set at 60. Afr between 12.3 and 12.6. But my trims take a deep dive past 5500rpm.

If I turn meth off my fuel trims are maxed at 42 the whole time and I never have an issue.
Reply With Quote
(#4191)
Old
Djfourmonie Djfourmonie is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 127
Join Date: Jul 2020
Car: 2020 Kia Forte GT
Default Yesterday, 10:11 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil Ripper
Fuel pressure is good as it doesn't move off of 15. I never really use map 7. Usually just map 3 running 94 octane and 60m/40w mix. Additive set at 60. Afr between 12.3 and 12.6. But my trims take a deep dive past 5500 rpm.

If I turn meth off my fuel trims are maxed at 42 the whole time and I never have an issue.
What nozzle are you using? On E30 and even on pump gas it goes down to 11.8 AFR from 5500 to fuel cut with I believe is a 55 methanol/45 water mix.

BM7 which is 640cc and that's additive 50-55.

You could be at the point were the stock fuel system can't pull anymore fuel so you'll need to change that with a flash. I think if I understand it right, that 12.6 is the leanest it wants go and there is still too much fuel.

The car will benefit from some mucking around with cam timing.

Will Hatzer is working on something.


2020 Kia Forte GT
6 Speed Manual
JB4+Bluetooth Connect
Burger Motorsports Water Methanol (45/55 mix)
Whiteline Springs

13.75@101
Map 3, E30 ish, no WMI, Hoosier Drag Radials
Reply With Quote
(#4192)
Old
Lil Ripper's Avatar
Lil Ripper Lil Ripper is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 54
Join Date: Jun 2020
Car: 2019 Veloster turbo
Default Yesterday, 11:12 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Djfourmonie
What nozzle are you using? On E30 and even on pump gas it goes down to 11.8 AFR from 5500 to fuel cut with I believe is a 55 methanol/45 water mix.

BM7 which is 640cc and that's additive 50-55.

You could be at the point were the stock fuel system can't pull anymore fuel so you'll need to change that with a flash. I think if I understand it right, that 12.6 is the leanest it wants go and there is still too much fuel.

The car will benefit from some mucking around with cam timing.

Will Hatzer is working on something.
Using the BM7 nozzle. I was wondering If it would be better to run the BM5. Or maybe have my meth turn on at 11or 12psi instead of 7 psi. Or maybe it's time for new plugs seeing as I have 40,000 kms on them (hks m45xl).
I was talking to N75 about tuning the car a Couple of days ago. They have tuned a few cars running JB4 with good results. So I'm leaning towards doing that in the next couple of weeks and still using my JB4.
Reply With Quote
(#4193)
Old
Djfourmonie Djfourmonie is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 127
Join Date: Jul 2020
Car: 2020 Kia Forte GT
Default Yesterday, 11:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil Ripper
Using the BM7 nozzle. I was wondering If it would be better to run the BM5. Or maybe have my meth turn on at 11or 12psi instead of 7 psi. Or maybe it's time for new plugs seeing as I have 40,000 kms on them (hks m45xl).
I was talking to N75 about tuning the car a Couple of days ago. They have tuned a few cars running JB4 with good results. So I'm leaning towards doing that in the next couple of weeks and still using my JB4.
I have increased where to half of total boost so 11 (22 psi peak) because I see when the WMI flows the timing drops and it takes till about 3500-4000 rpm for the timing to recover.

This is a 2500 rpm log pull or dyno pull the result is the same.

Plugs? Naa I have 30+ thousand on the stock plugs. Ton of dyno pulls and double digit drag passes.

You definitely want to keep the JB4 plugged in. That is called a stacked setup it's very common in Audi/VW and BMW communities. The benefits of keeping it plugged in and getting a back-end flash are tremendous. Besides what is going to control your WMI system?

You get superior boost control, boost by gear, 1/2/3 gear boost reduction.

With the flash you get adjusted fuel limits, lowered torque limits and cam timing adjusted, it allows the JB4 to work better.

I think your nozzle is fine actually.

I would have moved to a Back End Flash already but I want to see how far I can take the JB4 just to piss these flash only supporters off.


2020 Kia Forte GT
6 Speed Manual
JB4+Bluetooth Connect
Burger Motorsports Water Methanol (45/55 mix)
Whiteline Springs

13.75@101
Map 3, E30 ish, no WMI, Hoosier Drag Radials
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 4 (0 members and 4 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




vBulletin Skin developed by: vBStyles.com
Copyright 2007 - 2020, N54tech.com