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Mauricio @ MMP's Avatar
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Cool MM Performance upgraded inlets + Wedge tune on stock turbos dyno results - 03-23-2015, 08:49 AM

So I told everyone as soon as I got my car sorted out I would go to the dyno and got it sorted out this weekend with the big help of wedge and went to the dyno first thing this morning. My car's misfires and fuel issues on the Procede and on the JB4 were solved by doing a flash only tune. If T is up for it, I'm willing to put the JB4 back on and fix the issues it was having and even dyno to see if it can make the same power but for now Wedge takes the cake. Funny, right now I have a Procede with backend E85 flash, JB4 G5 ISO with backend E85 flash and wedge tune I have tried all back to back, and wedge tune is amazing in low end boost response, makes the turbo spool sound incredibly amazing, and boost delivery and control is so silky smooth, very impressed with his tunes. Also I am using the MHD tool and it is awesome.

Any ways back to the dyno results. Below is a 4th gear comparison of my best dyno run before inlets in 4th gear and the two good runs I had today with the new inlets in 4th gear. As you can see picked up power across the board. max horsepower +32whp, midrange, +51whp, top end just before 6k +23whp, max torque +22wtq. Also is a dyno from from the previous dyno session without inlets were i did a pull with stock tuning on full bolt ons and 100% E85 and you can see made just over 300whp which is par for the course for a dyno jet on car with those mods so dyno doesnt read abnormally high. Overall very happy with results. After discussing the results and logs with wedge today after the dyno, we both agree there is a possibility for a dyno glory run in a couple weeks with more tuning to try and get over 500whp magic barrier for stock turbos. We will try to tune and dyno test over the next couple weeks or so to see if we can brake that limit on the dyno Going to be fun trying.

I have been trying to blow these turbos since September of last year running really high WGDC and boost and that's how i got the previous non-inlet dyno results but the turbos wont blow. Every time i drop the *** (3 times in past couple months) I check shaft play and no issues and no smoke out exhaust. Amazing little suckers. If you want to know what my setup is, check my other thread out with the inlets here and you can get info about buying the inlets here as well.

Also keep in mind that my compression and leakdown test results (results posted in my support thread I opened in support section) were not too great indicating possible some worn piston rings on a couple cylinders or valve guide seals so with a better condition engine, probably more ponies to be had

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28827
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Stock Turbo 500whp 540wtq with MMP inlets
http://mmp-e.com
  • inlets (high flow and one piece silicone)
  • high flow outlets
  • turbo development

Last edited by Mauricio @ MMP; 03-23-2015 at 09:07 AM..
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Default 03-23-2015, 08:54 AM

impressive results


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Default 03-23-2015, 09:14 AM

Damn!! Great results!!
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Default 03-23-2015, 09:23 AM

+51 Hp in the mids with one modification is very impressive.
Do you have IAT or at least temp recording from the day of the dynos?
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Default 03-23-2015, 09:34 AM

Never mind on the temp data. I just read the part that these numbers are on different tunes.
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Default 03-23-2015, 09:38 AM

72F, also I'm 6AT so 3% more drivetrain loss than MT. And gearing in 4th I thinkn is about 1.14 where on MT it's 1.0


Stock Turbo 500whp 540wtq with MMP inlets
http://mmp-e.com
  • inlets (high flow and one piece silicone)
  • high flow outlets
  • turbo development

Last edited by Mauricio @ MMP; 03-23-2015 at 10:27 AM..
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Default 03-23-2015, 09:50 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by WastEd
+51 Hp in the mids with one modification is very impressive.
I wouldn't call that a 'one' modification, many things need to be relocated and rerouted...


Garage Queen: Audi S4 4.2L V8, Vortech Supercharger, Bilstein PSS9 Coilovers, Sway-bars, RS4 brakes and rear BBK, Fast Intentions - Full Exhaust, 505AWTQ 0-60: 3.8s
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Default 03-23-2015, 10:25 AM

Considering my pull was in 5th .87:1 for the dyno record and the fact that there is loss due to gearing in 4th 1.14:1 on AT vs MT 1.00:1, this is clearly a Stock Turbo Dynojet World Record. I know a few people won't agree with me, but the numbers don't lie. I was also -2500 DA the day I pulled. It was cold and I even pulled my filters to get an extra 3 whp. With -DA and 5th gear I would put this over or very close to 500 whp as is. Considering we can still get a bit more WGDC leads me to believe 500+ is not out of the question with all things being equal. Next time we need a 4th / 5th gear AT comparison so we can take an average # to compare with MT results. I think everyone would agree that and average of the two gears would be the best way to compare whp with an MT considering the gearing difference.

