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jturboawd jturboawd is offline
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Default MHD vs JB4 + BEF - 09-08-2018, 08:41 AM

Peers,

For those if you who would like to review the logs please go to the ""https"" link below and add the the proper (none *) version of d***z*p.me in place of the **********
This is needed for some restriction on this site that I am not competent of the details on.

Trigger warning: The comments below are based on one persons experience and backed with data from (2) vehicles living in south texas (hot and wet). If you are a die hard MHD only person this data may cause negative emotional responses. If you feel this may include yourself please go back to facebook comments of your fellow peers

There is a apparent trend in our niche market to move away from piggybacks to flashing everything directly onto the DME. Historically this was because the JB4 would attempt to control everything by tweaking the DME signals to trick the DME. This was not optimal for timing and fueling needs. I am a believer that controlling the DME as much as possible is the best scenario. That being said I have come to the conclusion that JB4 + BEF is superior to MHD alone and I would like to provide some evidence for this conclusion. I am not new to this platform but I am also not a tuner. I have built and tuned all my own cars which consist of N54 and N55 with PS2 and EFR turbo. I have owned 3 135i, a X3, and built boosted S54's from my e36 days. So consider me something between a pro and novice .

You can see from my sig my current car is a n55 with A2W, pi, meth, dct, lsd, etc etc. Tuning the EFR has been a challenge since it uses the OEM system but connected to a WG flapper that can flow more than twice that of stock system. Below is my evolution of tuning with examples from my and wifes car.

Step one: I already had the jb4 + MHD tuned for my PS2. I used this as a starting point. I COULD NOT dial in the JB4 as it would overboost by 5psi or more at times and then underboost. It was so dramatic that it would loose traction hitting 30 psi, drop to 15 and then loose again going to 25psi all while targeting 22. I tried to trick the duty bias to stop it but the root of the issue was spool mode. The JB4 kept PWM to high for to long and it would ALWAYS overshoot. I reached out to terry but did not get much help in the matter. After 40 or more logs I ditched the JB4.

Step two: Most advice pointed me to Twisted Tuning for good reason. For 400 bucks Justin sent me a base map. This included boost by gear and mafless operation which was nice since my intake route is not typical due to A2W. I diteched the JB4, added a hobbs to control the stage 3 LPFP and meth and built a new PI map for non integrated. After about 12 iterations Justin was able to get smooth and consistent boot curve. NO MORE SPIKE. I kept getting timing corrections and Justins safeties would push my boost super low due to timing. I DID not get this with the JB4. So now I had no spike with **** timing. I tried to trick my knock sensors to see if it would help, I installed (2) 100 ohm still pots and at about 40% I would not get noise to low errors. Timing drops where EXACTLY THE SAME. Typically it would drop at spool, sometimes at low PSI, like 6-10psi. Drops of 3 to 12 degrees. I tried race gas, lots of octane boosters, etc etc. Same drops. I also could not do a WOT in gear 5-7. it would lead to s full shut down where I had to pull over and restart. I had 3 epic highway battles at 4-5 in the am (low traffic) with a cobra, amg, and finally a mclaren. The mclaren was the final straw. At this point i was on revision 23 of tuning and could not do it anymore. I was willing to go back to JB4 and spike.

Example datazap:
https://***********/u/jturboawd/log-...ata=4-17-44-48
"https://***********/u/jturboawd/log-1536419063?log=1&data=4-17"

Step three: More evidence. My wifes 2011 X3 is low milleage new plug, new many things car. TOtally stock. I flashed MHD stage 1. Guess what. Same exact timing drop spot. This is a stock car with new everything and good gas.
Example datazap
https://***********/u/jturboawd/log-...ata=4-11-15-30
"https://***********/u/jturboawd/log-1536419063?log=0&data=4-15"

Step four: I was going to go back to JB4 and if I could not figure it out the car was going out of my stable. I ordered a new JB4 and harness. Wired everything back up. Updated it and went to log. Same spikes but would not shut down on freeway and did not pull timing. So I asked terry for solution. He sent me two new firmwares, one with spool mode reduced the other with spool mode removed. The spool mode removed did the trick. NO MORE spikes, great timing, and back to controlling meth and PI using BMS interface. (Thank you Terry, WTF didnt you send this to me before LOL). I have BARELY started to dial this thing in. maybe 5 logs into it and you can see the example below:
Example datazap:
https://***********/u/jturboawd/log-...data=1-4-21-25
"https://***********/u/jturboawd/log-1536419063?log=2&data=1-4"

