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Default 535xi, Fuel-it stage 2 upgrade installed... walk-thru and 1st impressions - 11-24-2014, 09:08 AM

Hey all, I've been working with Steve, to test the new Stage 2 kits he's been so graciously working on for us 5 series guys.

I'm in MN so weather here hasnt cooperated the best for pulls, quality e85 (now e70) and even to find time to get the unit installed.

Yesterday morning however, I was able to get it done.
I took pics along the way, however I ran into a few issues and being pre-occupied trying to focus on the install,I forgot to document all of it in pics but can likely still describe the job well enough for the rest of you on this journey.

Tools required:
This swap is actually pretty simple and takes minimal tools.

10mm socket and wrench or similar to remove the pump and filter covers.

Steve has a fantastic lock ring tool available which I highly suggest. makes it a snap removing the rings.

Or, a small mallet and long flat head to slowly tap the ring loose can be used, but not nearly as efficient as the tool mentioned above.

Next penetrating oil may help is un-sticking the lock rings if they have never been moved before (ask me how I know)

Small flat head screwdriver or similar to help press the release tab and separate the fuel return lines in the tank.

Obliviously being prepared for this project is key so here are a few things you may not think of prior to doing this job:

1st step, should be obvious, but make sure you run down the fuel in your tank as low as possible to lessen the chance for mess.

2nd step, work in a well ventilated area, have plenty of rags or towels to catch drips and spills.

3rd once you've unlock the car and have it in position, remove your key and put it somewhere safe out of range so it doesnt trigger the fuel pump to prime the system

Lastly a shop vac or similar. You wouldn't believe the mess I found under the seat cushion...

Images are full res so I am linking instead of embedding

Onto the project:

remove any car seats, or items that would limit your working space, and the ability to remove the seat cushion, simply pull up on the front edge and it should release easily, take car to unplug any rear seat warmer wires which are at each side right next to the doors. Lift the seat up and out, sliding the seatbelt receives out of their holes.


http://i.imgur.com/iKiNdKl.jpg


Hoepfully yours will look nice and clean like this with the seat removed:

http://i.imgur.com/nV2uu3B.jpg

I have kids however and spent several minutes vacuuming up Cheerios and fruit snacks that somehow missed their mouths. Did find almost 2 bucks in change too Bonus!

Next peel up the foam rubber insulator and expose the pump and filter covers.

http://i.imgur.com/UpHb9Tt.jpg


on the passenger side , there are wires leading to the pump assembly that will need to be loosened from their various wire ties to lift the insulator pad.

Roll the pad back towards the seat back and secure so it doesn't obstruct your access to the pump and filter openings.


With the 10mm socket, remove the covers from both sides and set aside.

http://i.imgur.com/wOOUIxm.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/P8zLrLa.jpg

unplug the electrical harness from the passenger side (this is the pump side), the connector has a slide towards that moves torward the front of the car then pull up.

http://i.imgur.com/eD4Pug7.jpg

then move onto the passenger side , make sure you have a rag handy to catch any fuel that may still be pressurized in the line, pinch the quick connector on the tabs and gently pull up. place rag to catch any fuel and give it a few moments to stop dripping then set the connector aside to allow ring removal.

http://i.imgur.com/wOOUIxm.jpg


Using Steves lock ring removal tool remove the rings from each side, and set aside. (here is where you can also use a penetrating oil to help ease removal as they can stick and forcing them will break the housing)

http://i.imgur.com/JRph8OO.jpg



My pictures end about here for the install as its a major pita from this point on (at least for me it was) as I broke my stock housing taking the ring off and forcing it rather than using a lubricant to help it slide.

The new assembly from Steve showing both the pump (on the right) and the filter assembly (left)



http://i.imgur.com/1A6zplr.jpg

I will walk you through the rest of the install without pictures and hopefully you can follow along. The isnt all that "hard" per-se but its a pita, as the lines are semi rigid and need to be fed over the drive-shaft hump in the tank and through a relatively small opening, hopefully your arms are smaller than mine so you can fit your arm and the lies in the opening to maneuver the lines.


Towels would be handy at this point as your going to have some fuel in the filter assembly and hoses spill out when removing.

Once open and rings are moved, gently raise the filter (drivers side) assembly up and out of the hole enough to access the electrical plug, the 2 quick disconnects (like what was on the top of the filter housing).
The last connection is part of the venturi, and is a bit tricky to remove, but there is a tab that can be pressed that will allow the lines to separate. I'll take a pic tonight of the process with the one I removed to give you an idea.

Once the filter housing has been disconnected, remove and set aside, the easy part is done.

Onto the pita part. Remember seeing those rigid lines above (the sames ones you just disconnected from the filter on the other side?? well they have to come out now along with the pump.

