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Terry @ BMS's Avatar
Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
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Default PTF's bogus test results - 02-15-2015, 08:32 PM

Hey guys,

I normally try to avoid replying to these sorts of things. But, I just read some JB4 test results performed by a competitor that are obliviously flawed. So much so I'm sort of shocked they are posting them with a straight face. So I want to clear the air on them. As a preface I've noticed a common trend of tuners doing "comparison" tests against the JB4, supposedly talented tuners, who suddenly go stupid when dealing with the JB4 and "accidentally" set something wrong without realizing it. I wonder why that is.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1091724

The problem with these specific results are the JB4 was set for overly conservative tuning. They set the JB4 to non-default mode 4/2, ignore flash boost targets, and tested maps 1 & 2. Which as of that old firmware version were 13psi & 14.5psi respectively. Given the low timing of the back end flash these two maps resulted in weaker HP output as expected. With such low timing you need to get boost over 16psi to just break even on power vs the OEM flash. The settings they used are what you'd do on a road race course or somewhere you wanted to be very conservative with low boost and low timing. If they had the correct settings both maps 1 & 2 would have put down 15-17psi peak with normal power levels.

Then they did a run in map 5, the auto-tuning map, and power started to come up. But it would take several runs to get map 5 to learn up to its full target. Clearly they didn't do enough pulls on that map to allow it to learn up to the low timing back end flash map they added.

Typically, a car with those mods, running pump gas, on the JB4 with a back end flash, will hit 400whp.

Regarding their claims of magic fueling and VANOS changes with their locked flash tuning, in my opinion, it's all bull. The fueling and VANOS changes in the back end flash map are about as good as it gets there. They talk about that stuff, without logs to quantify their discussion, to distract from the only two things that matter in these sorts of tests. Boost & timing advance.


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BostonBeemah's Avatar
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Default 02-15-2015, 10:05 PM

Just read over the thread. Hard to believe people fall for that crap when there are so many proven dynos and time slips proving how the JB truly performs as opposed to believing results that a competing company are claiming to make.


2010 AW/BLK 135i VM 6465 Single Turbo, JB4 + MHD, VRSF CP & Tial, Big Tom, Fuel-It PI + Stage 3 + Return + Ethanol Sensor, BMW PE, MFactory LSD & Axles, Spec 3+ & MFactory SMFW, RB External PCV
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Peter @ Pure's Avatar
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Default 02-15-2015, 10:48 PM

Sucks to see that kind of stuff posted. Anyways i know what my car does with jb4 performance wise. Jb4 FTW


F21 M140i - 100-200: 5.18 60-130: 5.96
Audi TTRS - 100-200: 4.01 60-130: 4.5
F80 M3 - 100-200: 4.32, 60-130: 4.8
F20 M135i (sold) - 100-200: 6.26 , 60-130: 7.4
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Default 02-15-2015, 10:48 PM

I feel another tuning war coming on (just like RB vs VTT)


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Cloud9Blue Cloud9Blue is offline
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Default 02-15-2015, 10:49 PM

Good to know, I almost bought it. Guess I won't believe any dyno chart in the future without data log of any sort. However, it was weird that their map 1 and 2 only made 340ish whp with a FBO car. While my car, also a RWD AT, made 330whp on dynojet when it was completely stock running just map 1 and pump flash back in the days.


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Payam @ BMS's Avatar
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Default 02-15-2015, 11:47 PM

LOL I really was not expecting that low blow from PTF. Comparing tunes from something that was obviously made to be maxed out vs, some OTS maps that werent even calibrated correctly.


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It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 02-16-2015, 12:21 AM

I saw it and plan on responding....Terry, if you like pm me a response and I will post it


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Bowser330 Bowser330 is offline
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Default 02-16-2015, 12:33 AM

You offer custom tuning capabilities to your customers and the thanks you get is competitors using those custom parameters to do bogus comparisons....damn sorry Terry
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Wedge1967 Wedge1967 is offline
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Default 02-16-2015, 12:35 AM

Thanks for pointing this out Terry. I wanted to raise a big red flag but Jason busted our balls on E90 last month so now vendors who don't have a vested interest in a thread can no longer post in another vendors thread.
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GManuel11 GManuel11 is offline
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Default 02-16-2015, 12:43 AM

We've all seen what JB equipped cars can do when tuned properly, so it is very disappointing to see them post something like that.
PTF makes great tunes, and I've been planning on going to them when I get my RB's installed. However, after seeing their misleading post, my confidence in them is somewhat shaken. Honesty is the most important thing for me when I'm doing business with people.
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Peter @ Pure's Avatar
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Default 02-16-2015, 12:49 AM

I did make a nice post as well


F21 M140i - 100-200: 5.18 60-130: 5.96
Audi TTRS - 100-200: 4.01 60-130: 4.5
F80 M3 - 100-200: 4.32, 60-130: 4.8
F20 M135i (sold) - 100-200: 6.26 , 60-130: 7.4
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Default 02-16-2015, 12:55 AM

Funny thing is he only posted it on E90 and not on BB. Turning the guns off of us and now shooting at BMS is a sign of a desperate company. I'm glad this stuff is only a hobby for Ken and myself


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Stucks Stucks is offline
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Default 02-16-2015, 04:08 AM

You guys have to realize, now that jake has left ptf, the struggle for business is real lol. People will do/post whatever they can to fool the masses if it will keep them afloat and bring them business....especially when they now have a new competitor to deal with (wedge/bq) in addition to the established competition (burger/jb4). I cant say I didn't see this coming lol.


Current: 2008 e92 335i coupe.

