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Default dyno numbers seem weird...low AFR? - 07-30-2013, 09:41 PM

Hi guys, did a dyno run on my e88 few days ago. temp was 76 degrees, using 91 octane gas. have jb4 g4, dci, and *** back exhaust. here are the numbers:

baseline: afr 15.1, whp 241.8, tq 253.8

map1: afr 14.8, whp 274.8, tq 310.9

map 5 (botched, fuel cut off): whp 275.4, tq 314.6

i think the dyno was a low reading one, but some comments i got from the 1er community say that the car is running too lean...what causes it and is there a way to examine this a little bit more?

the car is my DD
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Last edited by alpha8484; 07-30-2013 at 09:51 PM..
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Default 07-30-2013, 10:18 PM

What gear were the pulls made in? Your base numbers are about 30 lower than what stock should be and even then the increase is only 30 rwhp when it should be closer to 70. Did you have a chance to monitor boost during the session? AFR does look a tad lean. Was the dyno loaded or unloaded?

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Default 07-30-2013, 10:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by e46m3to335i
What gear were the pulls made in? Your base numbers are about 30 lower than what stock should be and even then the increase is only 30 rwhp when it should be closer to 70. Did you have a chance to monitor boost during the session? AFR does look a tad lean. Was the dyno loaded or unloaded?

-Nick
i didn't monitor the boost, and i think they did it in 3rd gear maybe? never heard a gear shift during all 3 runs...according to the 4th picture, they started the run at 37mph?

sorry for being a noob, but what does loaded or unloaded dyno mean?
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Default 07-30-2013, 10:51 PM

That was you max AFR...that means nothing as the DME targets 14.7 at low rpms/while cruising. You can see during your run you hit the mid/high 11s. Running leaner will create more power....not less.



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Default 07-30-2013, 10:52 PM

There's your biggest problem. 3rd gear is not the 1:1 gear for your car. Cant remember exactly if its 4th or 5th but its definitely not 3rd. Is your car an auto or manual? Autos will read about 10rwhp lower also depending on mods.

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Default 07-30-2013, 10:54 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveAZ
That was you max AFR...that means nothing as the DME targets 14.7 at low rpms/while cruising. You can see during your run you hit the mid/high 11s. Running leaner will create more power....not less.
is that normal AFR then?
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Default 07-30-2013, 10:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by e46m3to335i
There's your biggest problem. 3rd gear is not the 1:1 gear for your car. Cant remember exactly if its 4th or 5th but its definitely not 3rd. Is your car an auto or manual? Autos will read about 10rwhp lower also depending on mods.

-Nick
mine is an auto...im not sure if it's 3rd gear or not, but no gear changes at all during all runs.
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Default 07-30-2013, 10:56 PM

Your AFR's are fine. Some could consider them a tad lean, some who prefer a more aggressive tune consider it perfectly safe.


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Default 07-30-2013, 10:58 PM

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Originally Posted by e46m3to335i
Your AFR's are fine. Some could consider them a tad lean, some who prefer a more aggressive tune consider it perfectly safe.
i haven't customize the maps from the jb4, but i am experimenting e85 with map 1 and map 5...it seems like map 5 would do better than map 1 isn't it?

before the dyno, it's just strictly on 91oct gas...

with this dyno experience, what should i look for or do so i can get a more accurate reading next time?
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Default 07-30-2013, 11:10 PM

Read this...

and yes....map 5 for playing with E85.

Oh...and log if you want help...everything else is a WAG with no logs.



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Default 07-31-2013, 12:09 AM

the beginning of the run was on *ahem* a private road coming down from 50mph 3rd gear. everything else should be as instructed for datalogging

this is with 35% e85 mix
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Default 07-31-2013, 12:20 AM

Post a log that has a complete WOT 3rd gear pull. This log has a good bit of partial throttle in it. Make sure the gas pedal is completely on the floor.


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Default 07-31-2013, 12:23 AM

You need to go WOT and make sure your DTC is completely defeated. Map 5 is not adapted yet and won't adapt if you don't go WOT to redline three times or so.

Is that 15ohm, or 18ohm? There is a newer version of firmware than what you are using.

Do you have E85 in the tank now? Your turbos have a lot more in them



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Default 07-31-2013, 12:24 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by e46m3to335i
Post a log that has a complete WOT 3rd gear pull. This log has a good bit of partial throttle in it. Make sure the gas pedal is completely on the floor.
i did pull from 3rd gear 2k rpm all the way to 7k rpm...maybe it wasn't WOT enough?
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Default 07-31-2013, 12:28 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveAZ
You need to go WOT and make sure your DTC is completely defeated. Map 5 is not adapted yet and won't adapt if you don't go WOT to redline three times or so.

Is that 15ohm, or 18ohm? There is a newer version of firmware than what you are using.