Towel alert!
The pump basket is designed to hold fuel around the pump for cooling and to prevent cavatation so it will be full of fuel. make sure you are careful here and dont spill it all over your interior.


Start by carefully lifting the pump assembly out of the hole, making sure not to snag the float arm. Once the pump is out, the lines will need to be pulled through the opening inside the tank over the hump.

If your arms are skinny enough, stick one in and feel where the lines lead to. Mine arms wouldn't fit with the lines in the hole too so I felt from the drivers side to see what i was working with.

the lines are semi rigid but do flex pretty good so don't be afraid of breaking them. fish them out over the hump and out of the tank.

Assembly is the reverse, I found I was able to get my are in the pump side enough to feed the lines up to the hole that crosses over and then from the drivers side pull them a bit at a time to get them through. Keep in mine unless you have small arms you'll have very little range of motion to manipulate the lines.

Once the lines were fed though, I reconnected the fittings, and the internal electrical connector again just the reverse of the removal, then refit the baskets and o-ring seals (didnt mention these on removal as you probably wont have to remove them as they sit into a recess and shouldn't come out) I just took mine out for inspection.

align the baskets as they were initially (you will notice a notch in the tank opening and alignment tab on the baskets pointing towards the rear of the car)
re-install the locking rings (may be wise to add a very little plastic friendly grease to this to ease removal next time), the quick connect fuel line and lastly the electrical connector.

Before replacing the access caps routing wires and reassembling the seat, I went and got my key from the house and let the system prime a few times by turning the ignition on to "run" (pressing the start button twice until all dash lights are on but didn't crank over) I then repeated this 2 more times to make sure the pump primed the lines. I then started the car and let idle for a few minutes to watch for any issues. The car stumbled a few times then idled better than before.

if you have an air compressor, might be a good idea to blow any creases or hard to reach areas where any fuel may have leaked to make sure its all dry
then reassemble the covers (make sure to reuse the small thin gaskets for the covers to keep fumes out of the car.)

re-position the wiring, the foam pad and the seat. You will likely smell fuel for a while if you spilled any into the cabin of the car like I did even with the towels.

If you are anywhere other than the tundra that is MN this time of year a day or two of leaving your windows down should clear the smell out.

being I was only running gas in the tank prior to install I did a quick log on the way to the gas station to watch the pumps performance:

http://i.imgur.com/KrvM93h.png

then of course top off the tank with about 9 gallons of quality winter blend e85 (e70 really this time of year)

http://i.imgur.com/Mm6GwtN.jpg


My math tells me i'm about 40% ethanol

time for some logging and maybe a backend flash once I know all is well.



I'll get some additional pics up of the individual connectors like I mentioned later today


Any questions, ask away I just completed this install yesterday so my memory should be fresh


Oh and thanks again Steve!
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Default 11-24-2014, 09:13 AM

quick log from my short commute this AM, will try and get a few more over lunch break if weather holds out and I can find some quiet co roads,
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Default 11-24-2014, 09:23 AM

Punctuation, spell-check and grammar obviously all fail me, so please forgive the mess of words above.
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Default 11-24-2014, 02:24 PM

Nice garage!

You need a flash....BADLY, your trims are OOC! Do not increase your mix until you do so.

Fueling looks good thus far.

Thanks for the write up and illustrations.

Name:  jeremy 1.jpg
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Default 11-24-2014, 02:39 PM

man I just re-read my post and ouch I missed on a lot of words. lol, I am sure you all can get the gist of what I tried to convey. Must have inhaled too many gas fumes during the install
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duracell8 duracell8 is offline
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Default 11-24-2014, 03:14 PM

is this a pre production unit? is it available for retail? how much? What is the power levels projected with E85?
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Default 11-24-2014, 03:36 PM

This is pre-production.

We have two in the field for testing at this time.

On stock turbos and E60...about 450whp give or take depending on mods, car to car variation, and location.

So far the LPFP looks very good and the 5 series guys will now have the same limitation everyone else has with a stock HPFP and no supplemental fueling.



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Last edited by Steve @ BMS/Fuel-It!; 11-24-2014 at 09:52 PM..
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Default 11-24-2014, 04:55 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwdominick
Punctuation, spell-check and grammar obviously all fail me, so please forgive the mess of words above.
Good looking out on all the pics, install info and testing. Much appreciated.


2009 535xi - JB4 G5 ISO -BMS Race Flash- BMS Intake - ER CP- Forge DVs- Active Autowerke intercooler- Gone

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Default 11-24-2014, 05:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveAZ
Nice garage!

You need a flash....BADLY, your trims are OOC! Do not increase your mix until you do so.

