N54Tech.com - International Turbo Racing Discussion
(#51)
Old
Terry @ BMS's Avatar
Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
Tuner
 
Posts: 32,390
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default 03-25-2015, 01:02 PM

It can enable the meth pump but there is no safety. 2STEP should work. Try it.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
Reply With Quote
(#52)
Old
Fmonteiro444's Avatar
Fmonteiro444 Fmonteiro444 is offline
Senior Member
 
Posts: 639
Join Date: Aug 2013
Car: 09 E92 SG
Default 03-25-2015, 01:05 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
It can enable the meth pump but there is no safety. 2STEP should work. Try it.
Would it still use the settings under the meth tab like boost additive?


----------------------------------------------------
14 F30 335xi AT- Built Closed-Deck N55, SpeedTech Stage 3 w/ BW-8374C, MHD Flash, xHP Flash, E85, AFE Intake, VRSF 6" Race FMIC, VRSF CP, Fuel-it Stage 2 LPFP and PI
----------------------------------------------------
16 Audi S6 - APR Stage 2 ECU/TCU flash, APR Exhaust, SRM Intakes
Reply With Quote
(#53)
Old
houtan houtan is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 452
Join Date: Sep 2014
Car: 135i
Default 03-25-2015, 01:17 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
To that end I'd rather spend the engineering time developing new and innovative features to appeal to would be flash only customers as I'm confident the demand will be there.
Are you considering bringing these innovative features to the n55 crowd as well? We are already missing 6 cylinder logging. Happy for the n54 crowd, but Just trying to get a feel of what is down the road for the n55s.
Reply With Quote
(#54)
Old
Terry @ BMS's Avatar
Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
Tuner
 
Posts: 32,390
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default 03-25-2015, 01:31 PM

The N55 is a few years behind the N54. I don't know when things will improve for the N55, but we own several for development purposes and work on them as time permits.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
Reply With Quote
(#55)
Old
Terry @ BMS's Avatar
Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
Tuner
 
Posts: 32,390
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default 03-25-2015, 01:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fmonteiro444
Would it still use the settings under the meth tab like boost additive?
No those would not be relevant anymore. Just the min boost before meth can activate setting.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
Reply With Quote
(#56)
Old
marconi118 marconi118 is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 52
Join Date: Dec 2010
Default 03-26-2015, 11:49 AM

and developing a beta firmware for us enthusiasts? without any support

would it be costly?

cantool already reads boost from CAN
Reply With Quote
(#57)
Old
Terry @ BMS's Avatar
Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
Tuner
 
Posts: 32,390
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default 03-26-2015, 11:50 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by marconi118
and developing a beta firmware for us enthusiasts? without any support

would it be costly?

cantool already reads boost from CAN
How about I give it a firm maybe?


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
Reply With Quote
(#58)
Old
mike082802 mike082802 is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 262
Join Date: Apr 2014
Car: vw passat
Default 03-26-2015, 05:37 PM

so if i am trying out the mhd e40 tune would i want option A or B? and the two hex files in the first post, is the first option A and the second option B.

with option A does the flash control wgdc?
Reply With Quote
(#59)
Old
Mauricio @ MMP's Avatar
Mauricio @ MMP Mauricio @ MMP is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 478
Join Date: Aug 2009
Car: 335i Cp TiAg JB3 DCI
Default 03-27-2015, 08:47 AM

Terry, can you please adjust the firmware for 3.5bar sensor so that it works when the flash has been scaled for the 3.5 bar voltages? Issue is when running option B map 0, car wont run.


Stock Turbo 500whp 540wtq with MMP inlets
http://mmp-e.com
  • inlets (high flow and one piece silicone)
  • high flow outlets
  • turbo development
Reply With Quote
(#60)
Old
Terry @ BMS's Avatar
Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
Tuner
 
Posts: 32,390
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default 03-27-2015, 08:52 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by slicksilver
Terry, can you please adjust the firmware for 3.5bar sensor so that it works when the flash has been scaled for the 3.5 bar voltages? Issue is when running option B map 0, car wont run.
I don't foresee doing that as there are several technical issues with it. Scale your flash map for the OEM sensor and then have the JB4 do the MAP sensor scaling conversion.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
Reply With Quote
(#61)
Old
Terry @ BMS's Avatar
Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
Tuner
 
Posts: 32,390
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default 03-27-2015, 09:03 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike082802
so if i am trying out the mhd e40 tune would i want option A or B? and the two hex files in the first post, is the first option A and the second option B.

