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Terry @ BMS's Avatar
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Default 01-17-2019, 10:13 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by chainar1
Terry, do you know of any way to install the fuel wires without tapping into the factory O2 wires? Perhaps something like an O2 wire extension that we can tap into instead? Trying to think of a way to install them in a way that will leave no trace if uninstalled.

Since the posi-tap pin hole is under the factory sleeving and very small it's not not easy to spot. We could make plug and play extensions but I don't think it's worth it. If you're really worried just buy new O2 sensors as the pin hole is on the O2 sensor side of the harness. Alternatively you could use a heat gun to squish the wire insulation back together over the hole once removed down the road.


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chainar1 chainar1 is offline
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Default 01-17-2019, 10:27 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Since the posi-tap pin hole is under the factory sleeving and very small it's not not easy to spot. We could make plug and play extensions but I don't think it's worth it. If you're really worried just buy new O2 sensors as the pin hole is on the O2 sensor side of the harness. Alternatively you could use a heat gun to squish the wire insulation back together over the hole once removed down the road.
I think it's worth it. But I guess like I'm alone in that.

I thought about the tap being under the factory wire sleeve, but if someone is specifically looking for it, they'll find it. It's not hard to see that a wire has been previously tapped. And I thought about replacing the O2s, but that's quite an expensive proposition.
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RandyNester RandyNester is offline
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Default 01-17-2019, 11:19 AM

Trying to update, but I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong. The first photo is what comes up on my phone when I click Firmware Update. At that screen when I click the green arrow I get a blank screen with another X.
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Default 01-17-2019, 11:53 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyNester
Trying to update, but I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong. The first photo is what comes up on my phone when I click Firmware Update. At that screen when I click the green arrow I get a blank screen with another X.
When the webpage pops up put this link.

https://www.n54tech.com/forums/attac...6&d=1502727162


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ddnspider ddnspider is offline
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Default 01-17-2019, 12:11 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by chainar1
I think it's worth it. But I guess like I'm alone in that.

I thought about the tap being under the factory wire sleeve, but if someone is specifically looking for it, they'll find it. It's not hard to see that a wire has been previously tapped. And I thought about replacing the O2s, but that's quite an expensive proposition.
I guess I don't follow the logic. Are you assuming that someone will somehow be able to tell there was a pin hole in the insulation of a wire for the O2 sensor and that somehow infers there was a "tune" or modification? If someone really wanted to dig into the car, there are other ways to tell, but none of it guarantees anything. Nobody could every prove anything from a pin hole, and that assumes they could find it.
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chainar1 chainar1 is offline
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Default 01-17-2019, 07:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddnspider
Let's try this link again. It taps the wire and provides a connector. If you find a spot in the harness to tap into, this will allow you to remove the fuel wire for service and reattach.

No idea why the link won't paste right. Just go on Amazon and search for "Ginsco 120 Pcs/60 Pairs Quick Splice Wire Terminals T-Tap Self-stripping with Nylon Fully Insulated Male Quick Disconnects Kit".
This does get me thinking though. Perhaps getting some d-sub connectors and tapping the terminal on the o2 side. Like those mirror tap things for radar detectors. Hmm..
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IridiumRS400 IridiumRS400 is offline
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Default 01-17-2019, 08:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by V@pors
1. Could someone please post the PSI settings by RPM that are programmed into Map 1 on the JB4? I would appreciate it. I am looking to emulate it on my Map 6 but hoping to compensate for altitude if possible.

Thanks for the help.
The Red Sport peaks @ 14.5 psi (stock). Here's a table of boost values over the rev range:



Read more about it here:

TO INFINITI BEYOND - ANALYZING THE VR30DDTT TURBOS | STILLEN Garage

Before I was Ecutek tuned, I ran a JB4 and used Map 6 exclusively. Most of the JB4 users follow a "tapered boost" profile on Map 6. Start out around +1.0-1.5 @ 1500 rpm, and add 0.5 to 1.0 every 500 rpm up to 4k rpm. Once @ 4k, use +4.0-4.5 @ 4k, 4.5, and 5k rpm. After this, I tapered down 1.0 @ 5.5k, another 1.0 @ 6k rpm, and then 0.0 @ 6.5k & 7k rpms. I am at sea-level, so these would be baseline, and then increment up until your logs tell you the ECU is pulling timing, or the AFR is going lean > 14.7.

With these small turbos, as you'll see in the article, adding (excessive) boost after 5200 rpm is pointless - the turbos fall out of their efficiency curve. Therefore, I'm perplexed why you would add +7 psi over stock ecu boost over 5k rpm. It's only going to add heat and not boost.

Good luck.


