N54Tech.com - International Turbo Racing Discussion
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Default 09-05-2014, 09:08 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by nguyenvn
Awesome, can't wait to see some logs from you! Did you sell your old ones yet? Let me know if you can have Rob upgrade them and sell to me =p
We do not release products for general availability or presale turbos prior to testing (or actually being produced for that matter). That is simply put horrible business practices.

Once tested by independent 3rd parties who are perfectly aware of their purpose in the R&D function, illustrating results (or lack thereof), they will be released (or re-evaluated). Please note that units as final tested will be exactly as produced as well.

Thanks,
Rob


See www.rbturbo.com for N54 Twin Turbo Bolt-On upgrades, or contact directly 314-630-8950 rob.rbturbo@gmail.com for a price quote.

Last edited by Rob@RBTurbo; 09-05-2014 at 09:17 AM..
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nguyenvn nguyenvn is offline
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Default 09-05-2014, 09:41 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo
We do not release products for general availability or presale turbos prior to testing (or actually being produced for that matter). That is simply put horrible business practices.

Once tested by independent 3rd parties who are perfectly aware of their purpose in the R&D function, illustrating results (or lack thereof), they will be released (or re-evaluated). Please note that units as final tested will be exactly as produced as well.

Thanks,
Rob
Thanks Rob. Looking forward to the results.
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G.I.Joe G.I.Joe is offline
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Default 09-05-2014, 12:48 PM

I'm in for a future Upgrade of my RBs. Awesome news
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Default 09-05-2014, 12:53 PM

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Originally Posted by G.I.Joe
I'm in for a future Upgrade of my RBs. Awesome news
Yes sir. We have 3 other testing options coming through into testing. One of them very very large even on the turbine side, it is actually so big that the TD03 flange has to be completely removed to even fit into the housing (which is standard for RB's anyway, but just for reference). This unit will take a hit in the spool department but should maximize pump gas numbers and overall flow… and have the best top end potential the housing can handle. The others below that will all run the same turbine with and without clipping and different wheel sizes (standard being cast then into billet variants).

Rob


See www.rbturbo.com for N54 Twin Turbo Bolt-On upgrades, or contact directly 314-630-8950 rob.rbturbo@gmail.com for a price quote.
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Default 09-05-2014, 02:39 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo
Yes sir. We have 3 other testing options coming through into testing. One of them very very large even on the turbine side, it is actually so big that the TD03 flange has to be completely removed to even fit into the housing (which is standard for RB's anyway, but just for reference). This unit will take a hit in the spool department but should maximize pump gas numbers and overall flow… and have the best top end potential the housing can handle. The others below that will all run the same turbine with and without clipping and different wheel sizes (standard being cast then into billet variants).

Rob
I cannot wait for this!!!!


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Default 09-05-2014, 02:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo
RB's can easily be upgraded as they are already adapted for true TD04 interface. This allows the access of much larger turbine wheels than others. Anyone using turbine housings that have been truly re-adapted have in their hands A LOT of work and cost, which is why our product has been a little more expensive to purchase than some others (and exponentially more expensive to produce). My advice would be that if you have any of the following housings to cherish them, keep them close… they are worth a lot as they are the only ones that are truly re-adapted:
1) RB Turbos
2) Turbo Dynamics Stage 2 Turbos
3) ASR Turbos

The rest have a massive limitation of what wheel can be put in the housing, and are thus back to the drawing board if ever wanting to make good power and flow out of them.

Thanks,
Rob
Im glad another company is coming out with these turbos! Any idea how much we can expect to pay for a set?


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Default 09-05-2014, 03:09 PM

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Originally Posted by natedog7700
Im glad another company is coming out with these turbos! Any idea how much we can expect to pay for a set?
Well vtt wanted $1800 or so on top of my rbs to upgrade. That's just insane!
According to Rob, our RBs have been heavily modified already and shouldn't take much work to modify them. I hope his prices for returning customers are more affordable and he will have guaranteed money from every RB turbo out there.


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Default 09-05-2014, 03:19 PM

I find all the **** slinging between vargas and RB silly, but this is the kind of nonsense that advances the platform for the end-user. So there's that.

Let the hp wars commence, and come next april when I will have $$ and be ready to buy, the products will have 6 months of maturity to show which is superior


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Default 09-05-2014, 03:25 PM

FYI. Earlier in the thread I made some accusations that Tony was using ASR Turbos (for their very high flow properties) to meet his new numbers and I just want to make sure that is corrected here as well.

Today Tony accepted an inspection challenge and proved he is in fact still using TD03 center sections and flanges (hence fairly small wheels). The challenge was lost and he was correct which means I had to eat my shorts, offer an apology, and I'm going to make good on the bet I presented in this very thread (since I put it out there prior). Congrats to VTT for having the most powerful N54 Hybrid turbos currently installed on a vehicle. Hopefully he can get some 10's very soon!

Rob


See www.rbturbo.com for N54 Twin Turbo Bolt-On upgrades, or contact directly 314-630-8950 rob.rbturbo@gmail.com for a price quote.
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Default 09-05-2014, 03:27 PM

If they are still TD03 what is the difference that allows these to suddenly make 100whp more?


