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titium titium is offline
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Default 07-04-2017, 06:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by TEC
I think you need to go back and re-read what he said. He said he didn't want to put PI on yet because he wanted to get dyno numbers without these aids. He also stated that his HPFP is dying above 22pi. If you compare his dyno chart to others running e30-e50 at 22psi his dyno numbers are worse than what has been posted on stock turbos. There is another site that keeps up with dyno numbers, if you check there you will see what I mean.
More then 520hp with stock turbos and without PI on e30? Bit optimistic don't you think?
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JuniorB JuniorB is offline
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Default 07-04-2017, 07:23 PM

These turbos are not competing with the 700club, but they are a robust turbo making good power without maxing the oems. If you read what the internals are made of compared to oem, and it's bigger more robust compressor wheel, why not run a set of these? No matter how you cut it, over a longer period, these will and make more power than the oem ones. It's only a matter of time when...
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N54QC N54QC is offline
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Default 07-05-2017, 04:38 PM

Personally I think it's a good start. When others start posting their dynos in the near future, I'm sure there will be several 600+ graphs. Just glad to finally see some results.
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terryd5150 terryd5150 is offline
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Default 07-09-2017, 01:29 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony@VargasTurboTech
Just hang tight. We have our new Stage 2, and 2+'s available now at basically the same price point. 100% assembled in house, tripled balanced (wheels are factory balanced, we then component balance, then after assembly we high speed balance. We have shipped almost 20 sets in the past 2 weeks. I say hang tight, because even though they are available, we have a results thread coming, and a corresponding group buy, that will beat any pricing currently on the N54 market for turbos that can support 500-700WHP. Keep in mind these turbos are 100% brand new, not a single part is reused from a core N54 unit.
Very interesting.
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JuniorB JuniorB is offline
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Default 07-09-2017, 09:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by terryd5150
Very interesting.
+1
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DennisPacMo DennisPacMo is offline
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Default 07-11-2017, 10:07 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JuniorB
These turbos are not competing with the 700club, but they are a robust turbo making good power without maxing the oems. If you read what the internals are made of compared to oem, and it's bigger more robust compressor wheel, why not run a set of these? No matter how you cut it, over a longer period, these will and make more power than the oem ones. It's only a matter of time when...
The first beta set did 696 on E85 with a Fuel It TBI kit, TFT inlets,
AMS intercooler, VRSF **'s and a Stage 3 clutch with SMF from MFactory. Starving for fuel at that point. Pretty sure we will see 700


.
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mrmax1984 mrmax1984 is offline
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Default 07-11-2017, 10:49 AM

From what I've read between these two threads, it would seem that fueling is the first hurdle that you'll run into even with the OEM turbos. That being said, wouldn't it then follow that any set of aftermarket turbos would tap out at similar power levels? Granted, the curves might look different, but the end results would be more or less the same.

At first I (and many others) in the thread were excited to see numbers without supplemental fueling, meth, etc, because of the thought of seeing significant power increases with minimal supporting mods.

However, I think the fueling issue makes that a moot point, right? If I'm understanding correctly, the point of these turbos is to have stock fitment and look, while having lots more headroom with the addition of supplemental fueling, E85, and/or methanol.

Is that more or less the gist of it?
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Sabre Sabre is offline
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Default 07-11-2017, 11:14 AM

So these turbos still expected to drop next year at some point, yes ��
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LazYME870 LazYME870 is offline
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Default 07-11-2017, 02:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmax1984
From what I've read between these two threads, it would seem that fueling is the first hurdle that you'll run into even with the OEM turbos. That being said, wouldn't it then follow that any set of aftermarket turbos would tap out at similar power levels? Granted, the curves might look different, but the end results would be more or less the same.

At first I (and many others) in the thread were excited to see numbers without supplemental fueling, meth, etc, because of the thought of seeing significant power increases with minimal supporting mods.

However, I think the fueling issue makes that a moot point, right? If I'm understanding correctly, the point of these turbos is to have stock fitment and look, while having lots more headroom with the addition of supplemental fueling, E85, and/or methanol.

Is that more or less the gist of it?
Thats pretty much the gist of it to me. I was hoping to get to around low 500hp with just E85 and 91 octane mix, and I knew if I wanted to go any higher I would need to supplement the fuel system. You might make a little more power with a different turbo with the same setup as me, before supplementing the fuel system, but at this time you'd also pay $1000+ more for the turbos as far as I know. I think at $1999 for these turbos, it's a great value for your money, you can use the money you save for the Install, or use the savings towards a Port Injection Kit.
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Sabre Sabre is offline
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Default 07-12-2017, 07:29 AM

Assuming they ever get released, and performed I would agree that it wouldn't be a bad value for $$$. At least this was the case when comparing to the turbos available when talk about these started. They were supposed to be bailable by summer and she'll midway through no update. One of the testers who was waiting on a set was told that the chra had to be improved due to oil starvation issues or so say the rumors. I had high hopes and definitely would have purchased, but given no updates and since they weren't release when it was hoped. I went with another vendor.
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Default 07-12-2017, 12:36 PM

These turbos may be taking longer to produce than he expected but at the end of the day all he wants is a quality turbo replacement to last for the years to come. For those who can't wait, so be it. For those who are, they will be worth it. Quality> Release Date
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Cloud9Blue Cloud9Blue is offline
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Default 07-12-2017, 05:02 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by tim603
These turbos may be taking longer to produce than he expected but at the end of the day all he wants is a quality turbo replacement to last for the years to come. For those who can't wait, so be it. For those who are, they will be worth it. Quality> Release Date
lol sure...