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Terry @ BMS's Avatar
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Default 01-18-2019, 09:13 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by IridiumRS400
The Red Sport peaks @ 14.5 psi (stock). Here's a table of boost values over the rev range:
The factory tuning is load based so the target will vary based on intake temps, barometric pressure, and other factors. Gives you an idea of how they run the boost on the RS but remember boost is just 1/3 of the tuning equation. You also have to balance ignition advance and fuel.


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Default 01-18-2019, 09:15 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by chainar1
I think it's worth it. But I guess like I'm alone in that.

I thought about the tap being under the factory wire sleeve, but if someone is specifically looking for it, they'll find it. It's not hard to see that a wire has been previously tapped. And I thought about replacing the O2s, but that's quite an expensive proposition.
Maybe down the road we'll make plug and play connectors for them, but it's not going to be cheap. Given the relatively minor nature of the tuning benefit the inexpensive and easy to implement posi-tap solution makes sense from our side. At least for now. But it's just two wires, you can join them however you'd like to join them. Let's keep this specific thread focused on our suggested implementation though to avoid customer confusion.


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It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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ddnspider ddnspider is offline
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Default 01-18-2019, 05:49 PM

Terry, I got my firmware updated and fuel wires added and bit 0 turned on. I noticed something odd. When coasting it looks like the AFR readings flash back and forth on decel. Previously they would basically go to 0 since the car is pulling all fuel. Are these inputs to the PIC high impedance? Seems wierd. See attached log.
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File Type: csv 2019-01-18 19_39_53_Map-6.csv (5.5 KB, 63 views)
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Default 01-18-2019, 05:57 PM

I think that's normal behavior (unrelated to fuel wires) as fuel is cut off during decel.


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ddnspider ddnspider is offline
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Default 01-18-2019, 06:01 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
I think that's normal behavior (unrelated to fuel wires) as fuel is cut off during decel.
What's odd to me is that previously it would just switched to zero and stay there during decel. Maybe it's the y pipe that I added also. I checked with AFR with the fuel control turned on and it sits nice and steady at 12.5 with no sharp drops in timing.
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Default 01-18-2019, 06:28 PM

Could be something we changed with the logging as well in the latest version. I'll check it out later.


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Default 01-18-2019, 07:27 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Could be something we changed with the logging as well in the latest version. I'll check it out later.
Sounds good. Finally got a higher gear log. What do you think?
Attached Files
File Type: csv 2019-01-18 21_02_51_Map-6.csv (7.7 KB, 83 views)
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Default 01-18-2019, 11:17 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by IridiumRS400

Before I was Ecutek tuned, I ran a JB4 and used Map 6 exclusively. Most of the JB4 users follow a "tapered boost" profile on Map 6. Start out around +1.0-1.5 @ 1500 rpm, and add 0.5 to 1.0 every 500 rpm up to 4k rpm. Once @ 4k, use +4.0-4.5 @ 4k, 4.5, and 5k rpm. After this, I tapered down 1.0 @ 5.5k, another 1.0 @ 6k rpm, and then 0.0 @ 6.5k & 7k rpms. I am at sea-level, so these would be baseline, and then increment up until your logs tell you the ECU is pulling timing, or the AFR is going lean > 14.7.

With these small turbos, as you'll see in the article, adding (excessive) boost after 5200 rpm is pointless - the turbos fall out of their efficiency curve. Therefore, I'm perplexed why you would add +7 psi over stock ecu boost over 5k rpm. It's only going to add heat and not boost.

Good luck.
Thanks for the info. After reading that article, I now understand the decreased efficiency/heat production problem of the smaller turbos. I compared the stock RedSport PSI's to the recommendations in that article, and here is what I came up with for a potential map 6:

3000 RPM 1 PSI
3500 RPM 3 PSI
4000 RPM 5 PSI
4500 RPM 4 PSI
5000 RPM 3.5 PSI
5500 RPM 3 PSI
6000 RPM 2 PSI
6500 RPM 1 PSI

This looks very close to what Sky777 posted on an earlier thread. I may have successfully reinvented the wheel. I will try these values and post a log when I get a chance.


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Boxy Boxy is offline
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Default 01-19-2019, 08:40 AM

Hey Terry,

Got the fuel control installed. Weather was terrible last night but I managed to get a good log in. Let me know if you want me to take more specific logs.

18 Red sport FBO, E30 fuel, Map 6
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File Type: csv 2019-01-19 00_03_55_Map-6.csv (11.9 KB, 73 views)
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Default 01-19-2019, 10:21 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxy
Hey Terry,

Got the fuel control installed. Weather was terrible last night but I managed to get a good log in. Let me know if you want me to take more specific logs.