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Default 09-05-2014, 03:29 PM

bigger center and wheels... instead of using the 15 wheel which fits through the cover, the cover is machined off, the 20 wheel put on, and the cover welded back over the 20 wheel and machined again. done


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Default 09-05-2014, 03:32 PM

So what is the difference between that, and what Rob is testing now?


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 09-05-2014, 03:34 PM

Beats me, I don't know what rob is testing.


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Default 09-05-2014, 03:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
If they are still TD03 what is the difference that allows these to suddenly make 100whp more?
The only thing really left is to just accept that his turbine wheel flows a TON (whether due to extreme clipping or in native form), the larger compressor allowed much lower shaft speeds which improved turbine efficiency drastically, or perhaps the fact that he was not running any inlet tubes (not practical for the end user) really helped the turbos do work more efficiently. Or possibly some combination of it all. If the dyno is correct, he should easily be running 10's and 130+ traps IMHO which would be awesome.


See www.rbturbo.com for N54 Twin Turbo Bolt-On upgrades, or contact directly 314-630-8950 rob.rbturbo@gmail.com for a price quote.
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Default 09-05-2014, 03:42 PM

Its a modern billet gtx turbine scaled down in cad and produced for the smaller housing - it should in theory, flow more then any other wheel there is


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Default 09-05-2014, 03:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dietcoke
Beats me, I don't know what rob is testing.
RB's will have 4 options. One option (RB's) has been in play forever. Two of the other three are to be tested by 3rd parties beginning next week. The biggest option (Super RB's) will be on two cars, the 2nd biggest option (RB Billet Pro's) on 1-2 cars. The 3rd option (RB Billets) is merely a billet replacement w/minor clipping (still need test subject although should be very safe performing bet). We do not like to sell without testing, so they are not general availability, unless customer is in the know that they have not been ran and is ok being involved with the testing.


See www.rbturbo.com for N54 Twin Turbo Bolt-On upgrades, or contact directly 314-630-8950 rob.rbturbo@gmail.com for a price quote.
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Default 09-05-2014, 03:49 PM

I think any variety in choices benefits all, really. You both have different approaches to the same thing, which I can appreciate.


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Default 09-05-2014, 03:50 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo
RB's can easily be upgraded as they are already adapted for true TD04 interface. This allows the access of much larger turbine wheels than others. Anyone using turbine housings that have been truly re-adapted have in their hands A LOT of work and cost, which is why our product has been a little more expensive to purchase than some others (and exponentially more expensive to produce). My advice would be that if you have any of the following housings to cherish them, keep them close… they are worth a lot as they are the only ones that are truly re-adapted:
1) RB Turbos
2) Turbo Dynamics Stage 2 Turbos
3) ASR Turbos

The rest have a massive limitation of what wheel can be put in the housing, and are thus back to the drawing board if ever wanting to make good power and flow out of them.

Thanks,
Rob
well I'm going to put my unused ASR stage2s back up for sale if anyone is interested in those.....might also list some other stuff i don't plan on using anymore
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Default 09-05-2014, 03:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dietcoke
Its a modern billet gtx turbine scaled down in cad and produced for the smaller housing - it should in theory, flow more then any other wheel there is
Agree. But housing design takes a play at times. And really we did not find that there was ever much advantage (or any) of any VTT Stage 2 batch 2 products in the power department. Granted, when VTT was running pure E85 (thanks to their shotgun innovation) and pushing to the moon they did fairly well power wise but with extreme amounts of exhaust back pressure to boot. Prior to that the numbers even from VTT were sub RB's, from what I recall. Then never were there any independent reviews, dynos, drag times, etc. that surpassed RB's to my knowledge. This leads one to believe that the theory of the wheel just maybe incorrect in application, or possibly it just needed a much larger compressor to function properly. From some of the postings it was said that the amount of EBP dropped was very large (ie. 3 to 1 to 2 to 1), simply from increasing the compressor size and reducing shaft speeds (this is where the data seemed to become fuzzy and unbelievable)


See www.rbturbo.com for N54 Twin Turbo Bolt-On upgrades, or contact directly 314-630-8950 rob.rbturbo@gmail.com for a price quote.
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Dietcoke Dietcoke is offline
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Default 09-05-2014, 03:58 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dietcoke
I find all the **** slinging between vargas and RB silly, but this is the kind of nonsense that advances the platform for the end-user. So there's that.

