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CJ2 CJ2 is offline
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Default 11-15-2013, 02:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by musc
I do what Fmonteiro444 does by counting each tick of the gas gauge as a gallon. I also use the trip odometer in iDrive to determine the avg mpg and how many miles I have left. They are usually pretty close to one another.

I also calculate my E concentration for each tank and just do the math real quick at the station. Since I have E77 in my area now, the E85 calculator I was using wont work but its not difficult to figure on your own.




You dont have to empty the tank. Just mix it accordingly. You can assume you have E10 91 in there now. You'll just need to use more E85 and less E10 91 if you are starting with more than an empty tank. 8 and 8 puts you at E48 and 98 octane with 91. You really want to be closer to 100 octane with Map7 imo. With 91 octane as your base gasoline, you would need to achieve E59 to do this. I would also do the test tube test to see just how much E your fuel actually has in it. Many times it is not truly 85%. I would also log first before going overboard with the E concentration. Many times the LPFP isn't capable of handling these high concentrations without an inline booster.
I'm assuming higher octane is required to run high boost numbers. Can you go overboard on E85? What would be considered overboard and what is the margin for error?
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Fmonteiro444 Fmonteiro444 is offline
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Default 11-15-2013, 02:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by musc
I do what Fmonteiro444 does by counting each tick of the gas gauge as a gallon. I also use the trip odometer in iDrive to determine the avg mpg and how many miles I have left. They are usually pretty close to one another.

I also calculate my E concentration for each tank and just do the math real quick at the station. Since I have E77 in my area now, the E85 calculator I was using wont work but its not difficult to figure on your own.




You dont have to empty the tank. Just mix it accordingly. You can assume you have E10 91 in there now. You'll just need to use more E85 and less E10 91 if you are starting with more than an empty tank. 8 and 8 puts you at E48 and 98 octane with 91. You really want to be closer to 100 octane with Map7 imo. With 91 octane as your base gasoline, you would need to achieve E59 to do this. I would also do the test tube test to see just how much E your fuel actually has in it. Many times it is not truly 85%. I would also log first before going overboard with the E concentration. Many times the LPFP isn't capable of handling these high concentrations without an inline booster.
What calculator do you use? You don't use the test tube at the station do you?


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14 F30 335xi AT- Built Closed-Deck N55, SpeedTech Stage 3 w/ BW-8374C, MHD Flash, xHP Flash, E85, AFE Intake, VRSF 6" Race FMIC, VRSF CP, Fuel-it Stage 2 LPFP and PI
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Default 11-15-2013, 03:17 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ2
I'm assuming higher octane is required to run high boost numbers. Can you go overboard on E85? What would be considered overboard and what is the margin for error?
Higher octane is necessary for sure to keep timing in check with the higher boost levels. I started with roughly E28 and went up to E52 on a stock fueling system. You can go overboard with the stock fuel pumps and E85, but it varies car to car. I had errors and fueling issues when I tried to use E52 and found that E45/46 is the max I can use and even that level is pushing it. You just have to log and make sure your low pressure fuel pump is in check.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fmonteiro444
What calculator do you use? You don't use the test tube at the station do you?
I was using
http://www.intercepteft.com/calc.html

The downside is that it only assumes you have true E85 or true E70 winter blend. My current station is E77. I do have a portable test tube that I can do right at the station but I also have a graduated cylinder for more precise testing. Once you test the station you dont have to keep checking but every so often. I just checked my station because we were switching to the spring/fall blend. Here is a rough guideline state by state what class of E85 you may be using. http://www.e85mustangs.com/regions123.html

I just do simple math by multiplying the E % x gallons for each fuel and existing fuel, add them all up and divide by 16.1. And that gives me an E% for the tank. I have some idea of the ratio I need going in so its not all guessing. For example I like to fill up with 1/4 tank:

4 gallons existing of E45 = 4x45 = 180
6.5 gallons of E85 (actual E77) = 6.5 x 77= 500.5
5.6 gallons of E10 93 octane = 5.6 x 10 = 56
Total = 736.5 / 16.1 = 45.74% Ethanol.