Previous: 2003 Honda Accord V6 coupe: AEM V2, zex 75 wet shot (sold)
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1slowN55 1slowN55 is offline
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Default 02-16-2015, 06:14 AM

Isn't 330-340whp what a N55 makes on pump gas Map 2? I like a good flash tune but I doubt PTF would've squeezed 400whp out of my N55 like JB4 has. Now all I need is a BE flash to bring AFR down a little and my car will be a perfect thanks to JB4.

I always hated Piggyback style tunes especially on my diesel trucks but JB4 truly is a whole new level of tuning


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Default 02-16-2015, 06:44 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CHECKERED
I feel another tuning war coming on (just like RB vs VTT)
It's tough at times to see BS tossed about making bogus innuendo based claims. Sometimes you have to just clear it up at the root.


See www.rbturbo.com for N54 Twin Turbo Bolt-On upgrades, or contact directly 314-630-8950 rob.rbturbo@gmail.com for a price quote.
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Default 02-16-2015, 06:56 AM

I posted a link to this thread on their 1addicts post. Potential customers should be able to see both points of view.
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Default 02-16-2015, 07:08 AM

added my post with logs for JB4 + Cobb stack to the post.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...1&postcount=24
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Default 02-16-2015, 08:05 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stucks
You guys have to realize, now that jake has left ptf, the struggle for business is real lol. People will do/post whatever they can to fool the masses if it will keep them afloat and bring them business....especially when they now have a new competitor to deal with (wedge/bq) in addition to the established competition (burger/jb4). I cant say I didn't see this coming lol.
+1
I knew that thread was BS the second I read it. Speaks of desperation.


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Wedge1967 Wedge1967 is offline
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Default 02-16-2015, 08:24 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by _ink
added my post with logs for JB4 + Cobb stack to the post.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...1&postcount=24
Not sure what your point is with your post. Everyone knows that a good back end flash will make good looking logs and a fast car. Just ask @RobC1976. His car was stupid fast on JB4/Wedge flash.

Don't get me wrong, your logs look great for a one gear pull... but you don't need COBB to make good looking logs... The fact that PTF is grasping for straws is a good indication things are not going well. Their is a reason they didn't post logs. Same reason they didn't show timing on their self proclaimed stock frame world torque record on BB. They made an extra 9 whp... hahahaha
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protuning freaks protuning freaks is offline
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Default 02-16-2015, 08:28 AM

Its quite unfortunate that we see Terry you've gone to the length you've gone to not block but HIDE all my posts on this forum. I posted this earlier only to realize that when I'm logged out I wouldn't see my post come up. You're a class act.
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trebila trebila is offline
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Default 02-16-2015, 08:43 AM

Dzenno

I don't know which backend flash you used (low load or new updated high load).

everybody here know that when you run a high load backend flash, which is the case with the new BMS backend flash since 2015/1/1, you have to set your JB4 menu 4/2 to ignore DME boost targets, as high load backend flash could lead to higher boost targets than JB4 boost targets.

by setting 4/2 and selecting map 1 or map 2, the boost targets were the one of the JB4 map 1 and 2 (ie. 13psi and 14.5psi), whatever DME boost targets you set on the backend flash.

but you're right, the JB4 steering wheel guide needs to be updated, and obviously is not clear.


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protuning freaks protuning freaks is offline
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Default 02-16-2015, 08:52 AM

We took whatever was latest posted including firmware, UI and backend flash.

Look, again, our post isn't meant to bash but its literally bs to read this nonsense by Terry when all we have done is put the car on the dyno with a JB on it to get a sense of numbers.

I am sure in the next iteration of our dyno tuning if we do our own backend flash with a JB on top to run a boost curve everyone here would be quiet because we now have a JB in the mix. Ridiculous. Its a boost controller and boost is one of 3-4 key variables so its important naturally lol
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Terry @ BMS's Avatar
Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
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Default 02-16-2015, 08:59 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by trebila
Dzenno

I don't know which backend flash you used (low load or new updated high load).

everybody here know that when you run a high load backend flash, which is the case with the new BMS backend flash since 2015/1/1, you have to set your JB4 menu 4/2 to ignore DME boost targets, as high load backend flash could lead to higher boost targets than JB4 boost targets.
Using 4/2 give you the JB4 boost targets. Which is fine for the high advance OEM flash. When using a low timing flash like our pump flash then you use 4/3, the default setting, which ensures boost stays above 16psi down low per the flash load targets. Alternatively you can use 4/2 but manually set higher boost targets in map 6. Map 5 also can function OK with 4/2 as it will naturally raise its boost target to take advantage of the lower advance but it takes a few pulls to do so.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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protuning freaks protuning freaks is offline
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Default 02-16-2015, 09:00 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wedge1967
Not sure what your point is with your post. Everyone knows that a good back end flash will make good looking logs and a fast car. Just ask @RobC1976. His car was stupid fast on JB4/Wedge flash.

Don't get me wrong, your logs look great for a one gear pull... but you don't need COBB to make good looking logs... The fact that PTF is grasping for straws is a good indication things are not going well. Their is a reason they didn't post logs. Same reason they didn't show timing on their self proclaimed stock frame world torque record on BB. They made an extra 9 whp... hahahaha
When is your 3rd day on the dyno? Lol ever sign up for that EFI 101 course?

I heard you pushed some kids car with the throttle safety off witjout his knowledge and he crashed his car yesterday? Not cool
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Terry @ BMS's Avatar
Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
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Default 02-16-2015, 09:01 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by protuning freaks
Its quite unfortunate that we see Terry you've gone to the length you've gone to not block but HIDE all my posts on this forum. I posted this earlier only to realize that when I'm logged out I wouldn't see my post come up. You're a class act.
Your other account may have been muted at some point. When someone sets that then all your posts are there but only show to moderators until someone approves them. It's nothing I've done recently to your account so its probably been that way a long time.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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