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Default 08-27-2018, 09:33 AM

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Originally Posted by narstune
My suggestion would be to be more careful with typos, especially when people are paying you good money. That's one easy way for your customers to question your knowledge and abilities.

Let's take Terry's professionalism as an example since you essentially use his BEFs as a baseline for your custom maps. He is much busier with business operations than a good majority of e-tuners out there, but when was the last time you seen him make a simple technical typo when responding to thousands of his customers?

Also, I did get what I want with another OTS tune by running a 10.953@127.13mph with 70% humidity. I believe the best run I was able to do with your BEFs was around 11.9 secs or higher all while limping to the finish line with just about every pass attempt. Having spent 2-3 months with your tune really made me feel like there was something wrong with my car, and was leaning towards replacing the coilpacks and injectors...

You don't have to take my word for it, but you're actually wrong about the ZCP vs non-ZCP differences, as well as, N54/N55 vs S55 tuning differences. However, I'll let you figure that part out on your own since you're the professional tuner (I'm not). Although, this probably explains why you couldn't figure out how the OEM burbles and start-up roar disappeared as soon as I flashed over to your BEFs. From what I recall, your resolution course was to point the finger at MHD settings and copying the BMS BEF values without success.

For the last time, I'll be writing a full review (have way too much info) of my tuning experience when I have the time.
Nars, all this for a typo, really ?

many wrong things here, main one is when you say I'm using Terry's bef as a baseline.
and I've never said S55 tuning was the same than N54, I've said S55 ZCP and non ZCP tuning is the same.

glad you found what you were looking for with Terry BEF, as I've never got really good feedback from you with my tunes, for example, I sent you the last tune with ZCP exhaust mods back to stock, but you never told me anything about it.

Many other people running S55 ZCP or non ZCP are using my tune, flawlessly, and with good results.
But we can't obviously satisfy every people.

hope the best for you


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Default 08-27-2018, 09:33 AM

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Originally Posted by jonsabia
what OTS where you able to run this with ? if you dont mind sharing your data and info ?
Not at all, bro. Here you go: https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...&postcount=104


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Default 08-27-2018, 09:48 AM

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Originally Posted by trebila
Nars, all this for a typo, really ?

many wrong things here, main one is when you say I'm using Terry's bef as a baseline.
and I've never said S55 tuning was the same than N54, I've said S55 ZCP and non ZCP tuning is the same.

glad you found what you were looking for with Terry BEF, as I've never got really good feedback from you with my tunes, for example, I sent you the last tune with ZCP exhaust mods back to stock, but you never told me anything about it.

Many other people running S55 ZCP or non ZCP are using my tune, flawlessly, and with good results.
But we can't obviously satisfy every people.

hope the best for you
David, this isn't all about a typo. Part of it is constructive criticism that people need to hear from time to time.

Did you forget that my car randomly stalled while merging on to a busy highway due to you not knowing the effects of increasing the fuel scalars on the S55? Fortunately, I didn't have my 2-year old daughter with me in the car, otherwise, you would've put us in an extremely dangerous situation... I think most people would've trashed your tune on the forums by then, but I gave you a chance to redeem yourself after taking a month off. Of course, this was after you didn't even apologize for the incident, and refused to offer a partial or full refund.

I didn't give you any feedback after the 6th revision, because everything was still the same with OEM burbles and start-up roar not working. The car would still go into limp mode after a heavy load, so I had just about enough of it. I think all you were doing was make the AFR target run extremely lean, which I wasn't too please with either.

At the end of the day, you're one hell of an N54/N55 tuner, but the S55 is a completely different animal. Just do a google search on how the DME behaves differently on the S55... Perhaps someday you'll master this platform, but I won't be volunteering my car for further experiments.


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Default 08-28-2018, 12:39 AM

constructive criticism is always good, of course.

but what I don't understand from you is that you criticize my tune with slower 1/4 miles times than with OTS ones, whereas you specified when we started working on your tune that you were not looking for performance anymore, but for a 100% E85 tune, so automatically lower boost than with E60-E65 you were previously using, not fair.

Anyway, you experienced a misfire on the highway with one of the first revision, my bad, and since this, the confidence between us wasn't there anymore.

I never refund because a customer get a misfire, this is not a big deal, but you feared because it was on the highway.

this never happened anymore after, but you were not confident anymore, and not really volunteer too, this is how I felt things.

Sorry if you didn't find what you were looking for with me.
but again many others S55 customers are completely satisfied with my work.


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Default 08-28-2018, 12:47 PM

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Originally Posted by trebila
constructive criticism is always good, of course.

but what I don't understand from you is that you criticize my tune with slower 1/4 miles times than with OTS ones, whereas you specified when we started working on your tune that you were not looking for performance anymore, but for a 100% E85 tune, so automatically lower boost than with E60-E65 you were previously using, not fair.

