N54Tech.com - International Turbo Racing Discussion
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high.spool.teacher high.spool.teacher is offline
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Arrow Stock Turbos or Hybrids When Limited to 91 Oct? - 08-05-2020, 07:05 AM

How's it going guys? Thanks for welcoming me into the forum. About 6 months ago, I purchased a 2008 335i in Atlantic Blue Metallic with Vargas Stage 1 turbos with 13,000 kms on them and a Dinan Stage 2 tune. After downloading MHD I found out I was running 14 PSI tapering down to 10 at WOT. Shortly after, I flashed MHD Stage 2+, and three days after that, I had a blown rear VTT turbo . I don't blame this on MHD. The turbos only had 20,000 kms at the time of failure, so we'll chalk it up to a learning experience and move on. Now, I'm trying to decide whether I want to upgrade, or just put a set of brand new stock turbos in the car. My current mods are ******* *********, secondary *** delete, Dinan axleback exhaust, AEM cone filters, aluminum chargepipe with TiAl knockoff BOV, and an upgraded intercooler. My goals are to be above 400 WHP and possibly up to 500, but I am limited to 91 octane. If I upgrade, it will be either Pure 600's, or the eBay 17T. Cost is also a factor as the Pure turbos with installation will cost me about 13% of my annual gross income. Is it worth it to upgrade, or would I be better off sticking with stock turbos for my power goals and fuel limitations? I plan on owning the car for a long time and don't want to do this job twice. Most if not all other maintenance is up to date, so it's important to me that these turbos don't have problems, and don't disappoint me either. I will be upgrading my inlets either way, so I don't expect stock turbos to feel any slower than the Stage 1's. The question is, will the Pure 600's or Ebay 17t's be that much more enjoyable/reliable to justify the price increase, new tune, and LPFP?

P.S. I am not opposed to adding a port injection meth kit in the future if it will help me get my numbers up, but it won't be for another couple years.

Suggestions and recommendations would be great. Thanks!
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Ripper61 Ripper61 is offline
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Default 08-05-2020, 12:57 PM

I'm no expert but will chime in with my $0.02.
Whether you upgrade turbos or not, with those other upgrades, I'd look at an original TiAl BOV, not the knockoff. Poorly functioning BOVs or diverter valves can cause a turbo to fail. That's likely what caused my front turbo failure prematurely.

That said, my power goals were/are similar to yours. I wanted to get close to 500 hp, but with longevity as a major requirement, I felt I needed a sturdier upgrade to the stockers. About 6 months and 6K miles into them, I have been very happy with my choice of RB 1's. Ended up about 470HP on E30. With my mods, I probably could have gotten there on the stockers...before they crapped out again.


2010 535i M-sport, SAT, BMS DCI & OCC, RB Ones, inlets & PCV, VRSF ****, ER FMIC & CP, Tial Q BOV 1/4" hose, N20 TMAP, PR Stage 2 LPFP, Motiv pro-tuned w/MHD, OE M6 167's, 467hp/477tq w/E30
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high.spool.teacher high.spool.teacher is offline
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Default 08-06-2020, 08:44 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripper61
I'm no expert but will chime in with my $0.02.
Whether you upgrade turbos or not, with those other upgrades, I'd look at an original TiAl BOV, not the knockoff. Poorly functioning BOVs or diverter valves can cause a turbo to fail. That's likely what caused my front turbo failure prematurely.

That said, my power goals were/are similar to yours. I wanted to get close to 500 hp, but with longevity as a major requirement, I felt I needed a sturdier upgrade to the stockers. About 6 months and 6K miles into them, I have been very happy with my choice of RB 1's. Ended up about 470HP on E30. With my mods, I probably could have gotten there on the stockers...before they crapped out again.
Hey, thanks for the reply. I was honestly quite happy with the "Stage 1's" and would be happy to go with Stage 1 Pure, but I don't know how I feel about spending the money just to be back at the same power level again. At that point it might be better to save and go with stockers...? Not sure. Leaning towards "full send" for Pure 600's and then adding P.I. meth next year. But we'll see
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codesx's Avatar
codesx codesx is offline
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Car: 2008 335i Vert (E93, N54)
Default 08-12-2020, 09:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by high.spool.teacher
Hey, thanks for the reply. I was honestly quite happy with the "Stage 1's" and would be happy to go with Stage 1 Pure, but I don't know how I feel about spending the money just to be back at the same power level again. At that point it might be better to save and go with stockers...? Not sure. Leaning towards "full send" for Pure 600's and then adding P.I. meth next year. But we'll see

Hard to spend money and not make an improvement.
Your base setup is solid. 91 Octane is the limiter.
Are you open to Ethanol blends or Methanol?
If so, 500 WHP on 91 is valid.
If not, 400 WHP should be the assumption, and that would be high for stock on 91 IMO.
I ran 94 on stockers at 15-17 PSI, and 17 PSI was only OK for the first run on a cool day. I know cars vary. Stockers will run hotter at 17 PSI than RBs will.

I'm firmly with Ripper61 on the RB turbos. (though there are all opinions out there... sample as many as possible and make your own choice.
There are some that would deliver you 400 WHP at a very excellent price point. Further, looking at longevity, RB has a great track record.

So, firm up if you are OK with supplementing fuel. (draw backs and gains...)
Then you'll know if you are going for 400 or 500 WHP. Then you know what turbos you need to go with. (always get something that is rated above your goal, not grossly above, but enough, so they do not strain, yet spool fast)

** EDIT ** If your Vargus turbo(s) cooked that early, check if they will WR.




2008 335i Convertible, E93, N54, A/T (200,000+ km)
Wheels: 322 | Tires: R.275/35r18, F.245/40r18
TUNE: JB4/Trebila | 24 PSI | 100% Meth via dual CM5 | 94 Octane
BMS: JB4, Map 6 | WMI | 5" FMIC | OCC | DCI | Cowel Filters
RB: Inlets | PCV Valve
VRSF: DiPis | CP
HKS BOV
xHP Stage 3
NGK-97506 @ .020

Maintenance:
2018 - A/T Replaced | Ign Coils | Walnut Blast
2019 - Index 12 Injectors | VCG | OFHG & O-rings | TStat
2020 - OPG | Battery | IBS | Water Pump | Plugs | Alternator
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Dave @ BMS/Fuel-It!'s Avatar
Dave @ BMS/Fuel-It! Dave @ BMS/Fuel-It! is offline
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Default 08-13-2020, 08:20 AM

I was able to squeeze 500 awhp out of my pure 2' hi flo, and stage 2 bucketless LPFP on 93.

Personally I am always an advocate for more headroom when it comes to turbos.


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