Bottom line, nice results and proven power increases over stock inlets. Big props to MHD Flasher also. It's really nice to have a flash based solution that opens up the doors to new development. Boost is Boost regardless of how you make it, but without all of the other table changes to support the boost, the numbers wouldn't be possible.
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Default 03-23-2015, 10:59 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CHECKERED
I wouldn't call that a 'one' modification, many things need to be relocated and rerouted...
One modification being the power adder of inlets alone.
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Default 03-23-2015, 11:03 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by WastEd
Never mind on the temp data. I just read the part that these numbers are on different tunes.
The inlets alone don't give power, it's the boost the inlets allow you to run that does and wedge was a master of bringing that out. Wedge was shocked when he saw the logs, quote "the fact that your 3-4 psi higher at 6k with the same WGDC I ran is like finding a 747 5mil years ago" referring to his record setting stock turbo dyno run


Stock Turbo 500whp 540wtq with MMP inlets
http://mmp-e.com
  • inlets (high flow and one piece silicone)
  • high flow outlets
  • turbo development
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Torgus Torgus is offline
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Default 03-23-2015, 11:05 AM

can we see a log?


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Default 03-23-2015, 11:11 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by slicksilver
The inlets alone don't give power, it's the boost the inlets allow you to run that does and wedge was a master of bringing that out. Wedge was shocked when he saw the logs, quote "the fact that your 3-4 psi higher at 6k with the same WGDC I ran is like finding a 747 5mil years ago" referring to his record setting stock turbo dyno run
My quote you referenced was pointing out that these runs were on different tunes. I was hoping for an apples to apples comparison of the inlet change alone but with the different tune added that makes any other variables at the time of the dyno mute.

Even still its impressive power.
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Default 03-23-2015, 11:17 AM

Well in my inlet thread you will find a proceed to proceed log comparison of with and without inlets.


Stock Turbo 500whp 540wtq with MMP inlets
http://mmp-e.com
  • inlets (high flow and one piece silicone)
  • high flow outlets
  • turbo development
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Default 03-23-2015, 11:19 AM

nice work Wedge & OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wedge1967
Considering my pull was in 5th .87:1 for the dyno record and the fact that there is loss due to gearing in 4th 1.14:1 on AT vs MT 1.00:1, this is clearly a Stock Turbo Dynojet World Record. I know a few people won't agree with me, but the numbers don't lie. I was also -2500 DA the day I pulled. It was cold and I even pulled my filters to get an extra 3 whp. With -DA and 5th gear I would put this over or very close to 500 whp as is. Considering we can still get a bit more WGDC leads me to believe 500+ is not out of the question with all things being equal. Next time we need a 4th / 5th gear AT comparison so we can take an average # to compare with MT results. I think everyone would agree that and average of the two gears would be the best way to compare whp with an MT considering the gearing difference.

Bottom line, nice results and proven power increases over stock inlets. Big props to MHD Flasher also. It's really nice to have a flash based solution that opens up the doors to new development. Boost is Boost regardless of how you make it, but without all of the other table changes to support the boost, the numbers wouldn't be possible.


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Default 03-23-2015, 11:27 AM

So was the new tune boost PSI the same as the previous Dyno?
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Default 03-23-2015, 11:45 AM

It looks like the new intakes work well! Post the logs of the runs so we can see what sort of boost & timing its running.

On the tuning end these days any tune can be set to run the same curves. It's a matter of what features you get. Can you change the mapping on the fly when desired? Can you limit boost to 10psi in 1st or 2nd gear so you have a chance at launching it? Can you see boost & timing in dash so you know its not over boosting or knocking deep in to a long pull? Can the tune shut itself down if boost spikes too high, AFR leans out, or fuel pressure drops below a threshold?

To run > 20psi safely with the JB4 you'll need a 3.5bar TMAP sensor. As long as you have that I'd be happy to help you out. You could even use the existing flash and targets Wedge has programmed and have the JB4 only in there for features if you prefer.

Another factor is always how the setup responds during an actual race. Grab some 2-3-4 logs as well so you can evaluate that end.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 03-23-2015, 11:45 AM

You completely removed the jb4 or did you change the 4/2 4/3 settings?


~MHD Stage 2+~3.5 Bar Tmap~PR Ignition Kit~VTT Inlets~VTT Cast Valve Cover~VTT Dual CC~XClutch Twin Disk~BMS Short Shifter~ER Competition FMIC Kit w/ HKS SSQV~3"AR DP's~3" Custom exhaust~Fuel-It Stage 2 Bucket~
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Default 03-23-2015, 12:05 PM

old dyno run on maxed out turbos 1st log below. New dyno run maxed out turbos 2nd log below, more boost and less WGDC up top where HP is made in that 5000-6000rpm range for max hp, that's what my new inlets allow. The key is holding onto as much torque as possible as deep into the rpm as possible to make more power
Attached Images
  


Stock Turbo 500whp 540wtq with MMP inlets
http://mmp-e.com
  • inlets (high flow and one piece silicone)
  • high flow outlets
  • turbo development
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Default 03-23-2015, 12:11 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
It looks like the new intakes work well! Post the logs of the runs so we can see what sort of boost & timing its running.

On the tuning end these days any tune can be set to run the same curves. It's a matter of what features you get. Can you change the mapping on the fly when desired? Can you limit boost to 10psi in 1st or 2nd gear so you have a chance at launching it? Can you see boost & timing in dash so you know its not over boosting or knocking deep in to a long pull? Can the tune shut itself down if boost spikes too high, AFR leans out, or fuel pressure drops below a threshold?

