N54Tech.com - International Turbo Racing Discussion
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crazyyardie crazyyardie is offline
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Default 09-11-2017, 05:03 AM

Is there any downside to setting menu 10 @ 5000rpm I have fresh stage 1 turbos with upgraded wastegates

Menu 12 is at 2800rpm but I realize that at part throttle going to full throttle. The car would overboost and then settles at pre set boost levels. Should I try going down on the value to 2600rpm or should I go up with it 3000 rpm
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dubluv17 dubluv17 is offline
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Default 09-18-2017, 01:08 PM

Here's my experience with menu 11:

When I was looking into these settings, I kept seeing suggestions to have a high setting here. So I initially set it to 5000. At the time, I had made many other changes to the car as well (BEF, E85 map, then new experimental changes to maps 10, 11 and 12). I noticed how my car became increasingly more difficult to start smoothly from a stop. I was having issues engaging first gear from a stop, as well as shifting smoothly into second gear. Once, I got into first gear, it seemed like the car would go from kinda laggy to boosting with the same throttle input. In other words, the car would just kinda take off out of nowhere. Very hard to control. I'd also been driving an old manual 4runner a lot, so switching between the cars was weird enough to warrant poor clutch work/shifting. Anyways, it was finally bugging me enough that I buckled down and started looking into it more. I decided that it was within map 11, and it was. Here's my advice to people that are experiencing power delivery issues in first and second gear.

1. Log your throttle input when casually driving. Do this from a stop, and also through your gears. For me, I was expecting much lower throttle percentage numbers than I was actually getting. This helped me understand the map 11 settings better.
2. Look at the attached image, and pick a setting slightly above what you calculated your average 'partial throttle' input to be. For me, I think it was around 17-20. I'm still dialing mine in. The image helps visualize the range of settings and how they affect boost.
3. Once you have a starting point established, do some driving and adjust from there. Remember that throttle is an active system that adjusts independently of your input. This is why it's important to log the throttle while testing.

I ended up setting mine to 3000, atm, and it's much easier to control casual starts and 1-2 shifting. Anyways, just my .02. Some people like 5000, obviously, so it's all up to you.
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Last edited by dubluv17; 09-18-2017 at 03:59 PM.. Reason: forgot something
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vwetish vwetish is offline
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Default 09-18-2017, 03:49 PM

Per BMS recommended is 0 for menu 11
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crazyyardie crazyyardie is offline
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Default 09-18-2017, 03:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dubluv17
Here's my experience with menu 11:

When I was looking into these settings, I kept seeing suggestions to have a high setting here. So I initially set it to 5000. At the time, I had made many other changes to the car as well (BEF, E85 map, then new experimental changes to maps 10, 11 and 12). I noticed how my car became increasingly more difficult to start smoothly from a stop. I was having issues engaging first gear from a stop, as well as shifting smoothly into second gear. I'd also been driving an old manual 4runner a lot, so switching between the cars was weird enough to warrant poor clutch work/shifting. Anyways, it was finally bugging me enough that I buckled down and started looking into it more. I decided that it was within map 11, and it was. Here's my advice to people that are experiencing power delivery issues in first and second gear.

1. Log your throttle input when casually driving. Do this from a stop, and also through your gears. For me, I was expecting much lower throttle percentage numbers than I was actually getting. This helped me understand the map 11 settings better.
2. Look at the attached image, and pick a setting slightly above what you calculated your average 'partial throttle' input to be. For me, I think it was around 17-20. I'm still dialing mine in. The image helps visualize the range of settings and how they affect boost.
3. Once you have a starting point established, do some driving and adjust from there. Remember that throttle is an active system that adjusts independently of your input. This is why it's important to log the throttle while testing.

I ended up setting mine to 3000, atm, and it's much easier to control casual starts and 1-2 shifting. Anyways, just my .02. Some people like 5000, obviously, so it's all up to you.

I had mine set at 5000 and i felt what u experienced so I tried carrying it down to 3000rpm. It felt slow so I adjusted it upto 4000rpm felt like a better in between.
I'm also 6mt but I wonder what effect it would have on 60ft
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dubluv17 dubluv17 is offline
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Default 09-18-2017, 03:56 PM

