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Default Nizpro update's? - 06-22-2016, 08:44 AM

Any update's on the progress? I don't want to bug them over there. I've heard that some people and turbo vendors are going to be receiving some products and wondering if there was a ETA on that. I love my E90 N54, but if the trans can't be made to be reliable it will be time to move on the the F10 platform.
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ZF 335i ZF 335i is offline
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Default 06-22-2016, 04:40 PM

I believe their in house 335i coupe ran striaght into the 1.5 60' times with a stock converter and turbos and went 11.2 first time ever at the track!
It has a Nizpro built trans with all of their custom internal parts. It WAS NOT tuned with their trans software. This was done simply to get a baseline and some data logs so they can back to back the difference with software vs no software.
Very exciting times ahead for the auto guys!
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Default 06-22-2016, 05:50 PM

1.5.....incredible!


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murdo81 murdo81 is offline
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Default 06-22-2016, 05:57 PM

I spoke to Simon from Nizpro here in Australia a few weeks ago and he told me that he was hoping around the end of July that he should have enough data and have everything sorted out in the trans and TCU... They have 3 test cars at present and still doing a lot of testing especially in the full bolt-ons.

Well thats my 2 cents worth.


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Default 06-22-2016, 10:48 PM

Hopefully more of the turbo vendors on here will stop jerking eachother off and send Nizpro some parts so they can test different setups


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bradsm87 bradsm87 is offline
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Default 06-23-2016, 05:33 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Milan
Hopefully more of the turbo vendors on here will stop jerking eachother off and send Nizpro some parts so they can test different setups
They already have access to cars with various turbo setups. They just need time to do testing, tweaking and working out their flashing tool for the masses etc. It's all happening. It's just a matter of time.
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Default 06-23-2016, 06:38 AM

Thanks for the reply's. I hope the R&D doesn't go cold.
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Default 06-23-2016, 07:41 AM

This is all very exciting but I'd be very interested in knowing how the shift quality is affected. Usually, a super high performance clutch will have an extremely harsh shift characteristic unless some special measure has been taken regarding the disc material that the friction material is adhered to but all that doesn't matter if all you're concerned with is building a race-purposed track car or setting some world record. However, a daily driver is a completely different story. Pretty sure I don't want my trans slamming into gear every time it shifts while I'm driving through town because the friction material is too aggressive or the EM Ratio is too high.

I'd also love to see some dynamic friction coefficient testing data from these guys or anyone else for that matter that's providing upgraded internals. We saw what L10 did to everyone. IMO, SAE friction testing data should be provided as a standard with any upgraded friction material to at least provide some scientific validation of the material, which includes a dynamic coefficient, shift quality and durability component.

I would also venture to say that ~90% of us are looking for something more in between a stock and a super-uber race build, which would be significantly more affordable than international freighting a $6500 race trans and/or components from the other side of the planet. Customs import duty taxes will increase the overall cost as well.

Just my $0.02.
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DarrylGarland DarrylGarland is offline
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Default 06-23-2016, 08:13 AM

Propulsive dynamics is getting close to a "solution" for the AT too. Competition is good


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Default 06-23-2016, 12:49 PM

Man finally they are moving...
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Default 06-23-2016, 09:16 PM

There is hope now for a 10sec E60!




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ZF 335i ZF 335i is offline
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Default 06-27-2016, 06:27 PM

Here is some more on the Nizpro in house 335i at the track.
Remember this car only has an upgraded transmission with billet input and intermediate shafts plus billet basket and custom Nizpro frictions. NO TRANS SOFTWARE has been used at this stage just to get a baseline.
The turbochargers are also dead stock.
I will post a complete thread on the car later that can be updated as changes are made.

Timeslip


Video link from its first track outing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MP9OQ_VJ-0

I cant wait to see what this thing will do with transmission software and some upgraded turbos!







.

Last edited by ZF 335i; 06-27-2016 at 06:35 PM..
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Default 06-27-2016, 07:52 PM

Im in. I need this


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ferocity02 ferocity02 is offline
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Default 06-27-2016, 09:03 PM

Here's a video of one their runs, apprently with their upgraded ZF trans.

I don't know about you guys, but the shifts are slooooow, as slow at stock it seems. With that much power the clutches won't last very long.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MP9OQ_VJ-0


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Last edited by ferocity02; 06-27-2016 at 09:16 PM..
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Default 06-27-2016, 09:11 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ferocity02
Here's a video of one their runs, apprently with their upgraded ZF trans.

