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keyap keyap is offline
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Default 10-13-2018, 04:13 PM

Quote:
Trying to figure out why my HPFP keeps crashing.
I'm using E60 mix for the moment, PI is working fine, Fuel trims are set to 25 across the board, AFRs are around 12.9 and 13.0 on boost, but my HPFP is crashing to 7 and getting misfires due to this.
Should I raise Fuel Bias even if Fuel Trims are holding on 25 on boost?

Hey ganque,

Could be a few things but at the levels you're running it may be worth trying to eliminate false knock as a cause. In some instances, I have seen it result in what appears to be misfires due to HPFP fuelling issues!

What BEF are you running and what do the LCM tables show? False knock manifests more in high load BEFs and there have been a few threads recently which speculate how E N55 knock sensitivity may increase relative to DME load targets. (It's worth reading Jay's thread here: https://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54932)

If the LCM in the BEF is >160, try lowering to 150 and re-running to see if the HPFP behaves better. If it does then it probably is false knock. Make sure you log though and keep an eye on other fuel related parameters to make sure they are OK as changing the LCM can have other effects.

I also would not recommend running a decreased load target longer term unless you are comfortable 'tweaking' other parameters, especially if you are a DCT as it is directly linked to plate pressure, with lower load meaning less pressure and more slip. Terry has done quite a lot of R&D with regard to BEFs and having a higher LCM does has advantages. If you aren't a DCT it may be worth dropping Jay a PM as, I believe, pre his current setup he didn't have a DCT and by further experimenting with load targets and other parameters got the car running quite sweet. I seem to remember there are some of his posts somewhere about this. If you are a DCT then things become more complicated and limited!

It may also be worthwhile posting or linking your question to a new post in the forum support section (https://www.n54tech.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=45) as it's likely to trigger more responses.

You may also want to quickly check out this thread (https://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38430). It was when I first had my PS2 and pretty much shows some of the first logs I grabbed on my current setup where I had similar HPFP issues. I initially suspected the pump/fuel setup, to later find it was false knock. The thread is a little outdated now given it's pre MHD. Also, larger turbo R&D was in quite an early stage so some content was speculation however the principle applies.


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JB4 | BMS OCC | N20 TMap | Fuel-It! PI | AIC6 PI Controller | Fuel-It! Fuel Lines | Fuel-It! Stage 2 LPFP | Continental In-line E Sensor | ER Charge Pipe | Pure Stage 2 Turbo | Pure High Flow Inlet | GFB DV+ | Richter C'less D/Pipe | Berk Race Full Exhaust | MFactory Pro Helical LSD (75% Bias Ratio) | eDiff Disabled Via Coding | MFactory Solid Diff Bushes | Diff Lockdown Bracket | Custom 98G0B BEF | NGK 5992s (0.020")

Last edited by keyap; 10-14-2018 at 04:37 AM..
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(#452)
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Default Bosch Injectors. - 10-19-2018, 01:20 PM

So im tring to track down a problem with my Port Injection system. When the Injectors are connected to the Controller the 12v power going to the injector is seen on the Hot wire and the Negative wire. Should the 12v supply stop at the injector or does it back feed to the ground side until that wire is grounded to fire the injector?


'14 435I RWD MHD "Twisted Custom Tune" BigBoost Stage 3 Turbo PR Coils XHP Trans Tune GFB DV+ VRSF Race Cooler VRSF CP BMS Intake Borla ATAK Exhaust Custom Down-pipe 2 LPFP Phoenix Racing PI Intake Manifold AIC2-P controller e85 3.5 TMAP NGK 5992 Plugs "0.020"
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blackhat75 blackhat75 is offline
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Default 03-14-2019, 03:56 PM

Phataxe,
On my BMS PI controller, there's a 2-wire pigtail leading to the injector harness. It's a blue wire and a green wire. It's meant to be plug-n-play simple. I'm not sure what you're referring to if not these dedicated wires. Are you trying something else custom?
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blackhat75 blackhat75 is offline
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Default PI RPM Wire help - 03-17-2019, 02:53 PM