I made a little spread sheet for my phone with the totals /16.1 and the corresponding E% so I can just glance at it.

There may be a simpler way but this has worked for me. Key is knowing the true E% of the stations I frequent. I am about to start testing the 93 octane to verify its 10%.


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Default 11-15-2013, 03:24 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by musc
Higher octane is necessary for sure to keep timing in check with the higher boost levels. I started with roughly E28 and went up to E52 on a stock fueling system. You can go overboard with the stock fuel pumps and E85, but it varies car to car. I had errors and fueling issues when I tried to use E52 and found that E45/46 is the max I can use and even that level is pushing it. You just have to log and make sure your low pressure fuel pump is in check.



I was using
http://www.intercepteft.com/calc.html

The downside is that it only assumes you have true E85 or true E70 winter blend. My current station is E77. I do have a portable test tube that I can do right at the station but I also have a graduated cylinder for more precise testing. Once you test the station you dont have to keep checking but every so often. I just checked my station because we were switching to the spring/fall blend. Here is a rough guideline state by state what class of E85 you may be using. http://www.e85mustangs.com/regions123.html

I just do simple math by multiplying the E % x gallons for each fuel and existing fuel, add them all up and divide by 16.1. And that gives me an E% for the tank. I have some idea of the ratio I need going in so its not all guessing. For example I like to fill up with 1/4 tank:

4 gallons existing of E45 = 4x45 = 180
6.5 gallons of E85 (actual E77) = 6.5 x 77= 500.5
5.6 gallons of E10 93 octane = 5.6 x 10 = 56
Total = 736.5 / 16.1 = 45.74% Ethanol.

I made a little spread sheet for my phone with the totals /16.1 and the corresponding E% so I can just glance at it.

There may be a simpler way but this has worked for me. Key is knowing the true E% of the stations I frequent. I am about to start testing the 93 octane to verify its 10%.
Care to share the phone spreadsheet?


----------------------------------------------------
14 F30 335xi AT- Built Closed-Deck N55, SpeedTech Stage 3 w/ BW-8374C, MHD Flash, xHP Flash, E85, AFE Intake, VRSF 6" Race FMIC, VRSF CP, Fuel-it Stage 2 LPFP and PI
----------------------------------------------------
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Default 11-16-2013, 03:42 AM

Mixing doesn't have to be that difficult as most of you will be limited by your pumps, tune, rail...whatever.

Simply start by putting in 4 gallons (25% e85) to a full tank....log.

If things look good...add a higher percentage next time and log.

You don't have to empty your tank...the first fill is easy to calculate. But going forward...if you were running 25% and the next time you fill you have a quarter tank left...put in 3 gallons of e85 and 9 gallons of 91/93. Just always do the same percentage after you determine your mix. It doesn't have to be exact unless you're really pushing your limits.



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dewme5 dewme5 is offline
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Default 11-16-2013, 07:25 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveAZ
Mixing doesn't have to be that difficult as most of you will be limited by your pumps, tune, rail...whatever.

Simply start by putting in 4 gallons (25% e85) to a full tank....log.

If things look good...add a higher percentage next time and log.

You don't have to empty your tank...the first fill is easy to calculate. But going forward...if you were running 25% and the next time you fill you have a quarter tank left...put in 3 gallons of e85 and 9 gallons of 91/93. Just always do the same percentage after you determine your mix. It doesn't have to be exact unless you're really pushing your limits.
A key thing many seem to miss, put in known quantities. In your previous example, 3gal of e85 and 9gal of 91. That is different then 3gal of e85, and top off the tank with 91. Topping off is guess work.

e40ish added to e45iThink can lead to problems.
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Russell @ BMS Russell @ BMS is offline
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Cool 11-17-2013, 10:27 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dewme5
A key thing many seem to miss, put in known quantities. In your previous example, 3gal of e85 and 9gal of 91. That is different then 3gal of e85, and top off the tank with 91. Topping off is guess work.

e40ish added to e45iThink can lead to problems.
Good point!