Let the hp wars commence, and come next april when I will have $$ and be ready to buy, the products will have 6 months of maturity to show which is superior
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo
Agree. But housing design takes a play at times. And really we did not find that there was ever much advantage (or any) of any VTT Stage 2 batch 2 products in the power department. Granted, when VTT was running pure E85 (thanks to their shotgun innovation) and pushing to the moon they did fairly well power wise but with extreme amounts of exhaust back pressure to boot. Prior to that the numbers even from VTT were sub RB's, from what I recall. Then never were there any independent reviews, dynos, drag times, etc. that surpassed RB's to my knowledge. This leads one to believe that the theory of the wheel just maybe incorrect in application, or possibly it just needed a much larger compressor to function properly. From some of the postings it was said that the amount of EBP dropped was very large (ie. 3 to 1 to 2 to 1), simply from increasing the compressor size and reducing shaft speeds (this is where the data seemed to become fuzzy and unbelievable)
The housing may be a limiting factor in total flow, but the better flowing wheel will take less RPM to max out the housing. If you can oversize the intake and exhaust wheel (within reasonable spool) it only lowers EGT and backpressure because the whole package has to work less hard to push the same air. IIRC they clip the new gtx wheel as well, for more flow. Their turbines probably were outdoing what the little 15T could push on the intake side, and the 20 is certainly a better match. Funny to talk about these little peanut things, the world I'm from every turbo is 88mm and bigger.


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Default 09-05-2014, 04:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dietcoke
The housing may be a limiting factor in total flow, but the better flowing wheel will take less RPM to max out the housing. If you can oversize the intake and exhaust wheel (within reasonable spool) it only lowers EGT and backpressure because the whole package has to work less hard to push the same air. IIRC they clip the new gtx wheel as well, for more flow. Their turbines probably were outdoing what the little 15T could push on the intake side, and the 20 is certainly a better match. Funny to talk about these little peanut things, the world I'm from every turbo is 88mm and bigger.
They are little guys for sure. It is amazing the amount of air they can move.

It will be interesting to see the biggest option we have being tested. The turbine wheel is certainly very large and high flowing both together. It barely is shoe horned into this turbine housing, beyond barely actually but still fits ok where it matters. In other applications we developed the same wheel set that made more than 660allwheel hp. So we will see how it goes with the N54. Either way it should work very well on pump gas as it will flow so well, which is desirable to a lot of guys, on top of moving lots of air on the big end.

Rob


See www.rbturbo.com for N54 Twin Turbo Bolt-On upgrades, or contact directly 314-630-8950 rob.rbturbo@gmail.com for a price quote.
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Default 09-05-2014, 04:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo
So we will see how it goes with the N54. Either way it should work very well on pump gas as it will flow so well, which is desirable to a lot of guys, on top of moving lots of air on the big end.

Rob
Haha, who buys upgraded turbos to run on pump? I want to meet these folks…just so I can be like…WTF?


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Default 09-05-2014, 04:47 PM

Well either way this is a crazy breakthrough... makes me wish I bought an N54


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Default 09-05-2014, 05:05 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CHECKERED
Haha, who buys upgraded turbos to run on pump? I want to meet these folks…just so I can be like…WTF?
Most everyone wants big power on pump gas. It is possible with bigger turbo setups to go much further on less octane.

Quote:
Originally Posted by frmtl2_335i
Well vtt wanted $1800 or so on top of my rbs to upgrade. That's just insane!
According to Rob, our RBs have been heavily modified already and shouldn't take much work to modify them. I hope his prices for returning customers are more affordable and he will have guaranteed money from every RB turbo out there.
RB Refurbishment/Upgrade program:
RB's to RB Billets will be around $500
RB's to RB Billet Pros will be around $750
RB's to Super RB's will be around $1250

Each cost will include all new internals, bearings, seals, etc. And VSR Balancing with dynamic performance reports.

Dont quote me on this, they are still being determined (and yet to be tested), but it is to give an idea on approx. costs. The other new option is comparable to the RB Billet Pros. The Super RB's are a very extremely modified setup, much beyond what is out there or what has ever been built in the N54 hybrid turbo department (which is why the much larger cost).

In short RB's have a lot going for them… dumping them off would be insane. Keep in mind this all started due to a set of used RB's being upgraded by a random shop as the way they are converted allows them to be upgraded by anyone with off the shelf TD04 parts.

Rob


See www.rbturbo.com for N54 Twin Turbo Bolt-On upgrades, or contact directly 314-630-8950 rob.rbturbo@gmail.com for a price quote.

Last edited by Rob@RBTurbo; 09-05-2014 at 05:14 PM..
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Default 09-05-2014, 06:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo
Most everyone wants big power on pump gas. It is possible with bigger turbo setups to go much further on less octane.



RB Refurbishment/Upgrade program:
RB's to RB Billets will be around $500
RB's to RB Billet Pros will be around $750
RB's to Super RB's will be around $1250

Each cost will include all new internals, bearings, seals, etc. And VSR Balancing with dynamic performance reports.

Dont quote me on this, they are still being determined (and yet to be tested), but it is to give an idea on approx. costs. The other new option is comparable to the RB Billet Pros. The Super RB's are a very extremely modified setup, much beyond what is out there or what has ever been built in the N54 hybrid turbo department (which is why the much larger cost).

In short RB's have a lot going for them… dumping them off would be insane. Keep in mind this all started due to a set of used RB's being upgraded by a random shop as the way they are converted allows them to be upgraded by anyone with off the shelf TD04 parts.

Rob
I am about to come sit on your doorstep to get my super RB's!


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