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leoffyddd leoffyddd is offline
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Default Logs of G20 330i B48B20D - 01-14-2021, 08:11 AM

Hey guys,

Here attached are some logs I just got running V17 map 2 and 3 WOT from 3rd to 4th. I am completely new to JB4 and have extremely limited knowledge on the logs.

While logging I aslo tested 0-100km/h time. It went from 6s to 5.31s when I selected map3. It is a very satisfying improvement to me, but I have no idea if there is any risk to the engine.

I have an Armaspeed intake, FTP turbo inlet, FTP chargepipe on the car. The best gas I can get is 98RON here in Hainan, China.

Please help me review the logs, any advice and suggestion would be very much appreciated.
Attached Files
File Type: csv P58_M2_R1_210114_220952.csv (9.9 KB, 7 views)
File Type: csv P58_M2_R1_210114_221245.csv (9.5 KB, 8 views)
File Type: csv P58_M3_R1_210114_221604.csv (9.8 KB, 11 views)

Last edited by leoffyddd; 01-14-2021 at 08:34 AM..
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Steve @ BMS/Fuel-It!'s Avatar
Steve @ BMS/Fuel-It! Steve @ BMS/Fuel-It! is offline
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Default 01-14-2021, 11:25 AM

Looks pretty good. I'd probably stick with map 1 for daily and map 2 for spirited driving as there are a couple minor corrections. Map 3 I'd limit use unless adding a bit more octane, maybe a bottle of octane booster?



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KnifeEdge87 KnifeEdge87 is offline
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Default 01-14-2021, 06:01 PM

I was thinking you could even go farther than map 3

Can get an EWG connection and go for a flatish 19to20psi map6 for more top end

Your map 3 is great with the exception of cyl1 taking a bit longer to add timing than the others (but sample size of 1 doesn't mean much)

Throttle opens up smooth, timing adds progressively

There's another user here on a 330i (b46 as he is in the United States) who is running ~flat 20 or 21psi with timing in the 14s and 15s (he has E85 available)

Check if you can get a ***** or high flow *** ******** and check if you have the opf/gpf in the midpipe. These are big flow restrictions in the exhaust (unfortunately to delete the opf/gpf you need to flash the dme which means bye bye warranty).
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leoffyddd leoffyddd is offline
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Default 01-14-2021, 06:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve @ BMS/Fuel-It!
Looks pretty good. I'd probably stick with map 1 for daily and map 2 for spirited driving as there are a couple minor corrections. Map 3 I'd limit use unless adding a bit more octane, maybe a bottle of octane booster?
Thank you, Steve!
Yea, I am also thinking about getting octane booster as a safety measure. However there so many products in the market claiming they can increase octane and I am not sure which one to get. I actually have easy access to Miller fuel additive which claims up to 2 octane increase. Would that small octane boost be enough or do I need a more aggressive product?
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leoffyddd leoffyddd is offline
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Default 01-14-2021, 06:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by KnifeEdge87
I was thinking you could even go farther than map 3

Can get an EWG connection and go for a flatish 19to20psi map6 for more top end

Your map 3 is great with the exception of cyl1 taking a bit longer to add timing than the others (but sample size of 1 doesn't mean much)

Throttle opens up smooth, timing adds progressively

There's another user here on a 330i (b46 as he is in the United States) who is running ~flat 20 or 21psi with timing in the 14s and 15s (he has E85 available)

Check if you can get a ***** or high flow *** ******** and check if you have the opf/gpf in the midpipe. These are big flow restrictions in the exhaust (unfortunately to delete the opf/gpf you need to flash the dme which means bye bye warranty).
Thank you, knifeEdge87!
My EWG wire is on the way. I am very interested in trying map6 once I install the EWG wire. Should I try out the numbers you posted in another thread for another 330 as a starting point?

I've read VipinLJ 's thread and I gotta say I'm jelly because pretty much no way for me to get E85.

Regarding the particulate filter, yes, I have a GPF in the midpipe. Since my car was built in last Sep. the DME is locked. I wont be able to delete the filter since the DME cant be flashed. I am also planning on getting a downp1pe with high flow ***. Just comparing different brands at the moment because the prices range from 5500rmb all the way up to 16000rmb...
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KnifeEdge87 KnifeEdge87 is offline
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Default 01-14-2021, 11:34 PM

i dont remember if there are emissions checks in china

in hong kong we only have to do it after the car is 7 years old so personally im considering getting a ******* ********

are you concerned about your warranty ? i think the DME can be bench unlocked if you find a shop that has the equipment (but you will lose warranty)



basically you have two routes open to you now

if you don't care about warranty the stuff you should do is

******** (either high flow or *******)
gpf delete
flash tune
WMI (this will necessitate changing the chargepipe, you can use JB4 as a controller)