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alpinedevil335 alpinedevil335 is offline
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Default 11-17-2013, 06:24 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by musc

I do have a portable test tube that I can do right at the station but I also have a graduated cylinder for more precise testing. Once you test the station you dont have to keep checking but every so often. I just checked my station because we were switching to the spring/fall blend. Here is a rough guideline state by state what class of E85 you may be using.
So how accurate are those test tubes compared to the graduated cylinder method?
I tested my local pump yesterday using a test tube I purchased on line and I came up with E90.
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Default 11-17-2013, 07:19 PM

Did you forget to subtract the water you added?

Frankly, anything with an accurate scale on the side is sufficient...just depends on how much math you want to do.

The example in the first post just makes it super easy and minimizes the math to simple addition and subtraction.

E90 would be awesome!



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Default 11-17-2013, 07:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveAZ
Did you forget to subtract the water you added?
Instructions on the test tube I have said nothing about subtracting the amount of water added. It says to let it sit and read the separation line that's it?
http://www.quickfueltechnology.com/s...test-tube.html
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Default 11-17-2013, 07:43 PM

There you go...

The water combines with the ethanol and causes it to separate from the gasoline. The gasoline then rises to the top and that is the line you see.

Since the water and ethanol are combined, you have to subtract the volume of water you added to the solution to get the ethanol content.

Make sense?

Edit..I see the line at the bottom for the water line...what you say makes more sense now..it's already subtracted from the results...if done properly...lucky you!



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Default 11-17-2013, 07:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveAZ
There you go...

The water combines with the ethanol and causes it to separate from the gasoline. The gasoline then rises to the top and that is the line you see.

Since the water and ethanol are combined, you have to subtract the volume of water you added to the solution to get the ethanol content.

Make sense?

Edit..I see the line at the bottom for the water line...what you say makes more sense now..it's already subtracted from the results...if done properly...lucky you!
My results here...
http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22279
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Default 11-18-2013, 01:02 AM

I don't understand the obsession with metering exact quantities. It shouldn't be that sensitive. Worst case on no flash you put a little too much and trim out, which isn't that big of a deal since you're trimming out BC you have too much e85 which means you have more knock suppression than tuned for. On flash you will tune with a higher scalar so your worst case is you don't put enough e85 and run rich. It really isn't a big deal basically.


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Default 04-02-2015, 11:37 AM

Hey, guys, has anyone setup their own flash for N55 on E40? It's stock turbo and FBO. So far, I'm thinking about high-load AFR of around 13:1 and a 1.15 scalar. Any info or comments on the subject are welcome.

Thanks!



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Default 04-02-2015, 12:03 PM

What's the most common lambda equivalent AFR for E50 out there? I've been running around 12.4 in 180 load areas but there is a lot of information out there about max rich/lean power for e50ish and I want some opinions. Preferably someone who has done some dyno work with cobb/TP and E50-E60


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Default 04-02-2015, 12:27 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by fryj00
Hey, guys, has anyone setup their own flash for N55 on E40? It's stock turbo and FBO. So far, I'm thinking about high-load AFR of around 13:1 and a 1.15 scalar. Any info or comments on the subject are welcome.

Thanks!
Here's our scalar's for two different maps. This car has VTT Stage 1 turbo, FMIC, Pure Inlet, performance DP, BMS drop-in filter. As we dial things in a bit more...they'll probably go up a bit but we're not on a stock turbo either.

E30

Name:  e30 scalar.jpg
Views: 436
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E60

Name:  E60 scalar.jpg
Views: 458
Size:  216.7 KB



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Default 04-02-2015, 12:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spxxx
What's the most common lambda equivalent AFR for E50 out there? I've been running around 12.4 in 180 load areas but there is a lot of information out there about max rich/lean power for e50ish and I want some opinions. Preferably someone who has done some dyno work with cobb/TP and E50-E60
Right now we are running about 12.6 which is also Max power lean on E85. Not sure what it is for E50.



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