with option A does the flash control wgdc?
Probably option B to test a stand alone flash map.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
Reply With Quote
(#62)
Old
mike082802 mike082802 is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 262
Join Date: Apr 2014
Car: vw passat
Default 03-27-2015, 12:03 PM

but does jb4 control wgdc with option A?
Reply With Quote
(#63)
Old
Fmonteiro444's Avatar
Fmonteiro444 Fmonteiro444 is offline
Senior Member
 
Posts: 639
Join Date: Aug 2013
Car: 09 E92 SG
Default 03-27-2015, 12:05 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike082802
but does jb4 control wgdc with option A?
From what I read, yes.


----------------------------------------------------
14 F30 335xi AT- Built Closed-Deck N55, SpeedTech Stage 3 w/ BW-8374C, MHD Flash, xHP Flash, E85, AFE Intake, VRSF 6" Race FMIC, VRSF CP, Fuel-it Stage 2 LPFP and PI
----------------------------------------------------
16 Audi S6 - APR Stage 2 ECU/TCU flash, APR Exhaust, SRM Intakes
Reply With Quote
(#64)
Old
Terry @ BMS's Avatar
Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
Tuner
 
Posts: 32,390
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default 03-27-2015, 05:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike082802
but does jb4 control wgdc with option A?
Yes, so no tuning is required.

Just as an aside I've seen some pretty scary logs under option B from those who were previously running custom flash tuning. You just can't safely tune an N54 without an active PID system targeting an actual boost set point. That said being able to monitor true boost values is an absolute requirement for anyone running flash only. When the log says 21psi it could be 21psi or it could be 25psi or it could be 36psi. You'd never know. I'd strongly suggest anyone running aggressive boost levels on a flash tune to invest in a real boost gauge if they don't want to use a JB4 for logging.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
Reply With Quote
(#65)
Old
kenjermen's Avatar
kenjermen kenjermen is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 399
Join Date: Aug 2014
Car: 2009 BMW 335i
Default 03-28-2015, 10:25 PM

if i do a wedge flash with option b will i be able to log with the jb4? so will the hijacking boost gauge be off once in option b?


2009 BMW 335I with: MHD/Haltech,
precision 6870 turbo, jp Workz header,
Wagner EVO II intercooler,HKS exhaust with cutouts, stage 3 lpfp, wavtech lsd, eospeed intake manifold with fuel return and 60lb injectors
Reply With Quote
(#66)
Old
Terry @ BMS's Avatar
Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
Tuner
 
Posts: 32,390
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default 03-28-2015, 10:44 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjermen
if i do a wedge flash with option b will i be able to log with the jb4? so will the hijacking boost gauge be off once in option b?
Yes you'll log and use gauges with the JB4 as you normally would.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
Reply With Quote
(#67)
Old
Spxxx's Avatar
Spxxx Spxxx is offline
Senior Member
 
Posts: 711
Join Date: Mar 2014
Car: E92 335i
Default 04-01-2015, 08:25 AM

So with option A, the jb4 I still controlling the WGs it's just targeting what the flash tells it to? The DME isn't controlling wgdc


M-Sport 135i - N54 - FBO - E60 - Mfactory LSD - MHD - JB4 - SPX Tuned
Reply With Quote
(#68)
Old
Terry @ BMS's Avatar
Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
Tuner
 
Posts: 32,390
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default 04-01-2015, 09:45 AM

Correct.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
Reply With Quote
(#69)
Old
Robert's Avatar
Robert Robert is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 105
Join Date: Apr 2010
Car: bmw
Default 04-01-2015, 10:12 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spxxx
So with option A, the jb4 I still controlling the WGs it's just targeting what the flash tells it to? The DME isn't controlling wgdc
Can we run BMS meth using option A over MHD flash ???
If yes. Which map would be appropriate ???