Anyway, you experienced a misfire on the highway with one of the first revision, my bad, and since this, the confidence between us wasn't there anymore.

I never refund because a customer get a misfire, this is not a big deal, but you feared because it was on the highway.

this never happened anymore after, but you were not confident anymore, and not really volunteer too, this is how I felt things.

Sorry if you didn't find what you were looking for with me.
but again many others S55 customers are completely satisfied with my work.
David, I'm not sure if I'd even consider what I've said as direct criticism of your custom tune against other properly working OTS tunes. I believe you mentioned earlier that you hope I find what I'm looking for with another tune or tuner, and I simply replied with what I was able to accomplish with not one OTS tune, but two: BMS and BM3.

Your tune was never 100% functional, so it's hard for me to compare it against other properly working tunes. If my goal was to simply make your tune look bad, then I would've said something like the average 1/4 mile time with your tune was 17-18 seconds (peak 20 seconds), because that was the amount of time it took for the car to limp to the finish line.

And you know I'm not making any of these up. These are facts based on actual experience with your tune.

As for the highway misfire, I hope you're not attempting to downplay the incident, because I was driving normal in Efficient mode at about 50-60mph when the car decided to randomly shutdown on the highway. I don't believe it was a simple misfire, but rather the car entered a critical failsafe condition, because the engine wouldn't even start or hold idle afterwards.

You did not only put me in a really dangerous situation, but also kept me stranded on the side of the highway for about an hour, and I was on my way home from picking up dinner for my family on an early Sunday evening. I had to call BMW Roadside Assistance to explore my towing options, but ultimately, I was able to flash back to the BMS E85 BEF to get me home safely.

This is when I sent a calm e-mail explaining what had just happened, and politely requested for either a partial or full refund, to which you quickly said NO! I'm not sure what your refund policy is, but my guess is you'd only consider a refund when the engine blows up, or if the car somehow gets into an accident. And no, I did not lose any confidence whatsoever, because as promised, I resumed with your tuning experiments after taking a month off with 3 additional revisions.

When I first inquired about your services, I recall explicitly asking if you could improve upon Terry's E85 BEF, to which you said yes. From there, I shared all my previous data logs, dyno sheet, and 1/4 time slip. What I don't recall is asking for an E70 or E60 tune when my e-mail was about an E85 tune.

I'm not sure what your awareness level is like with competing and more reputable S55 tuners, but there are a handful of S55s running 580whp to 600+whp on a full E85 tune with the factory turbos and stock fuel system. I also recall you saying that there's not much you can do on full E85, and that I would need to go the PI route to achieve higher power levels.

Anyway, I hope it's clear for everyone reading this that your tuning abilities on the S55 is nowhere near the level of your tuning abilities with the N54/N55. You keep saying that you have plenty of other S55 customers, when there's really only two of us here on this forum.

Despite my nightmare experience with your tune, I wish nothing but the best for you and future S55 customers. I hope you get better at tuning the S55, so they don't have to go through the same issues that I went through.


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Default 08-28-2018, 03:33 PM

Just catching up on the thread. None of us are infallible. Mistakes happen, clearly David programmed too close to a torque limiter that got you stuck for a couple hours. Hopefully, lesson learned on his end. Given the situation I think a refund and apology would be appropriate.

Anyway, glad to hear you got the car in to the 10s finally! Too bad a JB4 wasn't involved, but we're always working on new S55 features and functions, maybe we'll lure you back one day. Would be really easy to set it up to just run your in dash gauges, flag control, and wireless logging, without having the JB4 do any tuning if that was what you needed short term.

The exhaust burbles should be fully active as an MHD flash time option now so its easy to toggle between different options with our OTS BEF.


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It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 08-28-2018, 11:05 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Just catching up on the thread. None of us are infallible. Mistakes happen, clearly David programmed too close to a torque limiter that got you stuck for a couple hours. Hopefully, lesson learned on his end. Given the situation I think a refund and apology would be appropriate.

Anyway, glad to hear you got the car in to the 10s finally! Too bad a JB4 wasn't involved, but we're always working on new S55 features and functions, maybe we'll lure you back one day. Would be really easy to set it up to just run your in dash gauges, flag control, and wireless logging, without having the JB4 do any tuning if that was what you needed short term.

The exhaust burbles should be fully active as an MHD flash time option now so its easy to toggle between different options with our OTS BEF.
I 100% agree, Terry. No one is perfect, aside from having to deal with frequent disorganized typo/confusion, which is why I usually learn towards the understanding and forgiving side of things to give people the benefit of the doubt.