I don't know about you guys, but the shifts are slooooow, as slow at stock it seems. With that much power the clutches won't last very long.
I thought it was clear that the car is still using STOCK TRANSMISSION SOFTWARE to obtain a baseline and some data logs so of course the shifts are slow.
These will then be used to compare against when they add trans software and sharpen the shifts up.
Pretty impressive the first time out to run what i believe is the fastest 60' AT time and also one of the fastest stock turbocharger times.
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ferocity02 ferocity02 is offline
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Default 06-27-2016, 09:17 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZF 335i
I thought it was clear that the car is still using STOCK TRANSMISSION SOFTWARE to obtain a baseline and some data logs so of course the shifts are slow.
These will then be used to compare against when they add trans software and sharpen the shifts up.
Pretty impressive the first time out to run what i believe is the fastest 60' AT time and also one of the fastest stock turbocharger times.
The video didn't mention whether or not transmission tuning was involved. It does say it uses their development transmission which I assumed included their custom tuning


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Default 06-27-2016, 09:18 PM

No doubt very impressive! Those 60ft's are awesome! Did they put a higher stall converter in to get those #'s? I would love to see what a difference their software TCU tune will do for a stock trans. I believe that will be were most all of their money will be. Hopefully they plan to do some stock trans, FBO, TCU program testing.
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ZF 335i ZF 335i is offline
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Default 06-27-2016, 09:39 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quicktime
No doubt very impressive! Those 60ft's are awesome! Did they put a higher stall converter in to get those #'s? I would love to see what a difference their software TCU tune will do for a stock trans. I believe that will be were most all of their money will be. Hopefully they plan to do some stock trans, FBO, TCU program testing.
No mate the converter is just the stock 95,000 Mile old one from the car at this stage.
They are starting software testing now i believe so it will be great to have these things finally shifting nicely and releasing the true track potential that we all know these cars have.
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Default 07-01-2016, 04:07 PM

That is obviously just the beginning and development continues. BimmerBoost wanted to know when they were planning to release their transmission upgrade, what the upgrades entails, if the TCU software can be purchased separately, etc.

These questions and answers below should provided some much needed details.

BB: What is the expected cost?

Nizpro: A fully internal Nizpro transmission upgrade will be approximately $ 7900 Australian dollars.

BB: How close is it to release?

Nizpro: We would like to be able offer full upgrades by Christmas .

BB: Who is doing the TCU software tuning?

Nizpro: Software calibrations are being done in house at Nizpro.

BB: Does the $7900 AUD include software?

Nizpro: Yes the calibration will be included as a complete package, however various calibration will be needed for various power levels.

BB: Is it possible to purchase the software separately from the hardware?

Nizpro: Absolutely, our plan is to offer calibrations totally separately. There will be a number of different calibration we will make available, for customers seeking different requirements. All will be based on standard transmissions, or of course our own upgraded transmission, if you have an upgraded transmission from another workshop you can certain use an off the shelf calibration but how it will behave I have no control over.

BB: What is the expected torque capacity?

Nizpro: Actual maximum torque numbers are a little hard to say, simply because there are many parameter that come into it. There is also a direct relationship with maximum torque numbers vs durability. In other words we could claim the transmission is capable of 1000 ft lbs of torque and in the fine print disclose it will last for half a mile at the torque figure. Customers need to be aware that the standard HP21 is rated at 450 nm, however this has a durability of 60,000 miles. It is clear that the stock transmission will cope with double its factory rating although its life expectancy is more like 20,000 miles those torque numbers.

BB: How soon will Nizpro be testing the software as thus far the 335i with Nizpro upgrades did not utilize the software in its 1/4 mile runs?

Nizpro: We actually have. We have track tested the car twice. Once using our upgraded transmission with Alpina for a base test data. 4 runs were recorded. We are not concerned with overall quarter mile times simply gear shift times for comparison, between calibrations. The second lot of testing using software changes were done the following weekend at a different track. The track had little grip on the day so the results were not really useful in terms of quarter times.


This is all good news. Nizpro is on schedule to release their product this year and they will not force you to bundle their hardware and software together.

Here are some additional details which should help get a better idea of what is involved.






