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Terry @ BMS's Avatar
Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
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Default Just another 700whp M5... - 07-17-2015, 12:20 PM

Hey guys,

Met up with "allmotor_2000" today a SpecialtyZ for a little dyno tuning session. He's running a 2014 M5 DCT with the following:

JB4 BETA + BCM
ESS DME Flash Map
ESS prototype turbos
SSP upgraded DCT clutch packs
BMS meth running boost juice (49%)
High flow catted *** & exhaust
MSR intake & inlet tubes to mount the meth
~94 octane (tank of 91 + 4 gallons of race gas mixed in)

Overall pretty happy with the results and consistency of the setup. Since they are new evaluation turbos we didn't want to push them too hard. So I kept boost around 28psi peak. Looking at the logs I think we could push them up to around 30psi and make a little more power. But I understand a revision is coming down the pipe so we'll wait for that.

[salespitch]
The JB4 worked perfectly in allowing us to tune around the flash limitations on duty cycle and its 22psi boost cap. The BCM which allows it to directly drive the wastegates did most of the heavy lifting on boost targeting and the integrated methanol control improves safety and allows methanol to be map specific. As I understand it previously flash only tuning was a struggle at these higher boost levels. With the JB4 in the mix now it's easy. He keeps all the benefits of his flash map (speed limit removal, higher fuel trim ceiling, ign advance mapped 2 degrees lower, etc), and in addition he can now change maps on the fly from pump only, to meth, to meth+race gas. Also can monitor boost in dash, limit boost in 1st and 2nd gear for launching at the track, easily log all the pertinent parameters on a windows laptop, iPhone, or android device, and much more..
[/salespitch]

Just for discussions sake I threw in a dyno comparison chart of this car vs. our stock+JB4+meth M5. Note there is no speed delimiter on ours so we can't pull over 6200rpm in 5th. And also a dyno comparison of PURE TURBO's M3 running a BETA version of our JB4_S55 large turbo tune.

Getting back to the test car I think the combination of the exhaust work and turbos shined most at lower RPM when compared to our stock M5. Hopefully the next turbo set opens up the top end! This thing at 750whp would be a total beast.
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It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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allmotor_2000 allmotor_2000 is offline
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Default 07-17-2015, 12:41 PM

Thanks Terry - great work!
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sA x sKy sA x sKy is offline
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Default 07-17-2015, 03:33 PM

Terry, if I were to get the AutoCouture flash for my M4, which I'm sure does all the things you listed that the ESS flash does, would you be able to help integrate the JB4 like you did for this M5?
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andym3100k andym3100k is offline
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Default 07-17-2015, 04:59 PM

Omg 22psi rise to 27psi ������ I know this day will come & everything is coming so well. Is time to hook back my bigger snails again.....


2014/2009 M4/335 COUPE
FULL CF Add On All around, Gloss/Matt Custom Wrap
JB4 Stack On BM3/MHD ECU tune, Upgraded S2 Turbo
Custom Cold Air, Dual nozzle charge pipe
SSP 900 Clutch kit, Custom Spoiler
AndyTuning Custom Map 6
SS DP n FULL Custom Exhaust
Custom BC forge 18/17 set up
Brembo Gt 380mm F&R/ 355mm F&R

Last edited by andym3100k; 07-17-2015 at 05:36 PM..
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Terry @ BMS's Avatar
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Default 07-17-2015, 05:26 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sA x sKy
Terry, if I were to get the AutoCouture flash for my M4, which I'm sure does all the things you listed that the ESS flash does, would you be able to help integrate the JB4 like you did for this M5?
Sure! The JB4 is compatible with the OEM or any flash map.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 07-17-2015, 05:37 PM

Video of a run:



Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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TTM5 TTM5 is offline
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Default 07-17-2015, 08:53 PM

Terry, can My M5 run 22psi on this new jb4 safely with no slipping on stock dct and stock turbos? 93 octane
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Terry @ BMS's Avatar
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Default 07-17-2015, 09:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by TTM5
Terry, can My M5 run 22psi on this new jb4 safely with no slipping on stock dct and stock turbos? 93 octane
The short answer is I don't know. You may or may not be able to run 22psi on 93 octane. I'd guess no. But until we see logs under various conditions on 93, that is just a guess. And you may or may not be able to run 22psi (on any fuel) without trans slippage. It depends on the condition of the trans, how aggressively it's raced, etc. We'll have to see on that.