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Default Is Methanol "All That"? - 07-15-2017, 07:05 PM


Beta testing of our F21Bi turbos is continuing, with solid feedback from our testers that’s going to make these FrankenTurbos unbeatable for reliability. While design and product quality are being put through the paces I decided to use our own test car to do a bit more fueling experimentation.

For a long time I’ve been interested in methanol’s combustion properties. Of course it's got a terrific octane number, but a stoichiometric burn with methanol actually produces a higher “Net Energy” than not only gasoline, but ethanol as well. According to that article I’ve linked, where ethanol will produce 24,400 BTUs for a given amount of air, methanol can develop 27,650 BTUs. That’s a difference of over 10%. And if that value can translate into horsepower on the street, then methanol is worth exploring.

To do that, we settled on a port-injection arrangement. And one very cost-effective means for port injection is the inexpensive sheet-metal intake manifold recently developed by Sharp Customs.

https://sharpcustomperformance.com/s...t-metal-intake

This manifold has bungs and a fuel rail suited to short injectors such as the Bosch EV14xT variants. We selected these, part number 0280158038.




Here they are fitted to the intake manifold:






But since these injectors are destined to be supplied by whatever's in the fuel tank, we needed to modify our new manifold to accept a separate set of traditional water methanol nozzles. The methanol will have its own system, keeping that nasty corrosive fuel away from the stock system.




Six Devils Own D04 injectors




The methanol system gets its own tiny manifold, splitting out the fuel to each nozzle. Because we’re working with an undiluted mixture, everything is braided stainless.




Upon installation of the hardware, we found an immediate problem with the pump. It couldn’t supply anywhere near the flow necessary for a meaningful quantity of methanol per cylinder. A single Devil’s Own pump couldn’t produce more than 30psi of line pressure with 2000+ cc of nozzle capacity downstream.

So we tried ganging a second pump. Here they are in series, although we tried them in parallel as well.




Still no go. Pressure to the nozzles remained only a hair above the manifold pressure in the runners. We needed more pump. For that we turned to a company whose pumps we’ve known since our days on the VW 1.8T engine. Pumptec. Here’s their high-flow pump after we replaced the twin Devils Own units.




And here is a comparison of the two systems’ performance. The single Pumptec holds pressure much better than a pair of Devils Own units.




And the amperage draw is easily supported by the Torqbyte pump controller. It’s rated for 20 amps. We’re well under that.






Here are more data from logs with the system running at a fairly conservative 500-ish wheel torque level.






As you can see, the DME is struggling to modulate fuel mixtures (Lambdas). The nice smooth Lambda values we saw on pure ethanol are gone. And after a bunch of time trying to kill that irregularity happening at boost onset, we bailed out on the port injection approach. Heck, this aluminum manifold can be machined just about anywhere for WMI ports, so we blocked of the 6 runners and went with just a pair of nozzles right after the throttle body.




The fueling data looked much better. And the twin nozzles were still pouring a ton of methanol into the system. 2200cc worth.

The next step was to test. Would an increased ratio of methanol into the E85 fuel mixture generate more power? We headed with the car to the dyno to find out.

We chose a moderate 14psi boost level for this testing. And then did pulls with the E85 progressively dialed back and the methanol increased. Here are the data logs showing all controls for a comparison between a 40% solenoid duty and 80%.




Aside from the improved pressure values in the High Pressure Fuel Rail, all else was kept consistent. No variations in boost, timing or fuel mixtures from pull to pull. Disappointingly, there wasn’t really any variation in the power either.




With ~350cc of methanol being injected per cylinder, this is a high enough ratio for the fuel’s superior net energy value to show itself. It doesn’t. So either we blast so much methanol that the stock fuel injectors are basically off, or we give up on methanol as some kind of “secret sauce” for power.

Not that E85 is a slouch. And not that 480whp is embarrassing. For 14psi of boost, the two fuels make good power.

Before unstrapping the car I quickly adjusted the boost level settings in the JB4 to see what a higher boost pull would net.

Logs of 18psi:




Results:




560whp. And without going much above 500 wheel torque. The “Stock Plus” 335is clutch can live with that. And certainly 18psi is a very reasonable boost level for component protection all around the car. And better still: that 560whp is on stock downp1pes with unmodified catalytic converters. That’s a win for anyone with aspirations of power glory but tempered by environmental awareness.

