N54Tech.com - International Turbo Racing Discussion
(#51)
Old
SteamSpeed SteamSpeed is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 32
Join Date: Jun 2016
Car: Impreza GM6
Default 08-21-2018, 02:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer_Boost
They are logging through MHD not the JB4. You can also download the CSV from Datazap .me.
I think they are using a COBB AP, and you are correct, datazap has all of the data which can be freely downloaded.
Reply With Quote
(#52)
Old
SteamSpeed SteamSpeed is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 32
Join Date: Jun 2016
Car: Impreza GM6
Default 08-21-2018, 02:09 PM

Here is the new data in a chart:
2011 335i M-Sport Manual
3rd gear pulls
92 octane with single port meth

The red lines are where we left off last time. Looks like it is hitting peak torque around 4k fairly consistently. It looks like we were able to pick up another 50 ft*lbs and 50 whp comparatively. Version 9 has new colder plugs, so the tune is backed off.

Reply With Quote
(#53)
Old
JacquesN55 JacquesN55 is offline
Senior Member
 
Posts: 515
Join Date: Jun 2015
Car: 2011 N55 135DCT
Default 08-21-2018, 02:29 PM

Why os torque droppimg off so bad


2011 135 n55 DCT RHD, MAMBA GTX3576R (5962) single turbo kit. Jb4 FBO. METH KIT WITH cm7 and cm4
Reply With Quote
(#54)
Old
Bimmer_Boost's Avatar
Bimmer_Boost Bimmer_Boost is offline
Legend
 
Posts: 1,161
Join Date: Oct 2014
Car: 2011 e92 335i
Default 08-21-2018, 04:02 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteamSpeed
I think they are using a COBB AP, and you are correct, datazap has all of the data which can be freely downloaded.
Name:  MHD.jpg
Views: 395
Size:  55.4 KB


2011 E92 335i Auto
12.0 @ 125MPH JB4
11.7 @ 120MPH E30 MHD / 0-60 3.66
Sold

2014 E84 X1 35i 13.19 @ 102MPH / 0-60 4.73 / 293 AWHP 305 AWTQ When stock
ER Chargepipe | BMS Intake | JB4 ISO |
Reply With Quote
(#55)
Old
SteamSpeed SteamSpeed is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 32
Join Date: Jun 2016
Car: Impreza GM6
Default 08-21-2018, 05:53 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JacquesN55
Why os torque droppimg off so bad
I know probably most people are interested in the technical details, but you can read on if you are or skip this post if you don't like reading about it.

There are lots of factors. The main turbo factors are:
hot side:
- flow through the turbines section
- efficiency of the turbine section to generate shaft speed
cold side:
- turbine shaft speed
- boost pressure
- comp wheel flow
- comp wheel efficiency
Note: both sides are interconnected with the turbine shaft.

In this case, the turbine housing in this case probably has the most impact on the torque curve. The basic idea is that the exhaust can't flow enough through the OEM turbine housing to keep up with the compressor wheel's output. I think the chart shows that the comp wheel is flowing a lot around 4-5k and the system is less efficient above 4.5-5k.

All systems should peak and drop off, but ideally you want to design the system to have a long flat torque curve. Tuning can also limit the initial surge of torque.
Reply With Quote
(#56)
Old
blackhat75 blackhat75 is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 80
Join Date: Jul 2012
Car: guess...
Default 08-30-2018, 10:07 AM

I'll probably try this turbo out. It's seems the engineering's there. I would like to hear some real world testimonials though. I hate being the guinea pig:p
Reply With Quote
(#57)
Old
blackhat75 blackhat75 is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 80
Join Date: Jul 2012
Car: guess...
Default 09-06-2018, 08:24 AM

I think this is the month I pull the trigger on a turbo upgrade. I really liked where this 78R was heading but it seems the detail train has come to a stop. Did anyone ponied up and got one of these lately?
Reply With Quote
(#58)
Old
zole2112 zole2112 is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 54
Join Date: Jul 2017
Car: 2013 BMW 335xi F30 N55
Default 09-06-2018, 09:32 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhat75
I think this is the month I pull the trigger on a turbo upgrade. I really liked where this 78R was heading but it seems the detail train has come to a stop. Did anyone ponied up and got one of these lately?
I decided on the Speedtech kit, with the BW8374, just waiting to install later in Sept. Giving me a license to fly!