If you DO care about your warranty
JUST JB4 for now


if your EWG hasn't arrived yet just keep it on map 3 for now, when vipin tried to use absolute target without it the results were very erratic.

once the ewg arrives start with;

1500 14
2000 15.5
2500 17
3000 18.5
3500 19
4000 19
4500 19
5000 19
5500 19
6000 18.5
6500 18
7000 17.5
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leoffyddd leoffyddd is offline
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Default 01-15-2021, 02:02 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by KnifeEdge87
i dont remember if there are emissions checks in china

in hong kong we only have to do it after the car is 7 years old so personally im considering getting a ******* ********

are you concerned about your warranty ? i think the DME can be bench unlocked if you find a shop that has the equipment (but you will lose warranty)



basically you have two routes open to you now

if you don't care about warranty the stuff you should do is

******** (either high flow or *******)
gpf delete
flash tune
WMI (this will necessitate changing the chargepipe, you can use JB4 as a controller)


If you DO care about your warranty
JUST JB4 for now


if your EWG hasn't arrived yet just keep it on map 3 for now, when vipin tried to use absolute target without it the results were very erratic.

once the ewg arrives start with;

1500 14
2000 15.5
2500 17
3000 18.5
3500 19
4000 19
4500 19
5000 19
5500 19
6000 18.5
6500 18
7000 17.5
Thanks a lot for your reply.

There is emission check but only when the car is 6 years old. Currently my DME is locked and cant be bench unlocked either. So a high flowed catted DP is what I want to do next. My FTP chargepipe is suitable for a WMI system but so far I just wanna stick to JB4 witout a WMI until I can get a proper flash tune.

My EWG just arrived and I will try to install it in the next couple days. After that I am gonna have some map6 logs for you to review.

Again, thank you very much!
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Default 01-15-2021, 02:18 AM

WMI doesn't really "need" a flash tune

you can set JB4 to apply more boost when WMI is on and itll still give results (of course as you mentioned a proper tune would be better)
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leoffyddd leoffyddd is offline
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Default 01-15-2021, 06:54 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by KnifeEdge87
WMI doesn't really "need" a flash tune

you can set JB4 to apply more boost when WMI is on and itll still give results (of course as you mentioned a proper tune would be better)
Yea, I understand that I can use WMI with JB4, I'm just worried all the tubes and whatnot might bring difficulties when it comes to warranty given my car is only 4 month old. With only a JB4 I can easily remove it prior to a service visit.

I am actually only looking for a moderate MAP 6 which could be better than other maps but nothing extreme. But again, I have no idea what JB4 is capable of and where B48TU's limits are. I simply wish everything would work properly during the summer
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Default 01-15-2021, 07:27 AM

Sure thing

19psi should be pretty safe and would be quite a boost on the top end.


Honestly the 330i doesn't have as much room in running as the B58 or 20i (B48B20B version) since the 30i is already quite stressed (it's the highest bmep of all the B series engines which is why I am not a big fan of increasing the bottom end)
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Default 01-15-2021, 10:07 AM

Yep, the 330i stock boost pressure is already quite high. In the mainland market there are actually 3 models (lets just forget about the long wheelbase ones)in the 3 series lineup, 320 325 and 330. Before last Dec. they all use the same engine, which is the one in the 330. 320 and 325 are just factory detuned and they have huge improvement headroom.

Anyway, I just got some map3 logs on my way home. I added Miller fuel additive into 98RON gas. It claims that it can add up to 2 octane and I wonder if the logs can reflect its actual usefulness.

I think the second log is when I accidentally triggered the kick down switch and it dropped to 2nd gear from 3rd.
Attached Files
File Type: csv P58_M3_R1_210115_235555.csv (10.1 KB, 6 views)
File Type: csv P58_M3_R1_210115_235736.csv (7.3 KB, 5 views)
File Type: csv P58_M3_R1_210115_235801.csv (6.0 KB, 5 views)

Last edited by leoffyddd; 01-15-2021 at 10:20 AM..
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KnifeEdge87 KnifeEdge87 is offline
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Default 01-15-2021, 10:22 AM

Yea this is absolutely fine

I've never really trusted octane booster to be honest with you.