To run > 20psi safely with the JB4 you'll need a 3.5bar TMAP sensor. As long as you have that I'd be happy to help you out. You could even use the existing flash and targets Wedge has programmed and have the JB4 only in there for features if you prefer.

Another factor is always how the setup responds during an actual race. Grab some 2-3-4 logs as well so you can evaluate that end.
Yeah i'd be happy to continue to work with you as we were. I was just impatient to get on the dyno and noticed when running the backend flashes only I got no misfires and codes like I did running with either piggback system. Not sure why that is but I'm sure we can figure it out with logs and custom tuning etc. The sensor arrived today but the harness I bought from you was delayed in the mail so will get it in a couple days I hope. I have some 3, 4, 5 logs (2 no traction!) and they look good with good AFRs and timing curves and PLENTY of BOOST Currently running 10deg ramp to 13deg timing. I will need a way to tune my hybrids into the 30psi range and currently I decided the JB4 is the way to get until something changes on the flash side so I have an interest in getting JB4 to work also with your help.


Stock Turbo 500whp 540wtq with MMP inlets
http://mmp-e.com
  • inlets (high flow and one piece silicone)
  • high flow outlets
  • turbo development
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Default 03-23-2015, 12:12 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DV135i
You completely removed the jb4 or did you change the 4/2 4/3 settings?
completely removed and did flash only


Stock Turbo 500whp 540wtq with MMP inlets
http://mmp-e.com
  • inlets (high flow and one piece silicone)
  • high flow outlets
  • turbo development
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Default 03-23-2015, 12:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by slicksilver
completely removed and did flash only
damn, Ive noticed a couple weird hiccups my car always seems to have when I'm using the jb4. I like all of the added extras aside from tuning it offers, so I've been trying to deal with it in hopes that I could fix things to get them running perfect agan. I guess its good to here flash tuning is coming along, but sucks that it seems ditching the jb4 is best for now.


~MHD Stage 2+~3.5 Bar Tmap~PR Ignition Kit~VTT Inlets~VTT Cast Valve Cover~VTT Dual CC~XClutch Twin Disk~BMS Short Shifter~ER Competition FMIC Kit w/ HKS SSQV~3"AR DP's~3" Custom exhaust~Fuel-It Stage 2 Bucket~
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Default 03-23-2015, 12:20 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by slicksilver
Yeah i'd be happy to continue to work with you as we were. I was just impatient to get on the dyno and noticed when running the backend flashes only I got no misfires and codes like I did running with either piggback system. Not sure why that is but I'm sure we can figure it out with logs and custom tuning etc. The sensor arrived today but the harness I bought from you was delayed in the mail so will get it in a couple days I hope. I have some 3, 4, 5 logs (2 no traction!) and they look good with good AFRs and timing curves and PLENTY of BOOST Currently running 10deg ramp to 13deg timing. I will need a way to tune my hybrids into the 30psi range and currently I decided the JB4 is the way to get until something changes on the flash side so I have an interest in getting JB4 to work also with your help.
Are you running out of the sensor range currently flash only or is it using normal DME PID targeting? Post a link to the logs so I can checkout the details. If you have logs with shifts those would be good too.

To start just throw the JB4 on with the back end flash settings, 3.5bar enabled, and grab some logs on map 1, and we can see where it's at.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 03-23-2015, 12:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DV135i
damn, Ive noticed a couple weird hiccups my car always seems to have when I'm using the jb4. I like all of the added extras aside from tuning it offers, so I've been trying to deal with it in hopes that I could fix things to get them running perfect agan. I guess its good to here flash tuning is coming along, but sucks that it seems ditching the jb4 is best for now.
What hiccups?


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Mauricio @ MMP's Avatar
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Default 03-23-2015, 12:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DV135i
damn, Ive noticed a couple weird hiccups my car always seems to have when I'm using the jb4. I like all of the added extras aside from tuning it offers, so I've been trying to deal with it in hopes that I could fix things to get them running perfect agan. I guess its good to here flash tuning is coming along, but sucks that it seems ditching the jb4 is best for now.
I wouldn't ditch it, but you may consider try flash tune only to see if you have same issues or not and like T said, you can maybe add the JB on top for features only, as long as it doesn't cause the same issues again, assuming flash solves the issues. LOL, lots of assumptions in this paragraph.


Stock Turbo 500whp 540wtq with MMP inlets
http://mmp-e.com
  • inlets (high flow and one piece silicone)
  • high flow outlets
  • turbo development
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Mauricio @ MMP's Avatar
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Default 03-23-2015, 12:24 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Are you running out of the sensor range currently flash only or is it using normal DME PID targeting? Post a link to the logs so I can checkout the details. If you have logs with shifts those would be good too.

To start just throw the JB4 on with the back end flash settings, 3.5bar enabled, and grab some logs on map 1, and we can see where it's at.
it goes above the sensor range in lower rpm as you can see by how much WGDC is being run in low rpm in logs posted above. Will work with you privately through email when ready to tune the JB4 again with the new sensor.


Stock Turbo 500whp 540wtq with MMP inlets
http://mmp-e.com
  • inlets (high flow and one piece silicone)
  • high flow outlets
  • turbo development
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