2013 BMW 335xi F30 N55 PWG
Injen CAI/ER CP/VRSF C-less DPipe/Active A FMIC/JB4 ISO_11 - Map 7/e50/Custom tuned exhaust/stock turbo/Resonator Delete/MHD BEF with JB4 e85/Stage 2 LPFP Walbro 450/MHD BEF
Waiting to install: Speedtech BW 8374/PI & Tune by Trebila
Reply With Quote
(#59)
Old
blackhat75 blackhat75 is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 80
Join Date: Jul 2012
Car: guess...
Default 09-10-2018, 12:54 PM

I like the fact that the 78R doesn't have clipping. Wonder if they tested for clipped vs. larger wheel? Wonder if Pure did the same comparison and found clipped to be better for our(N55) situation? They're up here in the Northwest so I'm gonna run by and talk with 'em. If they're serious about selling this to the masses, they could really use some more publicity.
Reply With Quote
(#60)
Old
SteamSpeed SteamSpeed is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 32
Join Date: Jun 2016
Car: Impreza GM6
Default 11-04-2018, 12:50 AM

We finally got some dyno time for the N55 STX 78R (aka stage 2.5) on the 335i at CarbConn in Kirkland WA! This car has baselines going from FBO -> SteamSpeed Stage 1 -> SteamSpeed Stage 2.5



The tune still isn’t done, but, it is the current state of where we are at. There is still a problem with the knock pulling timing, so the timing and boost are set low for now.

TL,DR: 456 WHP, and 518 ft*lbs with just 21 psi & 9 degrees of timing!

Stage 2.5 Setup:
– FBO 2011 BMW 335i manual
SteamSpeed STX 78R BB Turbo
– Single port meth
– Only 21 psi, 9 degrees of timing
Result:
– 456 whp, 518 ft*lbs torque

Here is stage 2.5 vs SteamSpeed STX 67 (aka stage 1)

VS Stage 1 Setup:
– Stage 1 SteamSpeed STX 67 Turbo
– Single port meth
– 21 psi, 14 degrees of timing


VS FBO:


Stage 2.5 vs Stage 1 vs FBO:


Stage 1 vs 2.5 turbos:

Last edited by SteamSpeed; 11-04-2018 at 12:58 PM..
Reply With Quote
(#61)
Old
blackhat75 blackhat75 is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 80
Join Date: Jul 2012
Car: guess...
Default 11-05-2018, 09:08 AM

Glad to see your customer got his car to CarbConn for some dyno time. They're a great local shop.
My opinion: you should get a shop car and perform testing to expedite results. Not only has this waiting gone on too long but I think these numbers probably do more harm than good. I know it's the customers car and who knows how he's 'tuning' it but with a car(and time) of your own, you could publish results much faster and more reflective of what a tuned version of this product could be.
By the way, with Christmas coming around and this still being 'very experimental', will you be offering any incentive or discount on this turbo? You could use some more press..
Reply With Quote
(#62)
Old
Newguy123's Avatar
Newguy123 Newguy123 is offline
Demigod
 
Posts: 1,780
Join Date: May 2014
Car: 12' 135i
Default 11-06-2018, 06:44 PM

So 45x whp on a dynojet at 21psi? Quite far off from your VD claims LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteamSpeed
We are aware that Pure Stage 2 is popular for N55, but popular doesn't mean better nessiciarily.

In this case of BB vs JB CHRA, if all other things are equal, the turbo with a BB CHRA will always be superior to the one with a JB CHRA. I think you will be hard pressed to make a logical argument to the contrary.

In fairness, data is just data. As we've clearly stated, this is just log data put into VirtualDyno with default settings, and to take it for what it is worth. We've also provided a link to the raw log data from street pulls if you want to poke around the data yourself if you are into that.

Never the less, I think the data is already clearly showing that this turbo can flow a lot more than the Pure stage 2 option with the data, potentially producing as much as 100 ft*lbs more torque at 18 psi. The logs show what the MAF is reading. Compare it to your own logs.

Again, here is the data. Note, this isn't even a finished tune.

I am not a patent lawyer, but I am the inventor of 6 patents (so far). In my experience, I can't see anything that Pure has done that is unique, novel, or hasn't been done before, so I doubt you have any technology that could be patent protected. If you had some unique turbo technology that hadn't been done 100 times before, I imagine that you would have filed for patent protection. If I am wrong, I would be very interested in seeing your patent filing numbers and reading the claims of said technology.


