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Deen@StreetKingImports Deen@StreetKingImports is offline
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Default 02-24-2016, 10:14 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Sure, they are in the 2/23 release. I'll have to talk to Martial about making the KR changes a flash time check box to eliminate the need to have a separate version of each map.
Thanks a bunch, I really appreciate it. Even though I could tell a huge difference with the knock table changes I rather be safe than sorry.
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triggz triggz is offline
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Default 02-24-2016, 10:59 AM

Terry what about 94+Meth on stock turbos?


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Default 02-24-2016, 11:15 AM

You'll use the RACE flash. With the latest map posting only maps with [KR] in the title have altered knock sensor feedback.


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AbacusRacingN54 AbacusRacingN54 is offline
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Default 02-24-2016, 12:29 PM

Can't wait to try new stuff

Last edited by AbacusRacingN54; 02-24-2016 at 12:44 PM..
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JayJ JayJ is offline
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Default 02-24-2016, 01:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
You'll use the RACE flash. With the latest map posting only maps with [KR] in the title have altered knock sensor feedback.
Only E85 maps are currently designated KR? None of the pump or race files show KR designation.
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Default 02-24-2016, 02:27 PM

Correct, didn't want to save a KR version of each map, just yet. Only the E85 KR maps are posted so far.


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Default 02-24-2016, 03:40 PM

Strapped the car down today for a little dyno testing. As a reminder the test car is a 2008 135i automatic with 98k miles on the clock. Hardware is 100% stock except for a DCI. It even has the stock chargepipe currently. Fuel is 91 octane with 1 can of NOS octane booster which historically models 93 octane very well. Temps in the low 80s. As time was limited I only did 1-2 runs on each setup so keep in mind adaption is a factor especially with the stock flash maps.

Also I should mention there are some problems with the MHD v5 flash maps with the boost target & knock tables so out of fairness I will wait for the MHD v6 maps before doing a comparison with them. They are aware of the issues and will resolve them in v6 which I'll evaluate when released. I thought I might test the Cobb OTS maps but can't find my old Cobb unit and frankly does anyone still run those anyway given MHD is 1/4th the price and better supported?

Stock flash: First test was stock flash just to baseline the vehicle. It did 295whp which is as expected.

JB4 map1: This map runs 13psi peak and is largely unchanged since 2008. Cars have logged literally tens of millions of hard miles on it without issue. Interestingly it put down 344whp which is basically the same as it made in 2008 with the first JB4 system. Log looks fairly normal for map1 without a back end flash. Timing is converging to a 6 degrees ramping up to 11 degrees curve which nicely matches the 13psi peak tapering to 9psi boost curve. With a few more runs we'd see the long term octane adaption kick in smoothing the timing curve out.

JB4 map2: This map runs 14.5psi peak and is also largely unchanged since 2008. In this particular application it would be considered too aggressive. Normally *** are required. It put down 360whp and as you can see in the log timing is more volatile. With more runs you'd see the DME having a hard time stabilizing timing without *** or more octane.

With the baselines out of the way I moved on to the more interesting stuff. The PUMP back end flash map. I'm using the 2/23 map which are basically the same as previous maps only we undid any knock sensor adjustments that were in place.

JB4 BEF Map1: This setup runs 15psi peak tapering to around 13psi up top, with a 4 degrees ramping up to 9 degrees timing curve, before any IAT timing decay. Compared to the JB4 only map1 we also run a richer AFR, incorporate the popular VANOS changes, and a few other minor changes. The net result was 367whp.

JB4 BEF Map2: This setup runs 17psi peak tapering to around 14psi up top, and like JB4 map2 is considered aggressive for this setup. The log reflects the lower average timing and steeper drops (4.5 degrees instead of 3 degrees for minor drops). The net power result was 368whp. This setup with an IC & *** we would expect to make 380-400whp normally.

Once the MHD v6 maps are done I'll conduct the same tests with them, and while I wait will continue working on improving our PUMP BEF setup.
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Default 02-24-2016, 03:47 PM

Dammit man. I like your style.


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Default 02-24-2016, 03:56 PM

Nice comparisons, Terry. Personally I think you're being overly kind in waiting for the new MHD maps as the comparisons made in the other thread, ie. those that brought about need for these tests, was based on what is currently available.
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Default 02-24-2016, 04:02 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Element
Nice comparisons, Terry. Personally I think you're being overly kind in waiting for the new MHD maps as the comparisons made in the other thread, ie. those that brought about need for these tests, was based on what is currently available.
While I agree to an extent Martial and I have a positive relationship and if he says the problem is known and being corrected I don't think its fair to make a big deal out of it. Besides we're both working with moving targets here.