Hey guys,
I'm installing the PI box now. The last wire to connect is the RPM wire. I'm looking for a slightly textured black wire but I only see a blackish wire, same size as all the others, in the bundle exiting the passenger side of the box. If I tug on the wire, it looks like it goes all the way through the box; in the passenger side and out the other side. Is this the right one? It's not textured as I can tell. Any help? I don't want to fry something...
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Default 03-17-2019, 03:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhat75
Hey guys,
I'm installing the PI box now. The last wire to connect is the RPM wire. I'm looking for a slightly textured black wire but I only see a blackish wire, same size as all the others, in the bundle exiting the passenger side of the box. If I tug on the wire, it looks like it goes all the way through the box; in the passenger side and out the other side. Is this the right one? It's not textured as I can tell. Any help? I don't want to fry something...
Sounds like when I did it, car still runs...
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blackhat75 blackhat75 is offline
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Default 03-17-2019, 04:01 PM

I took a picture of the wire I'm referring to but my phones lowest setting is too much to upload(740kb).
The only other ALL BLACK wire I see is a think black one leading from the passenger side orifice to a white, down-facing connector. I don't think that's it. Every other black wire I found was a combo color wire like black/green, black/blue, black/yellow, etc. Is it safe to say that of the two ALL BLACK wires available, the thinner one would be correct? I don't see any texturing on it at all. Maybe that's only on early models? Mines a 2012. Thanks for your time too.
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blackhat75 blackhat75 is offline
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Default 03-18-2019, 11:36 AM

Question:
If I have the orange(fat yellow) wire connect to a relay to turn on the secondary pump(shurflow 300) for meth, is there an adjustment for the pump to turn on at say 10psi to pressurize the rail, prior to the injectors firing. I'm worried about dry firing them.
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blackhat75 blackhat75 is offline
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Default 03-24-2019, 05:52 PM

Question:
I read here that upon installing PI, start off using map 4 to get things dialed in and verify things are all working...makes sense. In order to do so, wouldn't I need to set meth trigger mode under 'use adjustments' tab to '1' so meth fires on all maps or do PI not take trigger mode setting into account? It just triggers on all maps? Thanks
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Default 03-24-2019, 07:04 PM

PI and WMI are different things. Are you using a PI controller? No need to adjust the meth trigger mode for that. As long as fuel enrichment is set it will trigger.


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It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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blackhat75 blackhat75 is offline
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Default 03-24-2019, 10:45 PM

I understand, thanks Terry.
Yes, I'm using the BMS PI controller.

Are 'Boost Additive' and 'Min Flow(PSI)' under the methanol tab functional now with PI installed instead of WMI, because I have Scaling set/locked to 100 per instructions. Is scaling=99 only for N54 installs?

Last edited by blackhat75; 03-25-2019 at 10:33 AM..
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blackhat75 blackhat75 is offline
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Default 03-26-2019, 08:22 PM

I've tried setting scaling to 99 because of so many conflicting instructions and it seems to do something to Fuel_EN, even though the Fuel-It instructions for N55 PWG(PDF) says 100. I guess I'll just trying things.
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Default 03-27-2019, 12:12 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhat75
I've tried setting scaling to 99 because of so many conflicting instructions and it seems to do something to Fuel_EN, even though the Fuel-It instructions for N55 PWG(PDF) says 100. I guess I'll just trying things.
We try to differentiate the PI injection with those values. You can use either one, post a log though!