I have to admit, the whole no refund and no apology approach caught me by surprise, but I know everyone is just trying to put food on the table for their families, so I wasn't going to sweat $290. I would rather cut my losses sooner rather than deal with a higher repair bill later on.

Having had the opportunity to work with you on testing the E85 BEF, along with reading a lot of the JB4/S55 information that you and Mike@N54tuning have shared with the BMW community, it made it easy for me to spot the inaccuracies and inconsistencies with my tuning experience with David. I'm not saying he doesn't know what he's doing, but the S55 and S55 JB4 clearly aren't his specialty at present time.

I really wish I had achieved my quest for a 10-second pass with the JB4, but obviously, things were derailed quite a bit when I thought I could do better than the E85 BEF. I've mentioned the same thing on BP, and I'll say it again here. Knowing what I know now, I'm confident that I'll be able to reproduce the same results with JB4 and E85 BEF that I was able to achieve with BM3.

I sure do miss the JB4's logging functionality, and the ability to switch maps on the fly, so maybe I'll get a chance to put it back on the car one of these days... if not, then at the very least, I think I'll be able to guide its future owner on how to reach optimal power output sooner rather than by trial and error.


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Default 08-29-2018, 05:46 AM

Ok Nars
Even if I consider you never really played the game ( I built the tune, I always offered my help to fix issue, whereas you asked immediately for a refund), send me your paypal address.
Iíll refund you.


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Default 08-29-2018, 10:58 AM

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Originally Posted by trebila
Ok Nars
Even if I consider you never really played the game ( I built the tune, I always offered my help to fix issue, whereas you asked immediately for a refund), send me your paypal address.
Iíll refund you.
I didn't know we were playing a game. I'll leave this link here for anyone interested in going through the logs I've collected along with the DME codes history.

https://opensource.egnyte.com/fl/nTlHC8uOD8

* 08/01/18 has the back to back comparison against the BMS E85 BEF.

Feel free to keep the money or donate it to charity of your choice. I don't want you to feel pressured to do something you originally didn't want to do just because the information is public now. You should've thought about your decision then from a business reputation standpoint.


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Default 08-31-2018, 11:11 AM

Nars, do you happen to have a log of the run you making 580 whp and such? i ask because i'm trying to optimize and make sure i'm running the best i possibly could but the logs you posted here dont look close to what i'm at in terms of power and safety. id be happy to post my log for you if you would like but just curious cause im all for us all getting the best we possibly could out of the s55.


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Default 08-31-2018, 11:40 AM

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Originally Posted by jonsabia
Nars, do you happen to have a log of the run you making 580 whp and such? i ask because i'm trying to optimize and make sure i'm running the best i possibly could but the logs you posted here dont look close to what i'm at in terms of power and safety. id be happy to post my log for you if you would like but just curious cause im all for us all getting the best we possibly could out of the s55.
Jon, I don't have any logs of the BM3 OTS Race map due to some technical issues with BM3's datalogging feature. I don't believe I was even at 580whp with that tune. Maybe more like 540-550whp at 22psi peak boost.

However, Terry's latest E85 revision is concrete proof that the F80/F82 S55's are capable of supporting 580-600whp on factory turbos and stock fuel system. 580whp with OEM d_o_w_n_p_i_p_e_s is probably the highest dyno output I've ever seen published.

With your setup, you should easily be at 600whp with the right tune/tuner.


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Default 08-31-2018, 11:43 AM

Yes on straight E85 we've found leaning it out and adding timing, does give more power potential than we previously thought possible stock turbo.

Tempted to throw dpipes on the car just to see if they make any difference at this power level. Just hate the resulting odor.

The new found power also revealed we needed a rework of the boost by gear functions. Which I'm hard at work on now, should have revised JB4 firmware ready to test for that Monday as well.


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It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 08-31-2018, 12:06 PM

ah got ya. here is a log i just recently took with my current tuning done by david and i have to say it feels great and i have walked away from every bm3 or other tuned f8x i have come accross by busses lol. i havent been to the track or dyno since my last one i posted on here but since then i added meth and did a retune so im sure im right around there maybe touching 600. but tell me what you think of this log.
Attached Files
File Type: csv 2018-08-11 13_30_17.csv (17.8 KB, 79 views)


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Default 08-31-2018, 12:18 PM

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Originally Posted by jonsabia
ah got ya. here is a log i just recently took with my current tuning done by david and i have to say it feels great and i have walked away from every bm3 or other tuned f8x i have come accross by busses lol. i havent been to the track or dyno since my last one i posted on here but since then i added meth and did a retune so im sure im right around there maybe touching 600. but tell me what you think of this log.
Log looks good. I can definitely see you walking on other OTS tunes without a doubt. The fair battle would be against other custom full E85 tunes, but I'm sure you already know this.