Honestly I think it's bull**** snakeoil

Gasoline is a refined petroleum product with a mixture of hydrocarbons. Bad gas is better defined as presence of **** substances than a lack of good substances. Adding something to your gas (especially in such small proportion) and expecting it to magically increase your octane rating is like sprinkling icing sugar on top of horse**** and expecting it to become a birthday cake.
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KnifeEdge87 KnifeEdge87 is offline
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Default 01-15-2021, 10:41 AM

To be clear in not saying octane boosters do not exist because clearly they do (leaded gas and ethanol for example)

But the fact that these products are not related in nearly the same way that pump gas is and the lofty claims made while not being entirely transparent means that I'm still going to maintain with the tried and true ways of reducing knock (wmi and ethanol fuel)

The ones that work and have been well treated are so expensive that it's bordering on race gas territory. You will never run out on a regular basis so wmi is a much better option
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VipinLJ VipinLJ is offline
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Default 01-15-2021, 03:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by KnifeEdge87
To be clear in not saying octane boosters do not exist because clearly they do (leaded gas and ethanol for example)

But the fact that these products are not related in nearly the same way that pump gas is and the lofty claims made while not being entirely transparent means that I'm still going to maintain with the tried and true ways of reducing knock (wmi and ethanol fuel)

The ones that work and have been well treated are so expensive that it's bordering on race gas territory. You will never run out on a regular basis so wmi is a much better option
I tried using an octane booster once. I couldn't make out any difference. Which is why I went to E85 instead.


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KnifeEdge87 KnifeEdge87 is offline
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Default 01-15-2021, 07:40 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by VipinLJ
I tried using an octane booster once. I couldn't make out any difference. Which is why I went to E85 instead.
E85 costs how much relative to 93 vip?

Octane boosters make sense IF;

you are sure that specific product works (which without dyno time, or word of mouth from someone you really trust, your simply not going to know)

The combination of pump gas +octane booster costs less than the equivalent race gas or E85+93aki blend

Your taking it on track so you know the extra money you're spending is not money down the drain since you'll definitely be utilizing the extra performance on every gallon of fuel used


...


This is why I prefer wmi. Yes the system costs more to install but it ONLY turns on when your boat exceeds some predefined threshold and you can setup your jb4 to just add progressive boost for when the system is on. Don't get me wrong, you'll still need a separate tune to maximize the benefits of wmi but the jb4 wmi enables you to have a bit more fuzziness in the transition that a straight up race tune vs street tube doesn't
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KnifeEdge87 KnifeEdge87 is offline
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Default 01-15-2021, 07:41 PM

With all that said

In a perfect world you would do

Pump +e85+wmi+more capable intercooler +a lot of other stuff haha
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VipinLJ VipinLJ is offline
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Default 01-15-2021, 07:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by KnifeEdge87
With all that said

In a perfect world you would do

Pump +e85+wmi+more capable intercooler +a lot of other stuff haha
E85 where I'm at (Illinois) costs $1 less per gallon compared to 93. I have access to race gas too but it's expensive at around $7-8 per gallon. Plus they don't have it all the time. I've been wanting to try a mix of race gas and 93 octane but I don't know if it is safe or not. If it is, I'd like to try it some day. Obviously I wouldn't do a full tank since that will be almost $100-110 for a full tank compared to $45 or less for 93+e85.

Do you think it's okay if I try race gas? Will it be better than e85? I could always fill a couple of gallons (of race gas) per tank if that helps the engine. I think it's like 100-110 octane IIRC.


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KnifeEdge87 KnifeEdge87 is offline
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Default 01-15-2021, 08:09 PM

Here's the thing

To extract the max benefit we really need to get into proper tuning (which at the moment you're not willing to do)

So it really is kind of pointless.

We are just fiddling with boost now and while that can get a lot of benefit (as you have experienced) there are dinner details that need to be addressed that simply controlling the boost cannot achieve.

So to answer your question, it's like putting 93 in a corolla.. You could do it but there's really no point. E85 is already giving you naive benefit and you're doing it at concentrations which aren't really going to damage components which is very good already
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Default 01-15-2021, 09:04 PM

FYI you can buy e98 alcohol in 10x 2L jugs for about 160 RMB (25 USD) on Taobao, that what I do, I tried octane booster but they can damage your O2 sensor and also they are not as effective as even a 10-15% mix of alcohol in my experience, also they are costly

FYI 98RON gas costs about 7.5 RMB / L, and alcohol is about 8 RMB / L delivered to your door in 2L bottles, so it pretty much cost neutral, just a pain to do every fill up.

add in 4-6L to each fill up and you should see a noticeable improvement in your timing, and you can run more boost and be safe about it, much cheaper and more effective then octane booster, probably something like 100RON at 10% and at 25% like 104-105 RON

If your storing them in your trunk be safe about it, put them in a proper fuel can, or put them in a dry bag that is tied down.
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KnifeEdge87 KnifeEdge87 is offline
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Default 01-15-2021, 09:10 PM

Ah taobao

... Too bad shipping things to Hong Kong now is so difficult
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VipinLJ VipinLJ is offline
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Default 01-15-2021, 09:26 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by KnifeEdge87
Here's the thing

To extract the max benefit we really need to get into proper tuning (which at the moment you're not willing to do)

So it really is kind of pointless.