Fueling looks good thus far.

Thanks for the write up and illustrations.

Attachment 26030
Thanks Steve!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duperstar
Good looking out on all the pics, install info and testing. Much appreciated.
thank you as well
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Default 11-24-2014, 08:48 PM

When will this bad boy be released?
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Default 11-24-2014, 10:01 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by longnvu
When will this bad boy be released?
We want to continue monitoring results and will probably set a release date after the first of the year.

In the meantime, we will start sourcing a few core assemblies and build up a few ring removal tools.



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Default 11-25-2014, 07:53 AM

http://www.***********/u/ocean/111714...data=1-7-21-22

I'll get some E50 logs after Thanksgiving. Have a house full of people, so not ideal for playing with fuel systems and logs.
Seems to hold up pretty well on E30 and pushing close to 20 psi.
Stay tuned. E50 numbers should tell the story, I have high hopes.


Sleeper 5 series
Performance: Pro tuned MHD, xHP Stage 3 TCU flash, DCI, AR kittens, ER FMIC & CP, Fuel-It Stage 2 LPFP w ported rail, RB turbos, RB inlets, KW V2, Mfactory LSD
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Default 11-25-2014, 07:57 AM

Flashed the e85 back end flash last night but didnt get a chance to test the car after. I was able to get 3 decent pulls on the way in to work today however.
I think its still adapting. all afr and cps set to 0 as per the directions

feedback welcomed
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Default 11-25-2014, 07:58 AM

So is e50 gonna pretty much max out your RB's? Or is it still gonna require some meth if we want to get the full potential?


2010 535xi
ALL black, murdered out FBO jb4+flash
Fuel It! stage 2 LPFP on the way

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Default 11-25-2014, 09:03 AM

Once you run high concentrations of E85 there's not much to be gained from meth. I was going to use it with pump gas for times when I was out of E85 range, but in the end decided to simplify the set-up and sold the kit and tank.
With E50 I can target 21 psi boost and maybe 14.5 degree timing. But since my car is a DD I am not sure how much I would use that option. We'll see.
I did run E50 for a bit on an AEM 320 pump and the car felt super twitchy.


Sleeper 5 series
Performance: Pro tuned MHD, xHP Stage 3 TCU flash, DCI, AR kittens, ER FMIC & CP, Fuel-It Stage 2 LPFP w ported rail, RB turbos, RB inlets, KW V2, Mfactory LSD
Audio: Jehnert Flatline speakers, Mobridge M1000 DA2 digital preamp, Helix P-DSP, Zapco Z-150.6 amp, CIC iDrive upgrade
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Default 11-25-2014, 11:28 AM

Any plans for stage 3?
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Default 11-25-2014, 02:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwdominick
Flashed the e85 back end flash last night but didnt get a chance to test the car after. I was able to get 3 decent pulls on the way in to work today however.
I think its still adapting. all afr and cps set to 0 as per the directions

feedback welcomed
Trims look much better. Yes, you're right, it's still adapting as you were only hitting about 17psi.

You can definitely increase your E content now...

Quote:
Originally Posted by boosted5
Any plans for stage 3?
No....lets get through Stage 2. You will be HPFP limited with that. As of now unless you decide to remove your AC...you can't run a dual HPFP. In order to make use of all the LPFP capacity of a Stage 2 you'll have to do PI or something along those lines.



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Default 11-25-2014, 02:44 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveAZ
Trims look much better. Yes, you're right, it's still adapting as you were only hitting about 17psi.

You can definitely increase your E content now...



No....lets get through Stage 2. You will be HPFP limited with that. As of now unless you decide to remove your AC...you can't run a dual HPFP. In order to make use of all the LPFP capacity of a Stage 2 you'll have to do PI or something along those lines.
huh? we can't run dual HPFPs but we sure can run supplement port fuel injection... which does require a bit more output on the LPFP side of things..
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Default 11-25-2014, 03:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveAZ
Trims look much better. Yes, you're right, it's still adapting as you were only hitting about 17psi.

You can definitely increase your E content now...



No....lets get through Stage 2. You will be HPFP limited with that. As of now unless you decide to remove your AC...you can't run a dual HPFP. In order to make use of all the LPFP capacity of a Stage 2 you'll have to do PI or something along those lines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boosted5
huh? we can't run dual HPFPs but we sure can run supplement port fuel injection... which does require a bit more output on the LPFP side of things..
I think you may have missed part of my post. We are very familiar with PI, we have worked with both Motiv and BMS on it and are also working on another solution for those of you caught in the middle.

Stage 2 should flow enough for around 600whp on ethanol....far beyond your current HPFP's capacity.