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Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, S55s, N63s, and S63s!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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blackhat75 blackhat75 is offline
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Default 03-27-2019, 01:52 PM

THank you so much Payam! I'm glad that either one will work although I think it caused more confusion(for me) than needed. I'll try to get a log tonight through 3rd. I'm guessing I have air in my meth pump line. We'll see. Thanks again.
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blackhat75 blackhat75 is offline
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Default 03-28-2019, 06:16 AM

I've attached a quick log from tonight. It looks like something's happening. I see Fuel_EN and meth both doing something but unsure how to interpret it. While cruising I had an idea to be able to prime the meth pump. Before, with the FSB, I'd just tap the 'Prime' button in the Water/Meth Injection tab. Since I have the PI controller connected to the pump through a 30A relay, could I set up a momentary push button under the dash that triggers the relay manually? I would also install a shrader valve at the far end of the rail to create a vent while I'm pushing this manual prime button to let the air in the line out. This is pretty McGuyver but I think it'd work. Is there another way to achieve this pump priming function within the JB4 with the PI controller instead of the FSB?
Looking forward to hearing thoughts, ideas, constructive criticism, etc.
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File Type: csv 2019-03-27 20_18_56_Map-1.csv (8.4 KB, 11 views)
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blackhat75 blackhat75 is offline
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Default 03-28-2019, 07:54 PM

Actually, I think I'm making this too complicated. How often am i going to need to bleed bubbles out of the meth fuel lines and rail? If i just install a momentary button at the meth pumps' power relay, along with a schrader valve adapted to the rails' end, I can press the valve with one hand and hit the button with the other to prime the lines, done. I found a picture of something like what I want to try. If I really wanted to waste time, I could install a solenoid at the rails' end and have it run/drain back to the reservoir. Then, wire it to that same button to prime the pump. With the button mounted in the cabin, I could do this once a year system check from the comfort of my heated seats, lol.
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Terry @ BMS's Avatar
Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
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Default 03-28-2019, 09:52 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhat75
I've attached a quick log from tonight. It looks like something's happening. I see Fuel_EN and meth both doing something but unsure how to interpret it. While cruising I had an idea to be able to prime the meth pump. Before, with the FSB, I'd just tap the 'Prime' button in the Water/Meth Injection tab. Since I have the PI controller connected to the pump through a 30A relay, could I set up a momentary push button under the dash that triggers the relay manually? I would also install a shrader valve at the far end of the rail to create a vent while I'm pushing this manual prime button to let the air in the line out. This is pretty McGuyver but I think it'd work. Is there another way to achieve this pump priming function within the JB4 with the PI controller instead of the FSB?
Looking forward to hearing thoughts, ideas, constructive criticism, etc.
Update the JB4 firmare v15 is a couple versions old.

Fuel enrichment just means a request is made to the PI controller, and the WMI signal back is the response. In terms of "prime" with a meth PI setup there normally isn't a prime process.


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Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, S55s, N63s, and S63s!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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blackhat75 blackhat75 is offline
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Default 03-28-2019, 11:10 PM

Cool, thanks Terry. I'll update tomorrow after lunch.
So it's good that I'm seeing both request and response signals graphed. If I'm still not spraying, I'm either out of meth or air still in the lines which has always been a problem. Mine seems to evaporate fast under the hood if not used daily. Even with foam tube insulation around the hoses. The schrader valve in the rail will help that I think. Maybe play with those low-pressure warning tire stem caps; it'd show if the rail's holding pressure at a glance.
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Default 04-08-2019, 10:10 AM

Hi everyone,
My PI is working properly. But I also have the FSB connected with the BMS WMI on a CM3 nozzle just to cool down IATs but seems that my meth is not triggering.
My current WMI settings are:

Meth Safety: 3
Meth Trigger: 1

Is this the correct setting? I tried to purge the line on Map 3 but looks like the meth solenoid is not opening but I can hear the Pump working and pressurizing the line.

Thanks in advance
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blackhat75 blackhat75 is offline
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Default 04-08-2019, 10:20 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ganque
Hi everyone,
My PI is working properly. But I also have the FSB connected with the BMS WMI on a CM3 nozzle just to cool down IATs but seems that my meth is not triggering.
My current WMI settings are:

Meth Safety: 3
Meth Trigger: 1

Is this the correct setting? I tried to purge the line on Map 3 but looks like the meth solenoid is not opening but I can hear the Pump working and pressurizing the line.

