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heartpumper77 heartpumper77 is offline
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Default Power Supply vs Battery Charger - 09-21-2013, 05:53 AM

Well i posted in the Flash forums,but thought I would post my research here also. Terry feel free to move this to the flash forums but I thought this may be useful for everyone.

I have an 07 335i Kline as identified by bimmerboost flash, and yes I tried after reading that it would not work to flash with using a 10amp charger. I got the usual fail codes, map sector bad, cannot connect to control module, all the low voltage stuff. I had to got get a 55amp POWERSUPPLY to connect to the battery in the rear before I could get a correct write of the map.

I thought I would do some research and here is what I found. The variation between a powersupply vs battery charger is that the powersupply tries to maintain a constant voltage at all times while connected to the vehicle. This is ideal as stated in the BMW manual for coding the ecu, I think that just just reading and doing some other coding with INPA you could squeak by with a battery charger but not for complete flash of the ECU.

From the BMW manual and my contacts at dealer the newer vehicles state that they need at least a 70amp constant supply for coding. The recomended power supply as of earlier by bmw I have linked below.

http://www.tooldiscounter.com/ItemDi...kw=MDTPSC-550S

The newer one suggested by bmw is linked below also
http://deutronic.com/battery-chargers/1200-watt.htm

Obviously these are pricey and maybe we can source some other power supplys that would suffice as I know you can find many used ones on ebay. Snapon also has a version built by schumacher that is recommended for coding vehicles and actually has a coding mode built in.

Just thought I would share for people that were having problems flashing because of voltage.
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heartpumper77 heartpumper77 is offline
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Default 09-21-2013, 05:57 AM

Schumacher which I believe is the one snap on sells is linked below with

http://www.amazon.com/Schumacher-INC.../dp/B002Z2Z7ZY
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Default 09-21-2013, 07:08 AM

Just curious, why does the bimmerboost flash need so much power to flash the ecu? With Cobb I just use a trickle charger.


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Default 09-21-2013, 07:32 AM

Have not flashed yet but had great success with this when bleeding the coolant system. There's a battery inside so it provides clean DC power. <$50.
http://www.harborfreight.com/12-volt...gzIn0%3D%0D%0A
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Default 09-21-2013, 07:47 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by burnie35
Just curious, why does the bimmerboost flash need so much power to flash the ecu? With Cobb I just use a trickle charger.
It is not the bimmerboost flash, from talking to my contacts at dealer and reading the BMW manuals it is the ECU and system, as you see all the lights flash it is checking/programming every system of the car as well as the fuel pump running the whole time. BMW states the flash even a dealer flash pulls 30amps or more so for us Kline guys that need a guaranteed voltage to keep the communication line open, that voltage can drop very fast if you have a 10amp charger and the system is pulling 30amps you have a net -20 amps.

A battery charger voltage can will change when you are doing the flash as it is trying to charge the battery, the power supply tries to maintain a constant voltage the whole time to keep a steady state to allow the ECU and systems to communicate. As shown by many guys if you get any voltage drop you lose connection and get a failed flash.

Last edited by heartpumper77; 09-21-2013 at 07:49 AM.. Reason: sp
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Cool 09-21-2013, 07:50 AM

I believe the need for a battery charger varies by year of car. The 2007 cars seem to be more sensitive to low battery voltage.
I have a 2009 with a relatively new battery and have saved the original flash data (>70 minutes IIRC) without using a battery charger.

At the dealership, they will be flashing the total DME program + tuning tables database. This takes about four hours I was told.

With the BB flash only the tuning tables are being written so the need for a monster power supply is much less.


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Default 09-21-2013, 09:21 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by heartpumper77
It is not the bimmerboost flash, from talking to my contacts at dealer and reading the BMW manuals it is the ECU and system, as you see all the lights flash it is checking/programming every system of the car as well as the fuel pump running the whole time. BMW states the flash even a dealer flash pulls 30amps or more so for us Kline guys that need a guaranteed voltage to keep the communication line open, that voltage can drop very fast if you have a 10amp charger and the system is pulling 30amps you have a net -20 amps.

A battery charger voltage can will change when you are doing the flash as it is trying to charge the battery, the power supply tries to maintain a constant voltage the whole time to keep a steady state to allow the ECU and systems to communicate. As shown by many guys if you get any voltage drop you lose connection and get a failed flash.
I still don't get it. I have 2007 kline, with a 6.5 year old original battery, original car software from 4/2007. I did the read and the flash with a batter tender trickle charger which I think is 1.25 amps. I started with the red light flashing on the battery tender indicating the battery was less than 80%. Did not have a single problem with the long read and the relatively long first write (compared to COBB) with OFT. I did not pull the fuel pump fuse, it was humming along the whole write.

I have since purchased a 10amp charger (schumacher 2/6/10amp $50 - SSC-1000A) just in case, but I can't fathom why you would need to go buy a $360 4/20/70 amp - INC-700A schumacher.