18 Glacier white RS3
#PURETURBOS
#FUELIT
Reply With Quote
(#63)
Old
JacquesN55 JacquesN55 is offline
Senior Member
 
Posts: 515
Join Date: Jun 2015
Car: 2011 N55 135DCT
Default 11-07-2018, 08:46 AM

Pure made 450whp at 16 17 psi


2011 135 n55 DCT RHD, MAMBA GTX3576R (5962) single turbo kit. Jb4 FBO. METH KIT WITH cm7 and cm4
Reply With Quote
(#64)
Old
houtan houtan is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 417
Join Date: Sep 2014
Car: 135i
Default 11-09-2018, 02:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newguy123
So 45x whp on a dynojet at 21psi? Quite far off from your VD claims LOL
Seriously! And where are the logs?
Reply With Quote
(#65)
Old
SteamSpeed SteamSpeed is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 32
Join Date: Jun 2016
Car: Impreza GM6
Default 11-10-2018, 05:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newguy123
So 45x whp on a dynojet at 21psi? Quite far off from your VD claims LOL
I guess some people are never satisfied. It is already making more torque an power than the PS2, and it should make even more power with more timing...I recon there is at least another 50 whp on the table.

This is what Pure has published on their website for their N55 stage 2 turbo on a DynoJet and 335i:
453 whp, 498 ft*lbs
with an undisclosed amount of boost and timing, with an undisclosed type of fuel. I think it is safe to assume that Pure is publishing their best case result here.


Anyway, I am not sure what you are personally bothered about our claims. Even if we stopped tuning the car and it had similar hp numbers with somewhat higher torque, BB is always superior to JB. You disagree? BB will always be more reliable, efficient, and more responsive than JB. It would be a better driving car. I guess it is cool if you would rather pay more money for a remanufactured JB turbo; that is your call. We won't judge you.

In any case, this tune has only 9 degrees of timing because the tuner hasn't resolved the knock at the higher RPM bands with more timing; the compressor wheel has plenty of flow left to give. With our stage 1 turbo, this car was running 14 degrees of timing, so there is still a lot more power to be had with more 5 degrees of timing. I would expect there is at least another 50 whp left on the table.

If you are not familiar with tuning, the basic algorithm for tuning is: 1. dial in the fuel to hit a target AFR, 2. up the boost to hit a target boost level, 3. dial up the timing until the engine stops making more power. The real power gains become manifest in step 3.
Reply With Quote
(#66)
Old
Stoolz Stoolz is offline
Senior Member
 
Posts: 849
Join Date: Jan 2015
Car: 11 135i
Default 11-10-2018, 05:32 PM

I'm impressed!
Keep pushing and posting results.
Was very happy with my lil BB turbo.


2011 135i Dct coupe Alpine white n blacked out.
VTT DBB,Pure Inlet, JB4,GFB DV+,MHD,Fuel-it Platinum PI with Cm 5 - 50:50 Meth, E85, N20 tmap, Fuel It S2 lpfp, KB Boost A Spark, BMS IC /CP / IT / OCC, SG Boost Pipe, Quaife LSD, Federal RS-RR,M4 Flywheel, SSP R spec clutches, Kw V3 & Pro rolled guards, AR CL **, Bmw PE. Custom mi**ipe kitties. 1000wrms custom audio.
Reply With Quote
(#67)
Old
houtan houtan is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 417
Join Date: Sep 2014
Car: 135i
Default 11-10-2018, 07:22 PM

First off, congrats on the solid Dyno results.

The issue is, You are comparing your Dyno to one Dyno on Pure’s website and then claim your turbo makes more power than a PS2. You also fault them for not providing information on boost, fueling, etc, yet you do not provide any of the same information. And no, your word on how much boost and timing the current Dyno is running is not sufficient to make a claim such as the one you are making.

Ultimately, independent user results have the most weight imo.

Here are my PS2 results, with logs. Full transparency, the way it should be. Take a look and and you will find out you are far from superior to a PS2. https://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52937

Not knocking your results at all. Just your unsubstantiated claims.

Last edited by houtan; 11-10-2018 at 07:53 PM..
Reply With Quote
(#68)
Old
Lowon's Avatar
Lowon Lowon is offline
Demigod
 
Posts: 1,805
Join Date: Mar 2016
Car: Bmw M2
Default 11-11-2018, 12:46 AM

Results aren't bad at all, im going to assume single port meth means 1 methanol nozzle and pump gas? What was the water meth mixture, and what octane pump gas? IMO it's not too bad at all but it would be more attractive if the turbo was in the $1,600-$1,800 range. But maybe with more dyno results and users testing it, the general tone on this turbo will change.

Do you guys have turbo blanket options for this?