Was this on full e85, though? Because that's really where the true tuning skills shine on this platform.


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Default 08-31-2018, 12:19 PM

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Originally Posted by jonsabia
ah got ya. here is a log i just recently took with my current tuning done by david and i have to say it feels great and i have walked away from every bm3 or other tuned f8x i have come accross by busses lol. i havent been to the track or dyno since my last one i posted on here but since then i added meth and did a retune so im sure im right around there maybe touching 600. but tell me what you think of this log.
Looks clean to me. What fuel are you using? To hit the 600whp would take a leaner AFR and more timing, IMHO, but you are not that far off. Maybe 560-570whp, if I had to guess.


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Default 08-31-2018, 12:43 PM

thanks guys, Nars this was on E70. i want to get to full E85 but havent been able to get any further with david on it. he said im maxed out here if i recall.

Terry, thats very interesting, i thought my air to fuel was close to the line? but thats awesome if i can get it a lil leaner. and how much more timing do you think i can run?
also are these changes you speak of already existing in your E85 BEF? and do you thing i would make more power with yours ?


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Default 08-31-2018, 12:51 PM

It's all relative... And there is a benefit to a more conservative "safer" approach, that maybe leaves you 30hp short, but potentially less likely to blow a piston. We'll have to see how reliable the aggressive "600whp stock turbo" style maps pan out to be over time.


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It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 08-31-2018, 01:31 PM

Got ya. So does your current E85 BEF allow for full E85, leaner than where I’m at currently, and more timing then what I’m currently at ?


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Default 08-31-2018, 02:02 PM

We posted a log with the dyno, check it out!


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Default 08-31-2018, 04:19 PM

Oh ok where is it ?


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Default 08-31-2018, 06:20 PM

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Oh ok where is it ?
http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54786


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It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 08-31-2018, 09:05 PM

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Originally Posted by trebila
Now that the S55 M2, M3 and M4 can be flashed with MHD flasher, I'd be glad to work on them, as always, stacked with JB4.
I've been working on N54 and N55 E series custom tuning for years now ( http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33175 ), recently on N55 F series ( http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51312 ), now that MHD released the N55/S55 F series flasher.

N55 E series share most of the maps with N55 F series and S55.

If you're interested to get custom tuned (flash + JB4 settings) your M S55 F serie, send me a PM
hello trebila ... I am matias from Argentina, I have a 335i n54 saloon, jb4, ic 7in, methanol, exhaust *****, I have new injectors, new coils and spark plugs, stock turbos, 33 thousand real km and everything is perfect in the car but I already test with flash race, flash e85 and flash payments mhd stage 2+ for 95 and 98 octane but my avg always goes up and my progress has corrections and it is low, I do not know what else to try, you have some special map that Can you serve?[/QUOTE]
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Default 09-01-2018, 02:24 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucas
hello trebila ... I am matias from Argentina, I have a 335i n54 saloon, jb4, ic 7in, methanol, exhaust *****, I have new injectors, new coils and spark plugs, stock turbos, 33 thousand real km and everything is perfect in the car but I already test with flash race, flash e85 and flash payments mhd stage 2+ for 95 and 98 octane but my avg always goes up and my progress has corrections and it is low, I do not know what else to try, you have some special map that Can you serve?
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FBO N54 AT 135i 'vert with JB4 and Trebila Performance custom flash
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Default 09-01-2018, 02:32 AM

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Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
WOW, AFRs 15:1 from the beginning to 5000-5500 rpm, right when boost is peaking at 27-28 psi, I'd not target so aggressive AFRs for my customers, even on straight E85.

If you have to target so lean AFRs to use straight E85 and gain 20whp, I prefer to leave them on the table.

Terry is providing free BEF, it's the responsability of the S55 owner to use it.
I'd not feel comfortable to provide so lean tunes on S55 for my customers.

richer AFRs induce a much higher fuel demand for HPFP, which is the limiting factor, this is why on straight E85, I advice my customers to lower boost targets.


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Last edited by trebila; 09-01-2018 at 05:00 AM..
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Default 09-01-2018, 02:41 AM

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Originally Posted by jonsabia
ah got ya. here is a log i just recently took with my current tuning done by david and i have to say it feels great and i have walked away from every bm3 or other tuned f8x i have come accross by busses lol. i havent been to the track or dyno since my last one i posted on here but since then i added meth and did a retune so im sure im right around there maybe touching 600. but tell me what you think of this log.
Jon



this log is great, look how healthy is the HPFP for E70.
you already kill all others tuned S55 you meet, with my tuning work.

If I were you, I'd not risk to pop your engine by using E85 without any supplemental fueling kit, for 20 or 30whp.


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