Hypothesis: The JB4 divorces load required (load ceiling) from boost signal. My belief is that there are MANY MANY MANY dependent variables in the DME tables. IF and WHEN we have full competent control of them then the JB4 will become a PI and Meth controller with easy monitoring etc. I dont think we will ever get there. Right not the standard MHD maps cannot separate the load requested from the boost target. This is good and bad. Consider the HPFP signal is tied to load ceiling, as is clutch pressure, so you cant go to low. If you go to high I think the sensitivities around knock etc, are elevated above what I think the OEM would have considered. The knock tables are designed for stock harmonics. I assume the knock algorithm is VERY tied to load request and could be so in a way that weighs that variables heavily within the range of 0-150. When exceeding much higher than that it becomes overly sensitive.

Conclusion: FOR SOME people who are pushing the limits on a N55 application the JB4 may be more appropriate for your needs primarily because you are taking a complex boost control system and replacing with a more simple and less dependent system. You are also getting some good monitoring and control systems for PI and meth. For me the JB4 + BEF seems to do the trick.

Shout out: Justin has been a professional tuner that knows his stuff and is definitely in the top 3 for the platform, I would consider him number 1 but i have not used the others. Justin has been professional and intelligent to work with but not very timely. His popularity has him very busy and this is just a natural consequence. His mafless tune had good drivability and was very fast. I did have some off idle trottling issues (laggyness) that is likely due to mafless but I am sure will get fixed as more people move this way.
Terry: Thank you for spool mode less firmware and always lightning fast responses.
Speedtech: Jeff also had a hand in tuning this beast which is not shown above. He has a MHD alone tune that ran pretty good but I had some issues with the fuel tables and it had the similar timing drops.


2012 N55 135I, Speedtech 7670, JB4 + MHD, Fuel-it port injection & stage 3 LPFP, M4 A2W IC, Mfactory LSD, KW V1, Apex EC-7, Most importantly CF Roof!

Last edited by jturboawd; 09-10-2018 at 10:39 PM..
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Payam @ BMS's Avatar
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Default 09-10-2018, 08:15 AM

Really liked this. I too agree Jb4 and MHD is the best way to go if available for any platform. Best of both worlds, what's not to love?


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It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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C2YT C2YT is offline
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Default 09-10-2018, 10:28 AM

I agree as well, very nice post with detailed information and feedback. It is amazing how many people turn down this product because of Facebook trolls. They have no experience with it to provide accurate feedback.
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Default 09-10-2018, 10:56 AM

Good data but unfortunately we have the site set to block datazap log links, since we can't use 3rd party links for support and we can't selectively block them from just support posts. So I can't see the logs.

Most of the readers here already know what the JB4 brings to the table but you may open some eyes in this forum: https://www.e90post.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=375


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 09-10-2018, 11:48 AM

I ran JB4 only for about 2 years on the stock turbo. When I upgraded to the PS2 I bought a Cobb AP2 and loaded the pump BEF. To this day this was the best setup on the car. It had the most power and the cleanest timing. When MHD was released I decided to give it a shot as a new BEF. I instantly saw worse timing on the same setup. I could not understand why timing was now an issue when it hadn't been before. I was also frustrated after trying to correct a boost dip at 4,000 rpms for about a year so I pulled off the JB4 and sold it.

I went MHD only with a custom tune from Ken (Wedge Performance). Overall I liked the driveability improvements but I was still facing the same timing corrections as I did with the MHD BEF. Due to the timing corrections the car was not making as much power as it was on the old JB4 + Cobb BEF as you can see by the trap speeds in my signature. There is something not quite right about MHD on my setup that I wish could have been figured out. I do feel like load must come into play. If I recall correctly the Cobb BEF load was 160 on high boost where the MHD load would be 180+.

I am returning the 335i back to stock and plan to sell it soon. I plan to move most of the parts over to my X1 and need to figure out which tuning route to go with this time.