2017 BMW M2 - Alpine White, 6MT, Fully Loaded
Mods: Stock for now
Reply With Quote
(#69)
Old
Martin.328 Martin.328 is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 43
Join Date: Sep 2017
Car: 16 328
Default 11-11-2018, 02:51 PM

Im willing to test out the turbo, i have a dyno near by.
Reply With Quote
(#70)
Old
Lowon's Avatar
Lowon Lowon is offline
Demigod
 
Posts: 1,805
Join Date: Mar 2016
Car: Bmw M2
Default 11-11-2018, 09:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin.328
Im willing to test out the turbo, i have a dyno near by.
it'd be cool to see some more data on these things!
But just curious as from your bio it looks like you have a 16 328i so an N20? Which would not be compatible as this is an N55 turbo... (Unless you have an N55 laying around and have the proper supporting mods to max out this turbo) but all in all I hope you go through with buying and testing this turbo out man, it's always nice to see new data on turbos.


2017 BMW M2 - Alpine White, 6MT, Fully Loaded
Mods: Stock for now
Reply With Quote
(#71)
Old
Martin.328 Martin.328 is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 43
Join Date: Sep 2017
Car: 16 328
Default 11-12-2018, 04:51 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowon
it'd be cool to see some more data on these things!
But just curious as from your bio it looks like you have a 16 328i so an N20? Which would not be compatible as this is an N55 turbo... (Unless you have an N55 laying around and have the proper supporting mods to max out this turbo) but all in all I hope you go through with buying and testing this turbo out man, it's always nice to see new data on turbos.
I have an f30 335 6mt, i dont know how to change the bio from when i originally signed up
Reply With Quote
(#72)
Old
Lowon's Avatar
Lowon Lowon is offline
Demigod
 
Posts: 1,805
Join Date: Mar 2016
Car: Bmw M2
Default 11-12-2018, 12:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin.328
I have an f30 335 6mt, i dont know how to change the bio from when i originally signed up
I see, that's great! I hope ya get a good deal to maybe test for them, I'd like to see more data.


2017 BMW M2 - Alpine White, 6MT, Fully Loaded
Mods: Stock for now
Reply With Quote
(#73)
Old
SteamSpeed SteamSpeed is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 32
Join Date: Jun 2016
Car: Impreza GM6
Default 11-13-2018, 03:55 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowon
Results aren't bad at all, im going to assume single port meth means 1 methanol nozzle and pump gas? What was the water meth mixture, and what octane pump gas? IMO it's not too bad at all but it would be more attractive if the turbo was in the $1,600-$1,800 range. But maybe with more dyno results and users testing it, the general tone on this turbo will change.

Do you guys have turbo blanket options for this?
Yes, it he is running a single nozzle meth setup. Multi port meth would be better. I am not sure if it is 50/50 or 100% meth. In WA we have 92 octane, so that is what he normally runs in his car.

This customer really likes his remote e-tuner, but I feel like a local tuner would be able to resolve the tune quicker. I get the impression that BMW guys get a lot more e-tuning done than Subaru or Evo guys.

We do not have a turbo blanket for this car, but we do make plenty of other custom blankets for other turbos. We didn't pursue the N55 because it seems like the OEM heat shield is welded on. Are you looking for one just for the turbine housing scroll area, or the whole manifold turbine housing combo?
Reply With Quote
(#74)
Old
SteamSpeed SteamSpeed is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 32
Join Date: Jun 2016
Car: Impreza GM6
Default 11-13-2018, 04:03 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin.328
Im willing to test out the turbo, i have a dyno near by.
Hi Martin, yes we are currently running this turbo at a discounted price to get more data points out there. We have already remanufactured a few EWG ready for production, so turnaround should be quick.

To be clear though, in terms of "testing," we are already satisfied with the design and performance of this turbo based on our testing results. Our first unit already has 10s of thousands of miles on it, so it is proved reliable. With the BB CHRA, it is hardly breaking a sweat at 21 PSI. The performance is in line with what we would expect with lower boost, and not a lot of timing.

We would love to see someone running this turbo with 30-45 psi of boost with e85 or race gas, or multi port meth to push it a little harder. I don't think we are yet really getting the most of out the 78mm comp wheel.

Or if you want to just run it at normal boost levels an pump gas, your data point is welcome too.

-Sam
Reply With Quote
(#75)
Old
blackhat75 blackhat75 is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 80
Join Date: Jul 2012
Car: guess...
Default 11-14-2018, 10:04 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteamSpeed
Hi Martin, yes we are currently running this turbo at a discounted price to get more data points out there.
-Sam
So $2499 is the discounted price to lure customers in to test this turbo for you? Does it come with a stickers too?
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




vBulletin Skin developed by: vBStyles.com
Copyright 2007 - 2018, N54tech.com