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Default 04-03-2016, 06:52 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZF 335i
Hey guys i am from Australia and heavily involved in the hardware side of the upgrades for these transmissions with Nizpro.
Here are a few shots of the billet input and intermediate shafts Nizpro has ready for the HP19/21.
I will post some more info tonite and show some differences between these and our HP26 stuff and many of the weaknesses that have been identified in the HP19.

Input shafts



Back of input shaft with custom bronze bush



Intermedite shaft with upgraded billet basket

Cool buts not really an issue for us.

Can we see the baskets... Are they larger then stock?

Clutch pack slippage is our issue, how is that going to be addressed because billet inputs shafts aren't gonna make any difference if we can't get the clutchpacks gripping.
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Default 04-03-2016, 06:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by E90gone
Is this something a BMW dealership would have or would it have to come straight from BMW?
Which part you quoted my whole post.


But whatever your talking about absolutely not. BMW isn't giving us any of that.
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ZF 335i ZF 335i is offline
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Default 04-03-2016, 07:04 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by erichale
Will you also be making the billet pan for the HP19 too?
We will be looking at all parts needed for a successful and reliable transmission including the pans mate.
The pans work well on our big HP26 and a customer logged a 15deg cooler trans temp whilst circuit racing last week which is fantastic.
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Default 04-03-2016, 07:10 PM

I'm curious how you incorporated the filter into the billet pan for the HP26. The HP19 pan is the same way


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ZF 335i ZF 335i is offline
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Default 04-03-2016, 07:17 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nniftyfour
Cool buts not really an issue for us.

Can we see the baskets... Are they larger then stock?

Clutch pack slippage is our issue, how is that going to be addressed because billet inputs shafts aren't gonna make any difference if we can't get the clutchpacks gripping.
I understand it may not be a common issue yet but with or without software you guys will start hurting hard parts as these cars get faster i can assure you.
The input shaft in the HP19 has the exact same 22mm diameter spline as the HP26 but the intermediate shaft (4/5/6 gear for those that dont know) is tiny in all aspects and we have concentrated heavily on this.
We want to address a FULL transmission soloution and wont cut corners anywhere. Alot of knowledge has been gained from the HP26 program and we have these big 4000+lb cars running deep 9s at high 150mph.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiXeDAHwjss

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnL_PC4XB30

The clutch issue will be addressed on a number of fronts.

-Drive basket sizing
-friction material and count
-software and calibration
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Default 04-03-2016, 07:48 PM

I be waiting...
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ZF 335i ZF 335i is offline
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Default 04-03-2016, 08:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by erichale
I'm curious how you incorporated the filter into the billet pan for the HP26. The HP19 pan is the same way
There are two different pans for the HP26 here. The early plastic type with incorporated filter like the HP19 and the other a steel one with a seperate filter and no drain plug.
We simply use this later type filter. I would have to have another look at the HP19 and see what filter options we have etc if we were to do a sump for them.
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Default 04-04-2016, 09:45 AM

When are you starting to test the ZF6/19 tranny upgrade with TCM? Please keep posting
progress ..
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Default 04-04-2016, 10:34 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZF 335i
I understand it may not be a common issue yet but with or without software you guys will start hurting hard parts as these cars get faster i can assure you.
The input shaft in the HP19 has the exact same 22mm diameter spline as the HP26 but the intermediate shaft (4/5/6 gear for those that dont know) is tiny in all aspects and we have concentrated heavily on this.
We want to address a FULL transmission soloution and wont cut corners anywhere. Alot of knowledge has been gained from the HP26 program and we have these big 4000+lb cars running deep 9s at high 150mph.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiXeDAHwjss

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnL_PC4XB30

The clutch issue will be addressed on a number of fronts.

-Drive basket sizing
-friction material and count
-software and calibration
Cool, I'm rooting really hard for you guys

Just confirming you understand the encryption on these TCU's? You'll have to do some heavy firmware level writing on this TCU not just table changes like other TCU's. This car runs a RSA protected hash check of the program section of the TCU every time you start the car. I think it's a standard public private key RSA 2048... So..... yeah your not gonna crack it.

Also there's something in the software you'll need to disable for your changes to work. There's an advanced shifting adaptation system for shift control. It targets pre set shift speeds and engagement energy for the solenoids. It's this system that prevents the Level 10 or any Valvebody upgrade from making a significant difference.