Next up: a new clutch, restoring the VRSF downp1pes …and more boost.

Thanks

Doug Harper
FrankenTurbo



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Default 07-15-2017, 07:14 PM



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artsoasis artsoasis is offline
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Default 07-20-2017, 09:51 AM

where to buy and price?
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Default Twin Disk Cometh - 07-24-2017, 06:51 PM


What clutch to buy? Well, considering the big-powah future in store for the car we went aggressive: an MFactory un-sprung twin disk clutch. Michael Yip there was very helpful and fast with shipping. So in it goes…



With the drivetrain now able to support above 500whtq, the fueling system got some attention as well, with a SplitSec AIC1-V6 controller for the port-injection fuel rail. As shown in our earlier testing, the injectors we selected are the “Extended Tip” Bosch EV14 variety, flowing a modest 380cc @ 4bar. We turned off the water methanol in the Torqbyte controller and let the SplitSec take charge.

Here are some initial logs at a cautious ~20psi.

From the JB4 Controller:




From the SplitSec Controller:




The injectors at the fuel rail have their own dedicated pump in line downstream of the Fuel-It! Bucketless pump in the tank. For that duty we installed a Deatschwerks 250-series unit.



The inline pump’s purpose is solely to ensure fuel pressure 4bar above the boost pressure in the manifold plenum. So the Fuel-It! Pump downstream in the tank is doing all the heavy lifting. And at 20psi of boost, it’s hanging in there like a champion. We’ll make some more adjustments to the port injection system’s mapping to buck up the high pressure fuel pump and then keep raising the boost.


Thx

Doug Harper
FrankenTurbo



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dyezak dyezak is offline
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Default 07-24-2017, 07:05 PM

You are running a 450lph pump in the tank pushing through an external 255lph pump?
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arhoads335i arhoads335i is offline
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Default 07-25-2017, 06:25 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dyezak
You are running a 450lph pump in the tank pushing through an external 255lph pump?
I think he is using it for the port injection
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AbacusRacingN54 AbacusRacingN54 is offline
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Default 07-25-2017, 08:51 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dyezak
You are running a 450lph pump in the tank pushing through an external 255lph pump?
It makes it a 705lph yo. This thread is filled with questionable data and ideas
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Cloud9Blue Cloud9Blue is offline
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Default 07-25-2017, 11:23 AM

if you are dumb enough to buy from a vendor who makes threads like this, it is really not anyone else's problem but your own...


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BMW35 BMW35 is offline
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Default 07-26-2017, 07:49 AM

That is a very nice looking piece of technology!


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Default N54 Boost Control Vacuum Signal Testing - 08-06-2017, 05:46 PM



22psi from 3000 RPMs out to redline. Pretty good. But what is the JB4 boost controller actually doing to get this supersexy performance from our turbos? To answer that question we fit a vacuum pressure transducer to the test car's Torqbyte controller.

And then we ran some tests. First we confirmed the digital transducer with an old-school analog gauge:




Then we did a pull measuring the vacuum signal coming straight off the pump.




The vacuum pump more or less holds all the way past redline. So we have a good pump. But what about the parts downstream? Our car has one control solenoid deleted and a single, modified vacuum canister.




Here are the vacuum levels the system holds when boosting 22psi




A slight drop in the system vacuum while the solenoid is active. But -26inHg of vacuum capacity is nothing to complain about.

Next we measured the vacuum values being sent by the solenoid to the turbos. Here is an overlay of the vacuum versus the boost duty (PWM) sent by the JB4 controller:




And here are the three vacuum measurements in one chart.




The three measurements are getting very near to one another at the top end, indicating the turbos are approaching their maximum. But 22+psi at the top end is very respectable considering the ignition advance being run at the same time:




Thx

Doug Harper
FrankenTurbo



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Default 08-06-2017, 05:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud9Blue
if you are dumb enough to buy from a vendor who makes threads like this, it is really not anyone else's problem but your own...
Priceless.


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JuniorB JuniorB is offline
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Default 08-07-2017, 02:24 AM

Just curious about something, does this seem like a lot of fuel to pumping into each cylinder to obtain 550hp? I thought the port injection was to eliminate the water/ meth? Now I know some go either way for extra fueling, but this is a lot of fuel, and knowing it's all burning,nothing going past the rings and diluting the oil,does this seem excessive? I would hate a misfire and all that fuel end up in a cylinder. I could see running all that fuel for 700hp, but for 550, is it nessary? Who else is running this on there turbos with this hp figure?
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ShocknAwe ShocknAwe is offline
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Default 08-07-2017, 07:08 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by doug@frankenturbo.com
Priceless.
I'm concerned that you answer negative posts with taunting remarks but have no concern or response when folks post questions or ask for details on your product or goals.

Continuously gives me pause on taking you seriously. I dare you to prove me wrong.


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