Quote Originally Posted by Nizpro

As word has slowly spread about our progress mainly be guys posting emails that I have replied to, I decided to write a brief example of how the transmission control needs to be calibrated Ive added it below so you can get an idea of why its difficult to simply send a tune for a transmission and get a good result. There are other factors involved also, but this should give you a better idea regrading you above question 3.
The HP21 is very limited in its torque rating due to its overall size, it is as you know a ZF upgrade from the HP19. One of the reason these vehicles are slow over the quarter for the power they produce is because of the hugh torque limits the factory calibration has, in an attempt to keep them in one piece. If you simply shorten the shift times and reduce torque limits they simply fry clutch's, if you then add on coming and applied pressures the intermediate shaft simply fails and even the input shaft.

In short custom calibrations are very important based around engine torque and power levels, simply giving someone a cal from a 600 hp car that only has 400 hp will give the effect of very lazy shift speeds, going the opposite direction with a positive shifting 400 hp car and loading that into the 600 hp car will burn the transmission in a small number of shifts. The calibration needs to remove the appropriate amount of torque on each individual upshift, due to different diameter and number of clutches per gear. Unfortunely you can really only work out the finer part of this calculation by stripping the transmission and inspecting drive and friction plates. Of course with a large amount of experience you do get a good feel for what is working and what is not. The condition of each transmission plays a role as does what type of friction material, clutch clearances and the amount of clutch's that may have been added in an upgraded transmission. I m sure you have your head around it, but I give you an example of the torque limits that need to be applied in a HP26 with an input torque of 1200 ft lbs when upshifting into 4th gear.

Our Level 3 HP26 behind an engine output of 1400 hp {1200 ft lbs } we are able to have zero torque reduction in the first two upshifts { 1>2 and 2>3 } however in the 3>4 upshift we need to raise the reduction from minus 192 newton meters [ Factory } to minus 468 newton meters. Now when I hold training seminars this is one area for some reason guys have problems getting their heads around. The question that they quite often raise is, “ if you have built a stronger transmission why do you need to increase the torque limits by over double? ”

A factory Ford XR6 Turbo vehicle fitted with the HP26 produces 550 nm of torque, so on the 3>4 upshift the transmission needs a reduction of 192 nm to be able to apply the upshift reliably, the end torque number is 358 nm.

On our 1400 hp engines we have 1600 nm of torque however we need a 468 nm reduction to carry out this shift, giving us a end number of 1140 nm. This is a total torque number of 3 x above the factory rating however the torque reduction number is 2 x the factory reduction.

Hope this gives you some insight.
Things are looking up for the N54 automatic scene.

This article was originally published in forum thread: Nizpro ZF 6HP21 automatic 335i/135i N54 transmission upgrade Q&A - Pricing, release schedule, TCU software, torque capacity, etc. started by Sticky View original post
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Tony@VargasTurboTech Tony@VargasTurboTech is offline
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Default 07-02-2016, 08:59 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Milan
Hopefully more of the turbo vendors on here will stop jerking eachother off and send Nizpro some parts so they can test different setups
As stated previously in the other Nizpro thread. We have struck an exclusive deal with them for testing on both sides. They are being shipped our first set of RHD GC's along with a single barrel shotgun next week, in exchange for one of their first transmissions / Custom TCU flash. They will put the GC's on their test car, and dial it in. Then they will use that information to tailor our Transmission flash for transmission. Things are well in motion, we should have our tranny soon.


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Default 07-02-2016, 10:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech
As stated previously in the other Nizpro thread. We have struck an exclusive deal with them for testing on both sides. They are being shipped our first set of RHD GC's along with a single barrel shotgun next week, in exchange for one of their first transmissions / Custom TCU flash. They will put the GC's on their test car, and dial it in. Then they will use that information to tailor our Transmission flash for transmission. Things are well in motion, we should have our tranny soon.
@VTT, are you guys looking at the possibility of a technology license agreement from Nizpro to upgrade transmissions in the US using their technology and upgraded materials? I'd think an arrangement like this would greatly reduce the shipping logistics headache and time lag from Australia. And Nizpro would be interested in working with a strategic partner like you guys here in the US for the North America market. Just sayin...
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Maniac0908 Maniac0908 is offline
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Default 09-21-2016, 03:55 PM

Update?


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Default 09-21-2016, 04:08 PM

Propulsive Dynamic is going to be first...
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bradsm87 bradsm87 is offline
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Default 09-21-2016, 11:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maniac0908
Update?
No updates as yet.
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Default 09-22-2016, 12:36 PM

We got an email from Nizpro this morning. Our Transmission will be done by tomorrow. We should have it in our hands 1st-2nd week or Oct. So glad we decided to go the full solution route instead of the other band-aid route being sold currently. Excited to begin testing.


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