Source? I always have the hardest time finding any recommendation from BMS or info about the JB4, for that matter. I'm not mad at all, it's just been really tough for me to find certain pieces of info. No boost till 45% might be better than it sounds, but it sounds kinda laggy. I'm definitely gonna lower mine to see how it feels. Thanks for your input.
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dubluv17 dubluv17 is offline
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Default 09-18-2017, 04:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyyardie
I had mine set at 5000 and i felt what u experienced so I tried carrying it down to 3000rpm. It felt slow so I adjusted it upto 4000rpm felt like a better in between.
I'm also 6mt but I wonder what effect it would have on 60ft
Well, during a 60ft, you're 100% throttle, so you'd instantly be passed that throttle threshold. Shouldn't affect it at all.
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Default 09-18-2017, 04:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dubluv17
Well, during a 60ft, you're 100% throttle, so you'd instantly be passed that throttle threshold. Shouldn't affect it at all.
I don't have limited slip So when it's on 5000 I kinda modulate the gas pedal when I launch to help cut wheel spin n my 1st boost is set at 12psi
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vwetish vwetish is offline
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Default 09-18-2017, 04:11 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dubluv17
Source? I always have the hardest time finding any recommendation from BMS or info about the JB4, for that matter. I'm not mad at all, it's just been really tough for me to find certain pieces of info. No boost till 45% might be better than it sounds, but it sounds kinda laggy. I'm definitely gonna lower mine to see how it feels. Thanks for your input.
Post #48. Terry prefers menu 11 set at 0. I have read that in other threads as well.
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dubluv17 dubluv17 is offline
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Default 09-18-2017, 04:11 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyyardie
I don't have limited slip So when it's on 5000 I kinda modulate the gas pedal when I launch to help cut wheel spin n my 1st boost is set at 12psi
Oh, I see what you're saying. Maybe just change it on race night then. Probably the simplest solution.
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dubluv17 dubluv17 is offline
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Default 09-18-2017, 04:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by vwetish
Post #48. Terry prefers menu 11 set at 0. I have read that in other threads as well.
Totally missed that, my bad
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dubluv17 dubluv17 is offline
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Default 09-18-2017, 07:11 PM

Just got back from driving around and I definitely prefer 0 on menu 11. It really makes casual driving so much easier and smoother. I'd recommend, if you're not sure what setting you want, trying 0 for a few minutes and then switching to 5000 for a few minutes. This will absolutely give you an idea of what menu 11 does.
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N54QC N54QC is offline
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Default 09-18-2017, 07:56 PM

With a proper tune, IMO you won't find yourself raising menu 11 up to a high value. Plus the car feels more linear and less jerky. I had menu 11 set high before like 4500 trying to get into boost quicker so the car was peppy, but you get more a jerk sensation and it's less appealing just driving around. Now with my tune and I believe menu 11 is set around 3000, it feels right.


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Default 09-18-2017, 09:16 PM

not sure if i missed it but what about for single turbo,does the 0 value recommened apply there too for menu 11?
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dubluv17 dubluv17 is offline
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Default 09-19-2017, 07:17 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Logan
not sure if i missed it but what about for single turbo,does the 0 value recommened apply there too for menu 11?
Try 0 and then try 5000 to get an idea of each side of the spectrum. After that, it's all up to you and what feels best.
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inevitab1e inevitab1e is offline
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Default 09-26-2017, 06:12 AM

The latest N55 firmware has new boost logic and changes the menu 11 sensitivity. Have you guys tested this yet? I think all the previous recommendations are useless at this point with this latest FW?


2013 E82 135is N55 JB4-BEF FBO
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Default 09-26-2017, 06:22 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by inevitab1e
The latest N55 firmware has new boost logic and changes the menu 11 sensitivity. Have you guys tested this yet? I think all the previous recommendations are useless at this point with this latest FW?
N55 works deferentially and all previous recommendations were for N54.
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Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
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Default 09-26-2017, 08:33 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by inevitab1e
The latest N55 firmware has new boost logic and changes the menu 11 sensitivity. Have you guys tested this yet? I think all the previous recommendations are useless at this point with this latest FW?
The N54 and N55 work roughly the same way in this regard. Menu11 higher means a more sensitive gas pedal.


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Default 06-01-2018, 07:30 PM

im running vm top mount pte 6062 with jb4,whats the default setting for menu 10,11,12?also whats the recommended settings(menu 10,11,12) for single turbo?

Last edited by Logan; 06-01-2018 at 07:39 PM..
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Aussieatlarge Aussieatlarge is offline
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Default 04-10-2019, 02:15 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duperstar
The major thing that I learned about menus 10,11,&12 is that it varies greatly car to car based on its age, backend flash, turbo condition etc. the setting listed above for example would not work for me as my turbos are worn out. It stinks but you really have to try combinations to see what works for you. Menu 10 has to be below 10 for me (or Future use D option) or they rattle like nobody's business. Over the years I have had to gradually lower menu 10 as the turbos aged. I have 140,000 miles on originals turbos and they are slow to spool so my menu 10 is at 4500 so I can get them going asap.
At the risk of getting my head bitten off.....
11 at 0 is great. case closed for me
10 is Waste gate Position at idle (under 1500 rpm) where 10 (5000rpm on dash)) is fully closed and 0 (0000rpm on dash) is wide open - no vacuum just the spring holding it open.
Correct?
Assuming correct:
1. Why would a vacuum (partial closure or full closure) cause more rattle than just flopping around against the spring?
2. By holding the waste gate closed, the turbo spools up a little at very low rpm (less than 1500). How does the motor compensate for this, to avoid a lurch or the revs going up? I assume we want to keep a good AFM so if we pump in air, we need to open the injectors too?