For instance if you modify the solenoids (or VB passages) to put out more force at a given solenoid energy level the trans over time will remove energy (Milliamps, power curve) so the solenoid actuates as it designed stock. Same with shift speed, the adaptations will slow the actuation curve of the Solenoid to target a preset shift speed.

Obviously with this system in place you wont be able to increase shift speed.

The tiny bit of good news, having learned a lot about the way BMW writes control software there's almost certainly a logic flag (bit) that can be turned off (set to 0 or maybe another integer, its not always 0) to disable the adaptations.

Honestly I would reach out to Martial of MHD (MHD is the android based ECU flasher for our car) Martial and a guy by the name of Jyamona have the ability to work through our DME assembly language to figure how things work. I'd say the only way you'll ever figure out disabling adaptations is reversing the location via the logic. (Also Martial should be able to help you bypass the RSA encryption as his product MHD does that for our DME's (ECU)

But this is miles more complicated software than any Ford trans unfortunately.
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Default 04-04-2016, 06:35 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nniftyfour
Which part you quoted my whole post.


But whatever your talking about absolutely not. BMW isn't giving us any of that.
You said the code is encrypted, if you had access to say a BMW dealerships diagnostics computer would this allow you the coding you would need or would this have to come from BMW in Germany?

Last edited by E90gone; 04-04-2016 at 06:41 PM..
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Default 04-04-2016, 08:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by E90gone
You said the code is encrypted, if you had access to say a BMW dealerships diagnostics computer would this allow you the coding you would need or would this have to come from BMW in Germany?
Nope the key were looking for is only on a server in germany. And not an accessible one. We'll never get it.

Basically there's two keys. The first is used to create the signature that's what we would need, the other is the verification key it's stored on the tcu and can verify that a file's legit but can't sign anything.

This is called the public and private key. The private key being the one that could sign a file. And the public (verifier) is on the tcu
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E90gone E90gone is offline
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Default 04-04-2016, 08:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nniftyfour
Nope the key were looking for is only on a server in germany. And not an accessible one. We'll never get it.

Basically there's two keys. The first is used to create the signature that's what we would need, the other is the verification key it's stored on the tcu and can verify that a file's legit but can't sign anything.

This is called the public and private key. The private key being the one that could sign a file. And the public (verifier) is on the tcu
Why would BMW not give the access to it? Could you harm them? Or proprietorial information on the transmission?
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ZF 335i ZF 335i is offline
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Default 04-04-2016, 09:17 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nniftyfour
Cool, I'm rooting really hard for you guys

Just confirming you understand the encryption on these TCU's? You'll have to do some heavy firmware level writing on this TCU not just table changes like other TCU's. This car runs a RSA protected hash check of the program section of the TCU every time you start the car. I think it's a standard public private key RSA 2048... So..... yeah your not gonna crack it.

Also there's something in the software you'll need to disable for your changes to work. There's an advanced shifting adaptation system for shift control. It targets pre set shift speeds and engagement energy for the solenoids. It's this system that prevents the Level 10 or any Valvebody upgrade from making a significant difference.

For instance if you modify the solenoids (or VB passages) to put out more force at a given solenoid energy level the trans over time will remove energy (Milliamps, power curve) so the solenoid actuates as it designed stock. Same with shift speed, the adaptations will slow the actuation curve of the Solenoid to target a preset shift speed.

Obviously with this system in place you wont be able to increase shift speed.

The tiny bit of good news, having learned a lot about the way BMW writes control software there's almost certainly a logic flag (bit) that can be turned off (set to 0 or maybe another integer, its not always 0) to disable the adaptations.

Honestly I would reach out to Martial of MHD (MHD is the android based ECU flasher for our car) Martial and a guy by the name of Jyamona have the ability to work through our DME assembly language to figure how things work. I'd say the only way you'll ever figure out disabling adaptations is reversing the location via the logic. (Also Martial should be able to help you bypass the RSA encryption as his product MHD does that for our DME's (ECU)

But this is miles more complicated software than any Ford trans unfortunately.
As i said in my OP i am involved with alot of the hardware upgrade stuff mate and software isnt my forte.
I thankyou for your comments and have passed them on. We didnt have any software in the Fords for well over 5yrs and went down the same paths of valve body mods and hit the same brickwalls as you guys have. The Ford stuff is just as complex and there have been guys translating unamed tables from German and all sorts of stuff for many years.
Becuase of all that hard work we now have boost via gear and heaps of fancy features that has been decoded and added over time for the HP26
Time will only tell how the BMW stuff goes.