Summary
JB4 only - Lacked control but was overall fine with the stock turbo
JB4 + Cobb BEF - Best setup I had. Made the most power and the cleanest timing
JB4 + MHD BEF - Worst timing of all previous setups no improvements noticed from Cobb BEF
MHD only - No change in timing from BEF but better driveability than any previous setup.

As I am sure someone will comment on the "no improvements noticed over Cobb BEF" I fully understand that MHD has more defined tables and is an overall better flash options for this platform. I am not saying Cobb is the way to go.


2011 E92 335i Auto Sold
12.0 @ 125MPH JB4
11.7 @ 120MPH E30 MHD / 0-60 3.66

2014 E84 X1 35i 12.75 @ 107MPH / 0-60 4.55 / 293 AWHP 305 AWTQ When stock
VRSF Chargepipe | BMS Intake | Custom MHD | VRSF 7" Intercooler | ER Turbo Outlet | XHP Stage 2 | AEM Meth Injection | Pure Stage 2 V3 | Pure Inlet | GFB DV+ | AR DP |
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jturboawd jturboawd is offline
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Default 09-10-2018, 10:43 PM

@Bimmerboost interesting and good data point. I think over the past few years there has been some revisions to the XDF tables, units, and scaling that is different between the cobb variants and the MHD variants. Seems like cobb vs mhd is your timing issue, hum....

A pitty some of us have to invest to try multiple options. But then again none of these guys are the OEM so its a bit of a educated hit and miss as we evolve.


2012 N55 135I, Speedtech 7670, JB4 + MHD, Fuel-it port injection & stage 3 LPFP, M4 A2W IC, Mfactory LSD, KW V1, Apex EC-7, Most importantly CF Roof!
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Default 09-25-2018, 11:53 AM

Good read.

I always loved the jb4 mobile app boost limiting and map switching on the fly with the jb4/flash stack. What I didn’t love is when it would crash and my car wouldn’t run because it deleted all my settings etc. that happened over 3 years a handful of times. The only other real issue I had with the stack setup was inconsistent Boost curve when WOT. I tried all sorts of things and never could get it to be consistent. I switched to MHD flash only and have had pretty good luck with commanded wastegate duty cycle tuning. There has been a lot of recent development for the n55 On the flash only side of tuning but I don’t think many have access yet to those changes. Flash only is much better IMO from a daily driving standpoint, the car drives like stock like it’s supposed to. Boost is consistent it does change slightly with weather if you are using a commander wastegate approach like me. Colder and more dense air I see 1-2+ psi vs hot and dry air. I do miss the Bluetooth gauges connection and boost limiting big time!! I think both are great products and jb4 hands down is still much easier to dial in port injection and or methanol injection. I never experience the timing drop issues you mention flash only, I have tons of multigear WOT logs at 11* of timing with not even the slightest correction. Hopefully you get it all dialed I don’t think one setup is superior to the other as far as power is concerned, it all just comes down to boost and timing


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jturboawd jturboawd is offline
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Default 09-26-2018, 12:11 PM

In theory flash only should be superior for tuning which would leave JB4 for easy monitoring, PI and meth control. If it was not for timing issues I would be flash only even though it made PI and Meth more difficult for sure. I think when you factor in meth and PI control it may be better just to run the JB4 in flash only mode for these features. Im still getting some boost control issues with the JB4 but I had to pick my battles. I can hall all on freeway with clean timing on JB4 but still get oscillations


2012 N55 135I, Speedtech 7670, JB4 + MHD, Fuel-it port injection & stage 3 LPFP, M4 A2W IC, Mfactory LSD, KW V1, Apex EC-7, Most importantly CF Roof!
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Default 09-26-2018, 12:24 PM

Having seen your logs it's clear there is a physical issue beyond WGDC causing your boost control problem.

WGDC is the output to the boost solenoid. When WGDC is relatively steady and VE relatively steady boost should also be relatively steady. If it's not then either VE is not steady (e.g. a VANOS tuning issue), or there is a control system issue (e.g. wastegate arm is moving despite WGDC to pneumatic solenoid holding steady).

For example in this log boost drops, PID responds by increasing WGDC proportionally to the drop (mostly P action), boost recovers. Boost should not have dropped in the first place. I'd guess it's VANOS tuning related but could also be a sticking boost solenoid or non-linear or leaking wastegate wastegate. You'd start to rule those out using a vacuum gauge on the WG.

