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Default 05-13-2015, 11:11 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jyamona
If it's just expecting a different phase, couldn't something be wired in that delays / offsets the signal by X ms? Scope the signals, get the phase length, wire in "delay" for other bank. I'm no EE, so I don't know how hard that is to do...

Jake@Motiv scoped the two signals, and what he saw was they were in opposite phase. I assume it looked like the bottom graph on this image:
Not sure where that info came from but it's not a wave form. It's a current pump. So you'd need to configure something that was able to precisely measure the current flow through one sensor and simulate that for the other.


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Default 05-13-2015, 11:13 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by blisstik
IJEOS here and I have varying AFRs as well.

What I've done to fix it temporarily is to reset adaptation values in INPA. After that, both AFR banks will be the same and will slowly separate to consistent 1.0+ difference in values.
I've noticed the long term fuel trims also diverge which the basis of the problem. But why I don't know. Do you have pins 19 & 20 unplugged?


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Default 05-13-2015, 11:16 AM

Hi Terry,

No, I don't have pins 19 and 20 unplugged. I also have not removed my rear O2s. I will test that solution out next.

Have you tried asking Jake or Dzenno if they experience this issue with EMS-4?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
I've noticed the long term fuel trims also diverge which the basis of the problem. But why I don't know. Do you have pins 19 & 20 unplugged?



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Default 05-13-2015, 11:25 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
I've noticed the long term fuel trims also diverge which the basis of the problem. But why I don't know. Do you have pins 19 & 20 unplugged?
So all you do is just unplug Pins 19&20 and run like that? Nothing else you gotta do?


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Default 05-13-2015, 11:29 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by blisstik
Hi Terry,

No, I don't have pins 19 and 20 unplugged. I also have not removed my rear O2s. I will test that solution out next.

Have you tried asking Jake or Dzenno if they experience this issue with EMS-4?
Do not remove your rear o2 sensors!!

Do unplug pins 19 & 20 on the small black subconnecter, reset your adaptions, and see if the banks continue to diverge.

I have discussed it with Jake. The AIC6 and EMS4 have no impact on DME's air/fuel control and trimming bank to bank. That is strictly within the DME. That is unless one of the PI injectors failed, clogged, etc, and caused a physical bank to bank fuel variance. But that isn't the case here.

Jake thinks the o2 bank to bank variance issue is related to the preturbo placement of the sensors and the excessive pressure they are under. IMHO the preturbo placement causes sloppy AFR readings and burns out sensors, but isn't the cause of the divergence. Both banks are under equal pressure so the sensors should read the same way. The DME is also aware of the divergence which would not be the case if this was a simple DME sensor reading issue. So IMHO the evidence all points to a trimming or adaption type issue.


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Default 05-13-2015, 12:20 PM

OK, I just removed pins 19 and 20 on the small black subconnector. I kept my O2s and reset adaptations via INPA.

The pin wires were blue and orange. For future reference, is blue pin 19 or 20? I forgot to take a picture prior to removing it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Do not remove your rear o2 sensors!!

Do unplug pins 19 & 20 on the small black subconnecter, reset your adaptions, and see if the banks continue to diverge.

I have discussed it with Jake. The AIC6 and EMS4 have no impact on DME's air/fuel control and trimming bank to bank. That is strictly within the DME. That is unless one of the PI injectors failed, clogged, etc, and caused a physical bank to bank fuel variance. But that isn't the case here.

Jake thinks the o2 bank to bank variance issue is related to the preturbo placement of the sensors and the excessive pressure they are under. IMHO the preturbo placement causes sloppy AFR readings and burns out sensors, but isn't the cause of the divergence. Both banks are under equal pressure so the sensors should read the same way. The DME is also aware of the divergence which would not be the case if this was a simple DME sensor reading issue. So IMHO the evidence all points to a trimming or adaption type issue.



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Default 05-13-2015, 12:49 PM

The JB4 will only have jumper wires in those spots. Looks like you did it wrong. Numbers are read from the FEMALE side of the connector.


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Default 05-13-2015, 01:34 PM

Can you tell me on the male side if 19 is BLUE or ORANGE?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
The JB4 will only have jumper wires in those spots. Looks like you did it wrong. Numbers are read from the FEMALE side of the connector.



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Default 05-13-2015, 02:13 PM

OK, looking at the install guide, it looks like 19 is BLUE and 20 is ORANGE on the FEMALE side of the small black subconnector. DO NOT REMOVE THESE.

Now for the male side of pins 19 and 20 corresponds to 6 and 7 on the FEMALE side of the small black subconnector. You will see that its the wires directly above the BLUE and ORANGE wires. This is what should be REMOVED.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blisstik
Can you tell me on the male side if 19 is BLUE or ORANGE?



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Default 05-13-2015, 02:39 PM

You don't touch any blue or orange wires. The correct wires on the other side of that patch. Where old wire in dp fix would have connected. Pins 19 & 20 as read from the female side of the connector.


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Default 05-13-2015, 02:43 PM

Got it done! Now what? We don't have to worry about it anymore?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
You don't touch any blue or orange wires. The correct wires on the other side of that patch. Where old wire in dp fix would have connected. Pins 19 & 20 as read from the female side of the connector.



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Default 05-13-2015, 02:48 PM

Reset adaptions and see if the banks still learn apart. Also take a screen shot of the actual reset you're using. Wondering if it differs from the commands built in to the JB4 that came from the Bav Tech system.