Thanks in advance
So you have the JB4 connected to both BMS PI controller and FSB. PI controller is suppose to fire your port injectors and the FSB is wired to only spray a single CM3 in CP? What's turning on you pump, the PIC or FSB? Can you post a log? Even if it's garbage, the header will give a lot of info you left out.
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ganque ganque is offline
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Default 04-08-2019, 10:50 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhat75
So you have the JB4 connected to both BMS PI controller and FSB. PI controller is suppose to fire your port injectors and the FSB is wired to only spray a single CM3 in CP? What's turning on you pump, the PIC or FSB? Can you post a log? Even if it's garbage, the header will give a lot of info you left out.
According to the N55 Port Injection install guide:
Quote:
Can I use port injection along with my water/methanol injection kit?

If equipped with WMI we suggest either removing it or going down to a single CM3 or CM5 nozzle primarily for cooling. When using the BMS PI controller the FSB orange wire will remain in place for the WMI trigger but the FSB blue wire will stay disconnected as its replaced by the PI controller signal.
That's exactly how I set it up in my car, but looks like it has to be with the JB4 settings.

And to your 2nd question the answer is Yes, PI controller is firing the port injectors and the FSB is wired to only spray a single CM3 in CP.
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blackhat75 blackhat75 is offline
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Default 04-08-2019, 11:10 AM

So your pump that's feeding meth to everything is turning on but no meth is coming out?

Can you see your request(FuelEN) and response(Meth) traces in your log graph?

Meth scaling set to 100?

Where's your Fuel Bias set to?

Is your FW compatible with PI(later than N55_ISO_15)? Is your 24K22 chip updated?

Do you have the PIC turning on your pump through a 30A relay? How's it wired?
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ganque ganque is offline
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Default 04-08-2019, 11:42 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhat75
So your pump that's feeding meth to everything is turning on but no meth is coming out?

Can you see your request(FuelEN) and response(Meth) traces in your log graph?

Meth scaling set to 100?

Where's your Fuel Bias set to?

Is your FW compatible with PI(later than N55_ISO_15)? Is your 24K22 chip updated?

Do you have the PIC turning on your pump through a 30A relay? How's it wired?
FuelEn and Meth data in logs are used for PI now. (FuelEn is the ongoing signal from JB4 to PI and Meth is the signal back from the PI to the JB4).
Meth scaling is set to 100.
Firmware is N55_ISO_17_5 I believe (latest). And yes the chip was updated to 24K22.
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blackhat75 blackhat75 is offline
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Default 04-08-2019, 12:24 PM

Well that about exhaust's my ideas. As far as answering your original question; whether meth safety:3 and meth trigger:1 are correct, I don't think those apply to PI but since your FSB is still hooked up, maybe?? If they do, then trigger:1 would have meth fire on all/any map and safety:3 should work for your FSB.
There's SOOOO many variables with these systems and yours is even trickier with both meth systems working in tandem. Do you have a solenoid connected on your CM3 line? Can you verify it's functioning? Maybe the pump is priming but the JB4 system is seeing air in the lines and opening the solenoid. You could verify this condition by checking a log under IAT. See if the temp comes down when you meth signal comes on.
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serenvox serenvox is offline
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Default 04-11-2019, 05:58 PM

Does anyone have the link for the N55 Fuel It Port injections maps fot the AIC6 controller, specifically the E85 map? I couldnt find them on the Fuel-It website..
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Default Purple RPM Wire - 04-15-2019, 04:00 PM

What do I connect the Purple RPM wire to? I have older F-series PWG JB4 harness and have the Brown/Green Canbus wires hardwired to the back of my OBDII Port. I do not have an OBDII 4 pin connector.

Also, for initial setup all I have to do is set fuel bias to 50 across the board and meth scaling to 99?
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2012 F10 535i 6MT:
Pure Stage 2 Turbo, GFB DV+, MHD JB4 BEF, Phoenix Racing PI Intake Manifold with 550cc injectors & BMS Controller, Walbro 450 LPFP, VRSF D*, CP, G-Plus FMIC, M5 Mufflers, 550i Clutch, E85 Blend (E40)
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