You said it was not doing it on a custom flash so that points back to a sudden VE change (VANOS) as the prime suspect.

Unfortunately I just have limited time so can't really sink any more in to this at least not via email. There are no tuning tools I can add to the JB4 that will help you resolve this. It's going to have to be resolved on the flash side if a VE issue or under the hood if its a physical issue. I can continue to monitor this thread and evaluate logs if you post them here.

As a general pointer sometimes when you have mystery VE issues just running a dramatically different boost profile will work around it. Way less boost or way more boost in that area.
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Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 09-26-2018, 12:33 PM

^this is very similar to what I ran into after installing the PS2. Boost would hit target, dip as much as 5 psi, and recover by 4,000 - 4,500rpm. I spent a year playing with duty bias tuning before throwing my hands up and moving to MHD only. I think I am going to give the JB4 another shot on my X1 and see if I run into the same issue or not.


2011 E92 335i Auto Sold
12.0 @ 125MPH JB4
11.7 @ 120MPH E30 MHD / 0-60 3.66

2014 E84 X1 35i 12.75 @ 107MPH / 0-60 4.55 / 293 AWHP 305 AWTQ When stock
VRSF Chargepipe | BMS Intake | Custom MHD | VRSF 7" Intercooler | ER Turbo Outlet | XHP Stage 2 | AEM Meth Injection | Pure Stage 2 V3 | Pure Inlet | GFB DV+ | AR DP |
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Default 09-26-2018, 12:51 PM

This is awesome! Thanks for sharing J!

I've been trying to dial-in my car for a few weeks and I can't control the boost. I need to get those JB4 firmwares and give it a try.


2011 E92 ABR N55 Built Motor | ABR Built 6AT | Big Boost 3.4 Turbo Kit | JB4 + MHD | xPH Stg3 Flash | Fuel-It Stg 3 LPFP | Fuel-it PI Kit | COBB Exhaust | E85 |

Last edited by alexis485; 09-26-2018 at 02:02 PM..
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Default 09-26-2018, 01:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexis485
This is awesome! Thanks for sharing J!

I've been trying to dial-in my car for a few weeks and I can control the boost. I need to get those JB4 firmwares and give it a try.
On the spool mode adjustment we'll include the FUD option for it in the latest firmware built but you can email me for it if you need it sooner to play with. And on mystery boost dips let's evaluate the BEF maps more closely in that load and RPM range.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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alexis485 alexis485 is offline
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Default 09-26-2018, 02:40 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
On the spool mode adjustment we'll include the FUD option for it in the latest firmware built but you can email me for it if you need it sooner to play with. And on mystery boost dips let's evaluate the BEF maps more closely in that load and RPM range.
I already sent you an email asking for it. Thanks T!


2011 E92 ABR N55 Built Motor | ABR Built 6AT | Big Boost 3.4 Turbo Kit | JB4 + MHD | xPH Stg3 Flash | Fuel-It Stg 3 LPFP | Fuel-it PI Kit | COBB Exhaust | E85 |
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jturboawd jturboawd is offline
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Default 09-27-2018, 04:00 AM

Im still trying to dial this in. What I have currently is
1. Twisted flash without vanos changes seems to control boost with little to no dip compared to JB4 but bad timing and high gear shutdowns.

2. JB4 with BEF has dip when WGDC drops below FF ALWAYS. IF WGDC does not drop below FF then its buttery smooth and beautiful, this is 20% of the time. I personally think this is either a PID or processing speed thing but I am not certain and will try any and all other fixes.

Today I will log BEF with disabled spool mode (modified vanos based on max RPM spool) and some vanos changes. Since all boost PID is in JB4 i am not sure what I can change to fix this issue. The bigger stage 3 turbos have bid ass WG's and will likely have more sensitive post tip PID requirements. This looks like classic PID control system engineering. Im going to keep trying to smooth this thing out. Right now JB4 allows for good timing and I can haul ass in high gears which trumps smooth boost control but bad timing and shut downs. Sucks having to pick between less than optimal. I will try the following next in order:
- Significantly reduce spool mode
- Modified load ceilings
- Vanos changes
- Reduce FF to try to keep it below WGDC

If none of this works I will run the standard BEF using load ceiling for target and see if I can only change WGDC and PID to not get spike. If this is the case then it seems that its a JB4 control issue if not then the hunt continues.