Do you have E85 in the tank now? Your turbos have a lot more in them
i dont think i have a 15ohm as it's a gen 4 board...i haven't update my netbook for a while :P

oh snap i didn't deactivate DTC too...doh! oh well too late to make another run might do it later...i do need to redline the car more often, pamper the car too much lol

yes i do have 35% e85 mix in the car now shortly after the dyno
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Default 07-31-2013, 12:32 AM

Three WOT 3-4 gears will adapt map 5.

You'd be surprised when going WOT that sometimes your right foot will lift up a lil on accident. I know it sounds weird but you never know you do it until you see it in a log. Just make sure your foot stays planted through the entire pull. Like Steve said, your PWM looks great so your turbos have plenty left in them.


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Default 07-31-2013, 12:38 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by e46m3to335i
Three WOT 3-4 gears will adapt map 5.

You'd be surprised when going WOT that sometimes your right foot will lift up a lil on accident. I know it sounds weird but you never know you do it until you see it in a log. Just make sure your foot stays planted through the entire pull. Like Steve said, your PWM looks great so your turbos have plenty left in them.
i will try more pulls when i have a chance and log it

what's pwm? and i am looking at spreadsheet now. which numbers do i look at for boost, afr, and such?
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Default 07-31-2013, 12:43 AM

18ohm is the G4 board, 15ohm is an upgrade to the G4 board

Okay...so there lies some of your issues. DTC, poor adaption runs, and don't be a Nancy, put the pedal to the floor...just don't hit the kickdown...there is a DIY for a "Kickdown blocker".

Per your log I figured you had added E85 given your trims and FOL (Fuel Open Loop)...your HPFP looks good for the level of E85 you're running. If you decide to up that level much you'll need to log your lpfp and see how it is doing as well. Your trims are good but may adapt more after a few good pulls giving you more headroom for higher E85 percentages if you so choose.

IATs are climbing fairly quickly..guessing you are stock FMIC.

AFRs and timing look good.

The good news is you've left yourself lots of room for improvement with that first dyno the gains should be pretty good next time

Edit:

Here is the latest version of G4 firmware...

Here is the DIY for the kickdown blocker...



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Last edited by Steve @ BMS/Fuel-It!; 07-31-2013 at 04:20 AM..
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Default 07-31-2013, 12:51 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveAZ
15ohm is the G4 board, 18ohm is an upgrade to the G4 board

Okay...so there lies some of your issues. DTC, poor adaption runs, and don't be a Nancy, put the pedal to the floor...just don't hit the kickdown...there is a DIY for a "Kickdown blocker".

Per your log I figured you had added E85 given your trims and FOL (Fuel Open Loop)...your HPFP looks good for the level of E85 you're running. If you decide to up that level much you'll need to log your lpfp and see how it is doing as well. Your trims are good but may adapt more after a few good pulls giving you more headroom for higher E85 percentages if you so choose.

IATs are climbing fairly quickly..guessing you are stock FMIC.

AFRs and timing look good.

The good news is you've left yourself lots of room for improvement with that first dyno the gains should be pretty good next time

Edit:

Here is the latest version of G4 firmware...

Here is the DIY for the kickdown blocker...
yes i do have stock FMIC most likely my next mod

how do i measure lpfp? from what i have read on the forum, lpfp upgrade is needed if i want to do more than 50% e85 mix correct?
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Default 07-31-2013, 01:48 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha8484
i will try more pulls when i have a chance and log it

what's pwm? and i am looking at spreadsheet now. which numbers do i look at for boost, afr, and such?
This should get you started....

It sounds like you're opening the run files in excel...open them in the JB4 software under Data logging/Open log.

As for your LPFP...you're fine right now and we can cross that bridge when we get to it. If you're HPFP isn't taking a dive...don't worry about it.

This is your log broken down for easy reading
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Last edited by Steve @ BMS/Fuel-It!; 07-31-2013 at 03:19 AM..
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Default 07-31-2013, 03:16 AM

SteveAZ, your dedication and time spent helping people out (inc my self you have helped) is remarkable, great to see
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Default 07-31-2013, 05:03 AM

I think it would be great for a sticky to be made going though a log start to finish. Like how to do it and what the chart / csv mean. Pretty much exactly what steveAZ said


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Default 07-31-2013, 06:33 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by knissel
I think it would be great for a sticky to be made going though a log start to finish. Like how to do it and what the chart / csv mean. Pretty much exactly what steveAZ said

+1
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Default 07-31-2013, 08:24 AM

great info!!!
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Default 07-31-2013, 10:05 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by knissel
I think it would be great for a sticky to be made going though a log start to finish. Like how to do it and what the chart / csv mean. Pretty much exactly what steveAZ said
+1000

It would keep the number of threads being started that have already been discussed.

This forum has needed this for a long time IMHO.

-Nick


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