Even if software was released tomorrow i can guarantee 95% of the cars would break the transmissions and hence why the hardware developement is just as important as the software for any form of service life.

Here is an example of just how small the HP19 intermediate shaft is and its E clutch basket.
Note the diameter difference and then imagine that we can break those in a HP26 on a big power WOT 3/4 shift. Even the Jaguar guys have been breaking them for years.





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Default 04-05-2016, 07:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by E90gone
Why would BMW not give the access to it? Could you harm them? Or proprietorial information on the transmission?
Exactly proprietary information. From what I understand most manufacturers use ZF's base software and fill in the calibration. But BMW modified the base software and brought it to another level of refinement.

After all you got to admit in 2007 the automatic in the 3 series was better then any other interpretation of the ZF 6speed at the time. Particularly the Alpina files.

Nizpro, ZF 335i- I'll try and help with any questions you have, but let's just hope martial figures out how to bypass the encryption. The ford's and such don't have that layer. It's a royal PITA, thankfully someone who has a solid chance of beating it (martial) was talked into trying a few months ago.

Can we get Martial in here for a TCU update, he'll probably be happy to hear that Nizpro should be capable of making sense of the calibration and instead he can focus on bypassing encryption and get flashing going.

@MHD
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Default 04-06-2016, 03:56 PM

Nizpro, hands down has what it takes as far as hardware, some of there cars are 9sec cars, cant do that without a solid trans but like everyone is saying what about the software? Nniftyfour what is your "background" experience with all this techy stuff? what do think are the chances of the tcu being broken into and modified? Or is it less of a headache of developing some sort of standalone system?
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Default 04-07-2016, 06:02 AM

Why can't we just adopt the HP26 into our cars like they are in the 335d/535d and the 545/550/645/650s?

Granted the TCU, tranny, driveshaft, diff, and half shafts would all have to come from the same donor car but I don't see why this wouldn't be a viable option? Especially with NizPro pushing 1000whp Falcons running bottom 9s @ 150+




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Default 04-07-2016, 09:25 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitemare
Why can't we just adopt the HP26 into our cars like they are in the 335d/535d and the 545/550/645/650s?

Granted the TCU, tranny, driveshaft, diff, and half shafts would all have to come from the same donor car but I don't see why this wouldn't be a viable option? Especially with NizPro pushing 1000whp Falcons running bottom 9s @ 150+
does it fit?
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Default 04-07-2016, 11:15 PM

I feel like we have a much better chance of someone creating a standalone 6HP19/21 controller than we do cracking the TCU's encryption. If we had that, it would be simple:

1) Code the car as a manual
2) Install standalone transmission controller
3) Have all the transmission control you could ever want


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Default 04-08-2016, 04:55 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 07tundra
does it fit?
I don't see why not? They are installed in the diesel E90 and v8/diesel E60 platforms.




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Default 04-08-2016, 05:38 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmac @ BMS/DMD
I feel like we have a much better chance of someone creating a standalone 6HP19/21 controller than we do cracking the TCU's encryption. If we had that, it would be simple:

1) Code the car as a manual
2) Install standalone transmission controller
3) Have all the transmission control you could ever want
This.


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Default 04-11-2016, 09:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nniftyfour
Can we get Martial in here for a TCU update, he'll probably be happy to hear that Nizpro should be capable of making sense of the calibration and instead he can focus on bypassing encryption and get flashing going.

@MHD
For now I have stopped for now after seeing that the TCU program is decompressed on the fly, requiring a decompressor to be written to be able to read the ASM and start working on hacking the protections. Looks like I need to learn more about what and how things were done on Fords.
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Default 04-12-2016, 06:39 AM

It looks like NIZPRO will be the only one in in here??
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Default 05-23-2016, 02:38 AM

Thought it time for a quick update on what has been happening lately at Nizpro with the ZF transmissions.

First up last week we ran the first 8sec pass with a ZF6HP26!!!
Full street car that weights 4200lbs and managed an amazing 8.90 @ 157mph!





Everyone involved is very proud of this milestone.

And in other news closer to home for you guys i can now confirm as of today that ZF HP19/21 OBD trans flashing is now a reality!!!!!

Exciting times ahead!
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Default 05-23-2016, 04:55 AM

Very impressive! I can not wait to see what you guys can pull together for us!!!


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Default 05-23-2016, 07:44 AM

"And in other news closer to home for you guys i can now confirm as of today that ZF HP19/21 OBD trans flashing is now a reality!!!!!"


Did you crack the encryption? We're talking more here than an Alpina flash right?


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