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It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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andym3100k andym3100k is offline
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Thumbs up 02-24-2016, 04:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
While I agree to an extent Martial and I have a positive relationship and if he says the problem is known and being corrected I don't think its fair to make a big deal out of it. Besides we're both working with moving targets here.
+12345


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Default 02-24-2016, 04:41 PM

Awesome. Would love to see some comparisons between an E85 map and an E85 map with E85 backend flash. Or power difference between E85 BEF and E85 BEF with adjusted knock tables.


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ShocknAwe ShocknAwe is offline
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Default 02-24-2016, 05:31 PM

Hm. Might need to get my car out to a dyno. What I'd really like is to get a pump BEF setup to consistently hit 400/400 on stocks. Looking forward to your further work.


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Default 02-24-2016, 05:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by suspenceful
Awesome. Would love to see some comparisons between an E85 map and an E85 map with E85 backend flash. Or power difference between E85 BEF and E85 BEF with adjusted knock tables.
We've posted E85 runs on the same car before. Made 405whp on E40 with the BEF IIRC. Don't think we ever tested it on E85 without the BEF but we can do that if there is interest. I figured anyone reading this thread is mainly interested in BEF stuff.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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AbacusRacingN54 AbacusRacingN54 is offline
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Default 02-24-2016, 05:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
We've posted E85 runs on the same car before. Made 405whp on E40 with the BEF IIRC. Don't think we ever tested it on E85 without the BEF but we can do that if there is interest. I figured anyone reading this thread is mainly interested in BEF stuff.
Please keep this to PUMP bef... alot more guys are looking for gas numbers and still be daily without mixing fuels
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Default 02-24-2016, 06:11 PM

This thread will stay PUMP focused but we're good at juggling lots of projects.


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Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 02-24-2016, 07:27 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
We've posted E85 runs on the same car before. Made 405whp on E40 with the BEF IIRC. Don't think we ever tested it on E85 without the BEF but we can do that if there is interest. I figured anyone reading this thread is mainly interested in BEF stuff.
Good to know, haven't seen the results. I'm curious how much more power it would gain with ***, FMIC and CP. I'll be hopping on the dyno soon with JB4 + E85 BEF. I'm FBO with inlets.

Thanks for the constant JB4 R&D!


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Default 02-24-2016, 07:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
We've posted E85 runs on the same car before. Made 405whp on E40 with the BEF IIRC. Don't think we ever tested it on E85 without the BEF but we can do that if there is interest. I figured anyone reading this thread is mainly interested in BEF stuff.
I'm very interested in before/after E85 BEF knock revision.
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Default 02-24-2016, 07:32 PM

Nice! I'm just waiting on someone to help streamline something for us guys with Inlets who are too dumb to mess with FOL, PID's and what not for Pump Gas.
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Cloud9Blue Cloud9Blue is offline
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Default 02-24-2016, 07:36 PM

Would be curious to see what the some of the common FBO mods do for the peak tq and hp, and also what it does for the power curve as well.

The data on actual benefits of some of the bolt-on mods are pretty outdated by now and would be interested and helpful for the newcomers on this platform.


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gunda gunda is offline
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Default 02-24-2016, 08:08 PM

This is simply with you go with a JB4, all questions that the average customer has is always tested & compared to with data to support it.

Great work Terry, we all appreciate you being very open with your testing and improvements. Definitely #1 in my books for post purchase support.
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Default 02-24-2016, 08:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enfiftyfore
I'm very interested in before/after E85 BEF knock revision.
Well, here is a log a customer ran today on 100% E85 with port injection, stock turbos, the non-KR E85 BEF. Timing in 5th sticks at 0 post shift. Needless to say he's going back to the KR map.
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It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 02-24-2016, 08:49 PM

is the PI the TB kit or Direct Port? I'm curious as to the cyl 5 thing.


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Default 02-24-2016, 08:54 PM

Port injection. On 100% E85 with such low boost and timing this is very likely false knock. To verify he'd have to do a log on say map1 and if the drops are still there he'd know for sure.


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It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 02-24-2016, 08:59 PM

Great thread been anxious to see something like this.. keep the improvments, the excelent work and the comparisons rolling.


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