If anyone has any other suggestions I will try and let you guys know how it works.


2012 N55 135I, Speedtech 7670, JB4 + MHD, Fuel-it port injection & stage 3 LPFP, M4 A2W IC, Mfactory LSD, KW V1, Apex EC-7, Most importantly CF Roof!

Last edited by jturboawd; 09-27-2018 at 06:21 AM..
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jturboawd jturboawd is offline
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Default 09-27-2018, 04:02 AM

@Bimmer_Boost

I threw my hands up with JB4 for boost control issues, went MHD and threw my hands up again with a PRO, now I am back and might just end up settling between bad timing or bad boost control . Im not done trying though.


2012 N55 135I, Speedtech 7670, JB4 + MHD, Fuel-it port injection & stage 3 LPFP, M4 A2W IC, Mfactory LSD, KW V1, Apex EC-7, Most importantly CF Roof!
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jturboawd jturboawd is offline
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Default 09-27-2018, 06:32 AM

Related question for the group: If I use 4/3 and set boost target below BEF target then what is defining the boost for the car? In this scenario does the JB4 allow the DME to control via WGDC and PID OR does JB4 calculate target and use the JB4 PID system?


2012 N55 135I, Speedtech 7670, JB4 + MHD, Fuel-it port injection & stage 3 LPFP, M4 A2W IC, Mfactory LSD, KW V1, Apex EC-7, Most importantly CF Roof!
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Terry @ BMS's Avatar
Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
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Default 09-27-2018, 08:10 AM

The JB4 controls boost in ISO formats on all maps and all modes. 4/3 vs. 4/2 just controls the JB4 boost targets, whether it can target less than or more than the factory flash target.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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jturboawd jturboawd is offline
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Default 09-27-2018, 08:21 AM

If the JB4 uses the flash target what table is it pulled from? Is this the base WGDC table it pulls from? So this uses JB4 for PID control regardless of target?

If I understand this correctly using 4/3 I can set JB4 less than the equivalent WGDC DME table and my WGDC will reflect the DME target that is adjusted using the JB4 PID system?


2012 N55 135I, Speedtech 7670, JB4 + MHD, Fuel-it port injection & stage 3 LPFP, M4 A2W IC, Mfactory LSD, KW V1, Apex EC-7, Most importantly CF Roof!
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M-terkait M-terkait is offline
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Default 09-29-2018, 10:14 PM

Hey terry is there a spool mode also in Fseries MAC solenoid firmware?
Because i can feel dual spool modes activating while accelerating from 3000rpm (one from ecu/ other Jb4) just not sure if true.
can it be disabled?



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Default 09-30-2018, 12:22 AM

Hey Jay, some great info

From what I've seen, this is pretty much spot on:

Quote:
Hypothesis: The JB4 divorces load required (load ceiling) from boost signal. My belief is that there are MANY MANY MANY dependent variables in the DME tables. IF and WHEN we have full competent control of them then the JB4 will become a PI and Meth controller with easy monitoring etc. I dont think we will ever get there. Right not the standard MHD maps cannot separate the load requested from the boost target. This is good and bad. Consider the HPFP signal is tied to load ceiling, as is clutch pressure, so you cant go to low. If you go to high I think the sensitivities around knock etc, are elevated above what I think the OEM would have considered. The knock tables are designed for stock harmonics. I assume the knock algorithm is VERY tied to load request and could be so in a way that weighs that variables heavily within the range of 0-150. When exceeding much higher than that it becomes overly sensitive.
Until we can get some element of HPFP, knock and plate pressure control, without them being overly influenced by load, dialling in at high boost is going to be a struggle!

A little outdated now, but here's something I posted in 2016 when first experiencing load related HPFP issues, showing some relationship between load and HPFP values: https://www.n54tech.com/forums/showp...0&postcount=30. I've also got some other posts (which I'm struggling to find atm) from around the same period showing the relationship between load, plate pressure and knock/misfires, which support what you've put.

If LCM is pushed >150 what impact did you see with the pots on false knock?