We are just fiddling with boost now and while that can get a lot of benefit (as you have experienced) there are dinner details that need to be addressed that simply controlling the boost cannot achieve.

So to answer your question, it's like putting 93 in a corolla.. You could do it but there's really no point. E85 is already giving you naive benefit and you're doing it at concentrations which aren't really going to damage components which is very good already
Absolutely. I understand what you're saying. I wasn't trying to extract more performance per se. Just wondering if race gas would help the engine better compared to E85. You've answered my question perfectly. :D


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KnifeEdge87 KnifeEdge87 is offline
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Default 01-16-2021, 06:38 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by VipinLJ
Absolutely. I understand what you're saying. I wasn't trying to extract more performance per se. Just wondering if race gas would help the engine better compared to E85. You've answered my question perfectly. :D
Given youíre getting better timing than a lot of stock b48 on 93aki gas while on 20psi flat, I think the benefit will be minimal =P

The throttling is something that would be nice to solve but Iím not really sure how to go about doing this on just jb4. If we can get the jb4 to underreport boost to the dme even more then perhaps we can get the dme to open the throttle but at the moment we arenít even getting manifold boost at our target. The thing is thereís no way I can think of to ďtellĒ jb4 how much to underreport boost.

A flash tune obviously solves all of these issues. I understand on your lease this isnít something you really want to attempt which is absolutely understandable.

If you would like you can try to shift the map6 targets down a half psi at a time to see if we can get the throttle to fully open up and boost2 figure higher (youíll need quite a bit of sample size to really see whether itís ďworkingĒ or not since butt dyno really isnít going to cut it).

At the end of the day your performance is really going to be linked to the boost2 field and timing. Donít be concerned if we achieve that by lowering map6 target.

On the other hand if lowering map6 target does not achieve any gain we can always go back to your current map6 targets.
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leoffyddd leoffyddd is offline
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Default 01-16-2021, 09:11 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by KnifeEdge87
Yea this is absolutely fine

I've never really trusted octane booster to be honest with you.

Honestly I think it's bull**** snakeoil

Gasoline is a refined petroleum product with a mixture of hydrocarbons. Bad gas is better defined as presence of **** substances than a lack of good substances. Adding something to your gas (especially in such small proportion) and expecting it to magically increase your octane rating is like sprinkling icing sugar on top of horse**** and expecting it to become a birthday cake.
Installed EWG wire and just managed to get 2 MAP6 logs, I would say they look pretty good, am I correct?

I also tried to test 0-100 km/h with this map6 and time increased from map3 5.31s to 5.75s. Somehow there is no log of this run.

Whats the next should I do? Ramp up the boost numbers? What about the other settings? Now they are all at default except boost numbers.
Attached Files
File Type: csv P58_M6_R1_210116_231342.csv (8.6 KB, 7 views)
File Type: csv P58_M6_R1_210116_231555.csv (8.1 KB, 6 views)

Last edited by leoffyddd; 01-16-2021 at 09:18 AM..
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leoffyddd leoffyddd is offline
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Default 01-16-2021, 09:32 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RMM
FYI you can buy e98 alcohol in 10x 2L jugs for about 160 RMB (25 USD) on Taobao, that what I do, I tried octane booster but they can damage your O2 sensor and also they are not as effective as even a 10-15% mix of alcohol in my experience, also they are costly

FYI 98RON gas costs about 7.5 RMB / L, and alcohol is about 8 RMB / L delivered to your door in 2L bottles, so it pretty much cost neutral, just a pain to do every fill up.

add in 4-6L to each fill up and you should see a noticeable improvement in your timing, and you can run more boost and be safe about it, much cheaper and more effective then octane booster, probably something like 100RON at 10% and at 25% like 104-105 RON

If your storing them in your trunk be safe about it, put them in a proper fuel can, or put them in a dry bag that is tied down.
Holy cow, is that the right way to have my own Exx fuel? I dont have a single clue about it but that sounds kinda scary to me lol
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KnifeEdge87 KnifeEdge87 is offline
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Default 01-16-2021, 09:50 AM

You're not getting anything closer to the commanded level of boost.

Sure everything is installed correctly?
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