2008 e92/MHD Wedge E85/Alpina TCU /RB Inlets/MMP Outlets/Vrsf DP/Helix FMIC/Forge DV/BMS CP/DCI/Fuel It st2/TBI/TC Kline/Swift SA coils/MF lsd/Hotchkis sway bars/M3 front and rear links/ Diff LDK/AKG Race subf/diff bushings/Megan toe links /TSW18 forged Nurburring/Mich PSS 245/265 /BMW(Brembo)M perf 370mm BBK
Reply With Quote
(#70)
Old
Terry @ BMS's Avatar
Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
Tuner
 
Posts: 32,390
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default 04-01-2015, 11:08 AM

The MHD maps intended as stand alone maps are not going to be optimal for meth. If you want to use meth you should use an appropriate back end flash map. We're testing MHD specific higher load maps currently so that would make the most sense.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
Reply With Quote
(#71)
Old
Terry @ BMS's Avatar
Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
Tuner
 
Posts: 32,390
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default 04-03-2015, 09:29 AM

We've had a few customers test the OptionB fully passive mode now. And for the most part its been working as intended. Customers have an easy way to view boost in dash, capture and quickly view logs, and most importantly can datalog boost values higher than 21psi. It's been a real eye opener.

Some of you custom flash only cars, maybe without knowing it, are disabling your boost control system and duty cycle tuning above the TMAP sensor range. It's really risky stuff.

You'll know if you're doing this because your flash log will show boost stuck at say 21psi. Meanwhile actual boost could be anywhere from 21psi to 40psi. With the DME blind to boost there is absolutely no control. You or your tuner may go along thinking boost can't be that much higher than 21psi but I've seen in more than one case boost going off the charts. Here is a recent stock turbo "dyno record" log that was recorded via the JB4 in passive mode. Boost went up to 36psi and maxed out the N20 TMAP sensor!

Anyway the moral of this story is DO NOT DUTY CYCLE TUNE. Even if you do manage to set boost perfectly using an external gauge as soon as EGT creeps up, weather changes, etc, boost can still rocket out of control. A PID system is required to provide dynamic and safe control. Ideally one with an active throttle over boost safety system in place.

For proper boost control:
1) Always run a boost target that is 1-2psi BELOW your TMAP sensor range to allow the PID boost control system to compensate for over boost situations and to remain fully active. So flash only guys that means never let your tuning target more than 20psi for an OEM sensor or 21psi for an N20 TMAP sensor scaled within the flash.
2) If boost in flash only logs is going to a point and clamping there, and not throwing a sensor out of range fault, something is wrong with your tuning.
3) If your throttle does not start to close, even if boost is exceeding the boost target, something is wrong with your tuning.
4) If you see someone posting logs where boost clamps at say 21psi, claiming it's not running much more boost than that, point out to them boost could be maxing out to 35-40psi and they would never even know it.
Attached Images
 


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
Reply With Quote
(#72)
Old
Nniftyfour's Avatar
Nniftyfour Nniftyfour is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 377
Join Date: Sep 2014
Car: 335xi
Default 04-03-2015, 09:49 AM

^ Yep, honestly it boggles my mind how a tuner could think a tune like that is kosher for a eveyday Joe who just wants a really fast car. There will be no shortage of stock turbo cores soon.
Reply With Quote
(#73)
Old
Terry @ BMS's Avatar
Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
Tuner
 
Posts: 32,390
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default 04-03-2015, 09:50 AM

Forget turbo cores. Those are cheap. That is how you break pistons.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
Reply With Quote
(#74)
Old
Nniftyfour's Avatar
Nniftyfour Nniftyfour is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 377
Join Date: Sep 2014
Car: 335xi
Default 04-03-2015, 10:02 AM

Yeah good point. 36psi of boost and 12 degrees of timing at 3500rpm. But if they start breaking motors that isn't why... the person inevitably had hardware issues that was outside of tuners control, don't you know.

Can't help everybody.
Reply With Quote
(#75)
Old
DV135i's Avatar
DV135i DV135i is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 157
Join Date: Mar 2013
Car: 135i
Default 04-03-2015, 10:03 AM

That log is crazy!! Over boosting by 15lbs seems like the perfect way to destroy a motor

So this is what the current mhd maps are doing right now? I really wanted to test out the e40 map, but it looks like that's a bad idea right now. Is this happening only when using option b? Option A would still be controlling things so it wouldn't allow the boost to spike like this right?


~MHD Stage 2+~3.5 Bar Tmap~PR Ignition Kit~VTT Inlets~VTT Cast Valve Cover~VTT Dual CC~XClutch Twin Disk~BMS Short Shifter~ER Competition FMIC Kit w/ HKS SSQV~3"AR DP's~3" Custom exhaust~Fuel-It Stage 2 Bucket~
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




vBulletin Skin developed by: vBStyles.com
Copyright 2007 - 2020, N54tech.com