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Default 05-13-2015, 03:05 PM

I'm using INPA to reset adaptations. There's about 3 items for lambda.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Reset adaptions and see if the banks still learn apart. Also take a screen shot of the actual reset you're using. Wondering if it differs from the commands built in to the JB4 that came from the Bav Tech system.



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Default 05-13-2015, 03:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Reset adaptions and see if the banks still learn apart. Also take a screen shot of the actual reset you're using. Wondering if it differs from the commands built in to the JB4 that came from the Bav Tech system.
I know you hate hearing the reference but im honestly trying to help here.

When i used the procede and did adaptions reset nothing would really change unless i did it a few times in a row before exiting the Procede commands. I knew it worked when i started the car after and the idle would just surge. I'd shut the car off turn it back on and everything would be good. I confirmed this on multiple cars. It was almost like the adaptation resets didn't actually work until the idle when crazy during first start. This is how i got my splitting banks back into place. My banks would only split after a major tune change or sensor change, or something drastic. It never "just started doing it" Food for for thought


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Default 05-13-2015, 05:08 PM

you can see here how smooth the front bank is and how quick cyl 1 recovers. Look at bank 2 and cyl 5. Different story
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Default 05-13-2015, 05:12 PM

Your bank2 fuel trims are not showing up at all. They should be under iavg. Do they show up in previous logs?


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Default 05-13-2015, 05:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Your bank2 fuel trims are not showing up at all. They should be under iavg. Do they show up in previous logs?
hmm heres my 3 logs from today. it doesnt show up at all. Im on 11.4.
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File Type: csv 2015-05-13 16_12_55.csv (4.9 KB, 138 views)
File Type: csv 2015-05-13 16_11_45.csv (4.9 KB, 163 views)


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Default 05-13-2015, 05:25 PM

Donnie says it's an issue with the android interface and will publish an update shortly. Your AFR doesn't look bad overall. Fairly typical for single turbo kits. But I want to see how trims are tracking bank to bank.


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Default 05-13-2015, 05:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Perhaps an issue with your interface? Try updating it, or logging with the windows interface to verify.
Interface is updated but i usually use my phone since its the most convenient. Ill see what i can do tonight. Does the Ign adv mean anything in those logs? or just random numbers?


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Default 05-13-2015, 06:39 PM

Ok so i confirmed that logging with the computer uses ign adv as trim bank 2. I'll drop a line in the app creators thread.

I reset adaptations with both JB command and BT probably 25 times each like i use to have to do with the procede (more like 5 times but better to be safe) I'll let the car sit over night and see how she does tomorrow.

I also went ahead and disconnected pin 19&20

Ill take more logs tomorrow with the computer and see what happens.
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Default 05-14-2015, 09:55 AM

Hi guys..
for n54 single turbo,which oil recommend?
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Default 05-14-2015, 05:47 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jyamona
If it's just expecting a different phase, couldn't something be wired in that delays / offsets the signal by X ms? Scope the signals, get the phase length, wire in "delay" for other bank. I'm no EE, so I don't know how hard that is to do...

Jake@Motiv scoped the two signals, and what he saw was they were in opposite phase. I assume it looked like the bottom graph on this image:
Since my brain wont stop thinking i started doing a little research.

It looks like all the phasing is done via O2 and DME. So exhaust pulses should have an effect. Also seeing that some of the exhaust manifolds have different placement of O2's between banks would meant that the exhaust pulses would differ from bank to bank too.

Would it be worth trying to install both O2's in the DP? i Would have zero issue trying it but i only haz 1 O2 bung in my DP.

Is there something im missing with this?


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Default 05-14-2015, 06:16 PM

It looks like the reset was a success for the most part. They really started smoothing out. I think with a few more runs it'll be better.

I hate cyl 5. I think i liked it better when i couldnt see it at all. It seems to trigger between 5-5500rpm. Ive basically capped 4500-7000 at 11.3:1. Idk if its from the fast spool but it doesnt like the 5-5500 range
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Default 05-15-2015, 12:45 PM

Terry, if you want i can start another thread on o2 development. I found something interesting messing around last night. I unplugged the front O2 when it was running and the JB kept on logging it. It got very lean 17.3:1 but soon richened to my regular idle of 15.1:1 Both banks were reading the same. Does the DME go off 1 O2 sensor when the other has failed? I'd expect it to go into a limp mode or fail safe mode but i wouldnt expect the JB to pick up the signal. Sounds stupid but i wonder if you could run off 1 o2 and code the other out. I have a race at the end of the month so i might mess with it after. I dont need to compromise my engine right now

Anyways,
My theory on the wavy O2's seems to be directly related to HPFP and trims. Ive been working with the 3d scalar trying to get them as smooth as possible. So far the results look very promising.
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Default 05-15-2015, 01:12 PM

My car seems to react to scalar adjustments far more as a single turbo car than on stock frames, have no idea why or perhaps it's incidental.

One time I had a wideband literally burn up, the bank went max lean and didn't richen up at all, but i shut the car off after about 5 seconds once I realized what had happened...So IDK if the DME somehow recognizes the failure and applies identical fuel request based on a single bank.

Still, the thought of using one wideband in one bank to control both banks seems like it would have its' own drawbacks, no? Maybe i'm over-complicating this.

And +1 on a separate thread, i'd love to see where this goes.
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