Please don't tell me to Google turbo charging 101.
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Aussieatlarge Aussieatlarge is offline
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Default 04-10-2019, 10:41 PM

Update: I have reread the 2007 Engine Management article and can somewhat answer my own questions.

"In the idle phase, the wastegate valves of both turbochargers are closed. This enables
the full exhaust-gas flow available to be utilized to speed up the compressor already at
these low engine speeds."

AND

"The system design dictates that the blow-off valves are also opened during operating
close to idle (pressure differential Pcharger/Psuction = 0.3 bar). However, this has no
further effects on the turbocharging system."

BUT I still don't understand why the rattle is worse at high menu 10 settings.
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le_roi_leo le_roi_leo is offline
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Default 06-27-2019, 04:10 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Menu 10 is the position the wastegate returns too when making less than 1.5psi of boost.

Menu 11 is the gas pedal sensitivity start point. A setting of 0 runs zero boost up to 45% gas pedal input while a setting of 5000rpm runs zero boost up to 5% gas pedal input. 100% gas pedal input is always full target.

Menu 12 is the minimum wastegate duty cycle. PWM will not drop below this value regardless of where boost is in relation to target.

i calculated menu 11:
if i've understand

menu 11 ---% gas pedal inpu
0 ------------45
200 -------- 43,4
400 ---------41,8
600 ---------40,2
800 ---------38,6
1000 --------37
1200 --------35,4
1400 --------33,8
1600 --------32,2
1800 --------30,6
2000 --------29
2200 --------27,4
2400 --------25,8
2600 --------24,2
2800 --------22,6
3000 --------21
3200 --------19,4
3400 --------17,8
3600 --------16,2
3800 --------14,6
4000 --------13
4200 --------11,4
4400 --------9,8
4600 --------8,2
4800 --------6,6
5000 --------5

too low a setting can lead to lag when i accelerate ?
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le_roi_leo le_roi_leo is offline
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Default 06-27-2019, 06:31 AM

for menu 10:

menu 10 --- % open (0% close, 100% open)
0------------0
200--------- 4
400--------- 8
600--------- 12
800--------- 16
1000 --------20
1200 --------24
1400 --------28
1600 --------32
1800 --------36
2000 --------40
2200 --------44
2400 --------48
2600 --------52
2800 --------56
3000 --------60
3200 --------64
3400 --------68
3600 --------72
3800 --------76
4000 --------80
4200 --------84
4400 --------88
4600 --------92
4800 --------96
5000 --------100

but how to choose the good setting ?
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THE BEAST THE BEAST is offline
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Default 06-27-2019, 01:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by le_roi_leo
i calculated menu 11:
if i've understand

menu 11 ---% gas pedal inpu
0 ------------45
200 -------- 43,4
400 ---------41,8
600 ---------40,2
800 ---------38,6
1000 --------37
1200 --------35,4
1400 --------33,8
1600 --------32,2
1800 --------30,6
2000 --------29
2200 --------27,4
2400 --------25,8
2600 --------24,2
2800 --------22,6
3000 --------21
3200 --------19,4
3400 --------17,8
3600 --------16,2
3800 --------14,6
4000 --------13
4200 --------11,4
4400 --------9,8
4600 --------8,2
4800 --------6,6
5000 --------5

too low a setting can lead to lag when i accelerate ?
Menu 10 I feel has a greater impact on actual lag. NOT 11
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Default 06-27-2019, 01:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by le_roi_leo
for menu 10:

menu 10 --- % open (0% close, 100% open)
0------------0
200--------- 4
400--------- 8
600--------- 12
800--------- 16
1000 --------20
1200 --------24
1400 --------28
1600 --------32
1800 --------36
2000 --------40
2200 --------44
2400 --------48
2600 --------52
2800 --------56
3000 --------60
3200 --------64
3400 --------68
3600 --------72
3800 --------76
4000 --------80
4200 --------84
4400 --------88
4600 --------92
4800 --------96
5000 --------100

but how to choose the good setting ?
A log and personal preference. I have mine at 4k
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le_roi_leo le_roi_leo is offline
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Default 06-30-2019, 01:46 PM

when you change the values in "user adjustment" (jb4 sofware),
on the column "DUTY BIAS" and the right column (boost safety etc...),
this values affects the maps 1-2-5 ? or just map 6 ?
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