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Video of our Stage 2 LPFP upgrade installation.

BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways.
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Default 11-25-2014, 06:32 PM

I'm running E40 or so on my stock pump (8 to 9 gallons of E85, the rest 93 oct). It's been running fine and I spray 100% meth as well with 14.5 deg timing. No timing drop and good logs. Is that mean I don't need this stage 2 unit? I'm not sure why my car could take more E than others.... not complaining or anything.


2008 535i 6MT * JB4 G5 ISO * Luke performance flash * E40 * BMS 100% Meth * AR meowless DP * ETS FMIC * BMS OCC * BMS DCI * ER chargepipe * HKS bov * CDV deleted * Ksport coilovers * UUC short shift kit * AC schnitzer rear spolier *
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Default 11-25-2014, 06:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkninja
I'm running E40 or so on my stock pump (8 to 9 gallons of E85, the rest 93 oct). It's been running fine and I spray 100% meth as well with 14.5 deg timing. No timing drop and good logs. Is that mean I don't need this stage 2 unit? I'm not sure why my car could take more E than others.... not complaining or anything.
You answered your own question.

You are supplying supplemental fueling and this reduces the strain on your fuel system.

If you plan on continuing to run Meth...no, you do not need Stage 2 unless your stock pump starts to fade or you decide to run more ethanol and your stock pump can no longer keep up.

Stage 2 is good for about 25% more flow than a good stock 5 series LPFP, however your HPFP has to be able to make use of that flow.

A stock high pressure system has a maximum amount of fuel it can provide. It doesn't matter if you install an LPFP that flows 500% more...if the HPFP can't make use of that flow potential, it's all for nothing. We just want to make sure we are utilizing all that high pressure potential.

Stage 2 is to fulfill three immediate needs.

1. That customer that wishes to run more ethanol but their LPFP can't supply enough fuel to the HPFP. Logs will indicate if this is the case.

2. Those who have a worn out LPFP and wish to install an E85 compatible solution.

3. The customers that have contacted us because they did an AEM pump upgrade that failed and they have been waiting for another solution.

If what you're doing is working for you....then I recommend sticking with that.



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Video of our Stage 2 LPFP upgrade installation.

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Default 11-25-2014, 07:01 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocean
Once you run high concentrations of E85 there's not much to be gained from meth. I was going to use it with pump gas for times when I was out of E85 range, but in the end decided to simplify the set-up and sold the kit and tank.
With E50 I can target 21 psi boost and maybe 14.5 degree timing. But since my car is a DD I am not sure how much I would use that option. We'll see.
I did run E50 for a bit on an AEM 320 pump and the car felt super twitchy.
What's up Peder. Glad to see the beast is back up and running. Hopefully the wagon is doing better too. If that pump has no problems with your E50 map it should have no problems handling the E50 map the guys made me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveAZ
Trims look much better. Yes, you're right, it's still adapting as you were only hitting about 17psi.

You can definitely increase your E content now...



No....lets get through Stage 2. You will be HPFP limited with that. As of now unless you decide to remove your AC...you can't run a dual HPFP. In order to make use of all the LPFP capacity of a Stage 2 you'll have to do PI or something along those lines.
Hi Steve, I wouldn't mind preordering a stg2 once peder's E50 log rolls in and looks good. Once again thanks for all the R&d you've put into figuring out our crazy E60 fuel system.


'09 AW 535i
-FBO w/custom Cobb E45 map, Fuel_it Stg2 LPFP and Performance Gearing LSD

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Default 11-25-2014, 07:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Booyaazaa
Hi Steve, I wouldn't mind preordering a stg2 once peder's E50 log rolls in and looks good. Once again thanks for all the R&d you've put into figuring out our crazy E60 fuel system.
No problem. I suspect Peder will be finding the limits of his HPFP somewhere between E40 and E50...especially given he is running RB's, is at sea level, and it's winter. By the looks of it thus far, I doubt the LPFP will have much of an issue with it.



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Video of our Stage 2 LPFP upgrade installation.

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Default 11-26-2014, 02:00 AM

I cant tell u guys how much I appreciate the research and development you guys have done for us e6X owners! (especially steve)

Add my name to the pre order list I want to get my hands on one of these pumps as soon as possible
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Default 11-26-2014, 07:45 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveAZ
I think you may have missed part of my post. We are very familiar with PI, we have worked with both Motiv and BMS on it and are also working on another solution for those of you caught in the middle.

Stage 2 should flow enough for around 600whp on ethanol....far beyond your current HPFP's capacity.
Great work! I did miss a part of your post but I guess what I should have asked was how much work is involved in getting a working 900whp () solution. ( dual e85 fuel pumps )
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