18 Red sport FBO, E30 fuel, Map 6
Looks OK so far but try a longer run when it's safe to do so.


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Fourg63 Fourg63 is offline
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Default 01-19-2019, 02:35 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddnspider
Sounds good. Finally got a higher gear log. What do you think?
Is this with the fuel wires? Looks exactly like my logs (no fuel wires) when the timing drops at around 5400rpm except I'm running a bit more boost with higher AFRs so my timing drop is sharper. I was under the impression that the fuel wires would keep the AFRs at 12.5 throughout the RPM range and reduce the timing drop or was I being too optimistic?
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Rs400newbie Rs400newbie is offline
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Default 01-19-2019, 03:18 PM

Just want to give a quick comment on the JB4 fuel wires add-on. Install was simple, driver side takes about 20secs, passenger side a little tricky, still easy. You'll need a flathead screw driver and pliers

Like the install video suggests, unhooking the harness on the passenger side a little more wiggle room. As for me, there are two clamps holding the harness, I unhooked the top and bottom clamps (see pics with green circles Jb4 Fuel wires - Google Drive) as well as the clip holding connector to the O2 sensor. After that, its just a matter of routing the wire back to the JB4 module and everything snaps back in. Easier if the engine is cold. I installed with a hot engine.

For guys who are concerned about detectability and removal, the wires can easily be removed/installed from the top of the positaps and leave the rest. Even if you remove the positaps, it will be covered by the wire sleeves. Looking at my logs, definitely tamed my afrs close to 12.5. Old logs showing 13.xx at comparable WOTs. I need to test more and tweak my maps a little more.

Now regarding v6 firmware, the beeps are a very welcome update. The custom boost by gear is also great. Before the lowest I can go was .1 at first gear (up to 30mph) before JB4 applies boost by rpm settings. That means at speeds below 30 mph, if the car is boosting at 10psi, the total psi is 10.1. Helped a lot in traction(rwd). Right now I'm set to 2. My issue now since it's boosting lower than stock, after I pass 30mph, the car jumps into full jb4 boost by rpm setting and tires spins a lot. Took me some time to find the boost sweet spot on my car and as I do more tests, hopefully I can find it again using the new features.

Thank you Terry for the support on our platform. Waiting patiently for the BMS meth solution!
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Default 01-19-2019, 04:46 PM

Thanks for the feedback. We'll continue working on fine tuning the boost by gear functionality!


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ddnspider ddnspider is offline
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Default 01-19-2019, 05:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourg63
Is this with the fuel wires? Looks exactly like my logs (no fuel wires) when the timing drops at around 5400rpm except I'm running a bit more boost with higher AFRs so my timing drop is sharper. I was under the impression that the fuel wires would keep the AFRs at 12.5 throughout the RPM range and reduce the timing drop or was I being too optimistic?
I think I had my fuel control shut off for that log. Looking for Terry to confirm if everything else looks good. I have since turned my fuel control back on. I'm glad to see you said you have a timing drop as well. From what Terry and I have talked about farther back in this thread, it seems like that is a drop in the timing table and not knock retard.
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Cherk947 Cherk947 is offline
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Default 01-19-2019, 07:04 PM

I received by fuel wires today, thanks for the fast shipping, and the install mimics others. The driver's side was simple, the passenger's side was a PIA. I moved the harness as suggested but this is a one hand install for sure. I have no idea if things are working or if I can tell any difference. The weather in Atlanta sucks. I will update after a few days of daily driving.
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junkfoodz junkfoodz is offline
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Default 01-20-2019, 12:03 AM

Hi Terry, does my logs look ok?
Attached Files
File Type: csv 2019-01-19 22_19_52 Map-6.csv (166.1 KB, 70 views)
File Type: csv 2019-01-19 22_46_26 Map-1.csv (268.3 KB, 63 views)
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Fourg63 Fourg63 is offline
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Default 01-20-2019, 02:19 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddnspider
I think I had my fuel control shut off for that log. Looking for Terry to confirm if everything else looks good. I have since turned my fuel control back on. I'm glad to see you said you have a timing drop as well. From what Terry and I have talked about farther back in this thread, it seems like that is a drop in the timing table and not knock retard.
That makes sense. It's definitely not knock as I get it running E85 mix or race fuel. Most likely due to ECU targeting a certain AFR and using timing to get there.
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ddnspider ddnspider is offline
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Default 01-20-2019, 06:38 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourg63
That makes sense. It's definitely not knock as I get it running E85 mix or race fuel. Most likely due to ECU targeting a certain AFR and using timing to get there.
I agree. I was happy to see you post up the same thing on your car.
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