Also, if you've not already seen it, this is worth a read as it elaborates a little on why MFactory think we have false knock and how it could be addressed: https://www.n54tech.com/forums/showp...&postcount=248

Thanks


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JB4 | BMS OCC | N20 TMap | Fuel-It! PI | AIC6 PI Controller | Fuel-It! Fuel Lines | Fuel-It! Stage 2 LPFP | Continental In-line E Sensor | ER Charge Pipe | Pure Stage 2 Turbo | Pure High Flow Inlet | GFB DV+ | Richter C'less D/Pipe | Berk Race Full Exhaust | MFactory Pro Helical LSD (75% Bias Ratio) | eDiff Disabled Via Coding | MFactory Solid Diff Bushes | Diff Lockdown Bracket | Custom 98G0B BEF | NGK 5992s | KW3 Coilovers

Last edited by keyap; 09-30-2018 at 12:49 AM..
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jturboawd jturboawd is offline
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Default 10-03-2018, 08:56 AM

Keyap, I followed this advise and experienced similar things with a maxed out PS2 years back and kepted track of your posts on the subject having similar results. The MHD knock seems to be mainly during tip in at low boost but higher load targets. I need to change my BEF to target 220 and see if I get the same thing with JB4.

On a side note I still get crappy boost control post tip with JB4 regardless of all setting changes. Sometimes I can trick it into one beautiful log but in a few later its crap again.

My current theory is the JB4 PID allows to much vent when large changes to boost occur such as tip in. So think pulse width change vents vacuum allowing WG to open. My WG has twice the force on it due to size so small change really makes BIG difference, then JB4 catches up. If I had full PID control I could change this, such as with DME table. However I do not with JB4 so I am devising ways of testing this. My current plan is to add a N54 vacuum canister (which I think is ironic). I could also add a restrictor pill and will do this next but my preference would be for this to be on the vent, which I think may be internal to the solenoid.

Will keep forum posted.


2012 N55 135I, Speedtech 7670, JB4 + MHD, Fuel-it port injection & stage 3 LPFP, M4 A2W IC, Mfactory LSD, KW V1, Apex EC-7, Most importantly CF Roof!
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Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
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Default 10-03-2018, 09:13 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jturboawd
If the JB4 uses the flash target what table is it pulled from? Is this the base WGDC table it pulls from? So this uses JB4 for PID control regardless of target?

If I understand this correctly using 4/3 I can set JB4 less than the equivalent WGDC DME table and my WGDC will reflect the DME target that is adjusted using the JB4 PID system?
There is no set table the flash target is pulled from. It's dynamically calculated based on load and torque targets within the ECU. You can manipulate it with various tables in the flash.

If you set JB4 to 4/3 a rule will be enforced that the JB4 won't target less boost than the DME is targeting. And the JB4 also adjusts it's internal map boost targets to be suitable for the factory flash map.

You should not be using mode 4/3 with a BEF loaded.


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Default 10-03-2018, 09:14 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jturboawd
My current theory is the JB4 PID allows to much vent when large changes to boost occur such as tip in.
Your logs have already disproved that theory as WGDC (the signal to the boost solenoid) is not declining during the time boost is dropping post spool. So it's clearly a VANOS/volumetric efficiency change sort of issue to me.


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It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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jturboawd jturboawd is offline
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Default 10-03-2018, 09:50 AM

If it was Vanos related I’m to ignorant to understand how when wgdc does not dip below ff I get a beautiful curve but when it does it drops 5 psi and recoups. I’ve also disabled spoolmode in dme flash and changed Vanos by 20% up and down.

Will keep you guys posted on any notable changes. Picking up vacuum canister today


2012 N55 135I, Speedtech 7670, JB4 + MHD, Fuel-it port injection & stage 3 LPFP, M4 A2W IC, Mfactory LSD, KW V1, Apex EC-7, Most importantly CF Roof!
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Default 10-03-2018, 09:50 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
There is no set table the flash target is pulled from. It's dynamically calculated based on load and torque targets within the ECU. You can manipulate it with various tables in the flash.

If you set JB4 to 4/3 a rule will be enforced that the JB4 won't target less boost than the DME is targeting. And the JB4 also adjusts it's internal map boost targets to be suitable for the factory flash map.

You should not be using mode 4/3 with a BEF loaded.
Terry, I've modified your BEF to target 180 load, but it only hits 160 load WOT. I made sure to adjust Load Ceiling Main and Load Ceiling Super Knock. Am I missing something?


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