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Default 09-21-2013, 09:24 AM

I use a ~$70 40 amp charger from WalMart. Works well. If the gateway voltages drop below 11.5v they will cut off access to the DME. Most KLINE cars can read without a charger and some are able to flash without one. But many are not.


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heartpumper77 heartpumper77 is offline
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Default 09-21-2013, 10:24 AM

I am not saying you need that 360 dollar power supply, I am just stating some info after some research I have done. I am with Terry and think the 40amp battery charger will work just fine. I was just showing what the dealer and many of the shops use when they are doing reflash and coding on cars. I will try next time with a 40amp battery charger from walmart to see if that works, I may just put it straight on the battery in the rear.

I THINK, a main thing may be that after you get the initial read and 10-12 min flash you would be ok with lesser charger because subsequent flashes only take 2-3 mins to update the maps with a flash so alot less time to drain the battery and pull voltage..
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Default 09-21-2013, 10:25 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
I use a ~$70 40 amp charger from WalMart. Works well. If the gateway voltages drop below 11.5v they will cut off access to the DME. Most KLINE cars can read without a charger and some are able to flash without one. But many are not.
I think that 11.5 voltage you stated Terry is probably the biggest problem for all the fails, I read my battery voltage with the lights on and it was already at 11.8..

Thanks for all the help and work..
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Default 09-22-2013, 12:09 AM

I have always flashed without charger with cobbe, and with kline cable when I was flashing transmission.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
I use a ~$70 40 amp charger from WalMart. Works well. If the gateway voltages drop below 11.5v they will cut off access to the DME. Most KLINE cars can read without a charger and some are able to flash without one. But many are not.


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Default 09-22-2013, 07:32 AM

I have a 2009 also but my battery isn't that new. 60k miles and I didn't need to use a charger. I did the 70 minute original read, then started the car and let it idle for 5-10 minutes then did the flash without a charger and had no problems.


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Default 09-23-2013, 03:57 AM

It is very interesting that some of us need so much voltage to get a good read and no errors. Guess it is what it is, I will try the 40amp charger next time to see if it works and hopefully not have to resort to borrowing the power supply from by buddies..

Happy Flashing..
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Hierlevelz Hierlevelz is offline
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Default 12-22-2013, 09:37 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
I use a ~$70 40 amp charger from WalMart. Works well. If the gateway voltages drop below 11.5v they will cut off access to the DME. Most KLINE cars can read without a charger and some are able to flash without one. But many are not.
Make and model?
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Default 12-22-2013, 04:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by psmitty95
I have a 2009 also but my battery isn't that new. 60k miles and I didn't need to use a charger. I did the 70 minute original read, then started the car and let it idle for 5-10 minutes then did the flash without a charger and had no problems.
I have a early 2008 135 with 49k and the original AGM battery and it just managed the 70 mins flash without a charger, but I do keep the car on a trickle charger when not in use, I wonder if you guys that are having probs have GEL battery's rather than the AGM !.
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Default 12-22-2013, 04:26 PM

I have only used a 10amp charger with my 07 and it's been fine. Leave it charging for an hour or two beforehand so it charges a bit.


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Default 12-22-2013, 08:54 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vroom
Have not flashed yet but had great success with this when bleeding the coolant system. There's a battery inside so it provides clean DC power. <$50.
http://www.harborfreight.com/12-volt...gzIn0%3D%0D%0A
LOL, I have that one in Yellow


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Default 12-22-2013, 08:59 PM

I use a 13 amp Schumacher. But also remove the fuse for the LPFP, which is running whenever power is on in the car.
Seems to be sufficient, but can't hurt to have more amperage.


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Default 12-22-2013, 11:20 PM

I have a 10amp. I pull the fuel pump fuse and make sure everything is off like lights, radio, fan etc. No issues so far, but you never know.
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Default 12-23-2013, 07:46 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocean
I use a 13 amp Schumacher. But also remove the fuse for the LPFP, which is running whenever power is on in the car.
Seems to be sufficient, but can't hurt to have more amperage.
That LPFP running for a 1/2 hour drives me nuts! But I've been hesitant to pull the fuse because I didn't want to disrupt the system.


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Default 12-24-2013, 05:02 PM

This sounds ghetto but it worked for my 07 k line DME .. I just hooked up jumpers cables from my car to a extra battery that I use to power my fishing airator system lol.. Car took about 1 1/2 hours to flash including read time. No issues
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Default 08-27-2020, 01:11 PM

Sorry to revive old thread, but since I was searching for this particular solution I wanted to share mine....

CbRadiosPronto sells these and in a variety of flavors, like 50amp, 75amp, and even the popular 100amp model.

I bought this model, 100 amp for $199.99


100 AMP CONTINUOUS POWER SUPPLY-CONVERTER-BATTERY Charger 12 volt 13.8 vdc


And a 2gauge 20ft jumper cables for $20.99 which I cut in half and can use other half for a 2nd unit.


Booster Cables 2 Gauge Jumper Leads 20 FT Heavy Duty Car Van Clamps Start US


Making it the cheapest solution, just a little over $200

Hope this helps.
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