Wish I had more answers for you but that's why it's BETA.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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TTM5 TTM5 is offline
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Default 07-18-2015, 06:44 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
The short answer is I don't know. You may or may not be able to run 22psi on 93 octane. I'd guess no. But until we see logs under various conditions on 93, that is just a guess. And you may or may not be able to run 22psi (on any fuel) without trans slippage. It depends on the condition of the trans, how aggressively it's raced, etc. We'll have to see on that.

Wish I had more answers for you but that's why it's BETA.
I imagine most will not upgrade turbos or DCT, it's great your investigating potential with Turbos and without.... Awaiting results, not impressed with the turbo upgrades, they seem to die at high rpms making then somewhat inferior to stock unless there is some restriction somewhere....
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Default 07-18-2015, 04:56 PM

Nice numbers, but didn't you get higher numbers in your otherwise stock car with even lower boost?

If it did 8xx, that would be something! But adding bigger snails and almost twice the boost for 200whp (nice curve though) I mean, you have Audi RS7's with those upgrades passing 900whp..
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Default 07-18-2015, 06:03 PM

There is a comparison dyno in the first post.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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allmotor_2000 allmotor_2000 is offline
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Default 07-18-2015, 06:31 PM

These turbos arnt making much power top end as they were early protos. Next version
should improve significantly. These, however, make a lot more power in the 3K-5.5K range and keeps the power band pretty. Area under the curve is what matters on the track. Making a peaky 775whp isn't going to make the car much quicker. We need to find the right blend between a broad, usable power curve and high top end.

Also, stock is around 18-19psi so it's around 7-8psi over hitting leak around ~27 briefly. Car also runs 3 degrees lower timing than stock to keep things safer. Should be easy to advance timing and go for a 750whp dyno but prefer to get it another way.
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TTM5 TTM5 is offline
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Default 07-18-2015, 09:12 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by lfelunden
Nice numbers, but didn't you get higher numbers in your otherwise stock car with even lower boost?

If it did 8xx, that would be something! But adding bigger snails and almost twice the boost for 200whp (nice curve though) I mean, you have Audi RS7's with those upgrades passing 900whp..
We have a bigger motor that makes power higher in the rpm range than the rs7, if we exploit the 6000-7500 range and install turbos that make power there we will make considerably more power than the rs7 motor....
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allmotor_2000 allmotor_2000 is offline
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Default 07-18-2015, 09:25 PM

Unfortunately we are pioneering on this platform so some things work and others don't. Time to try the next thing! It's not like mature platforms where everything has been tried and it's just slapping on something already vetted out.

Agree - need better turbos! 800whp will happen... just matter of time
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Newguy123 Newguy123 is offline
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Default 07-18-2015, 09:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by allmotor_2000
Unfortunately we are pioneering on this platform so some things work and others don't. Time to try the next thing! It's not like mature platforms where everything has been tried and it's just slapping on something already vetted out.

Agree - need better turbos! 800whp will happen... just matter of time
Nice results!

Yup it will PURE should be releasing some sweet turbos soon too


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#PURETURBOS
#FUELIT
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TTM5 TTM5 is offline
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Default 07-19-2015, 05:32 PM

Why aren't we exploiting the stock turbos. Terry said there was plenty left in them....
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allmotor_2000 allmotor_2000 is offline
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Default 07-19-2015, 05:42 PM

Running outside the efficiency range will result in higher IAT, EGT etc - at 700 whp I think they are close to the limit. For a given boost/flow a more efficient turbo will yield more reliable power.
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TTM5 TTM5 is offline
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Default 07-19-2015, 07:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by allmotor_2000
Running outside the efficiency range will result in higher IAT, EGT etc - at 700 whp I think they are close to the limit. For a given boost/flow a more efficient turbo will yield more reliable power.
i don't think changing impellers will do that. I believe you would need to change the a/r especially on the exhaust side to increase efficiency and move the power to the upper range....

How many psi are the stock turbos good for before they do more harm than good?
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allmotor_2000 allmotor_2000 is offline
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Default 07-19-2015, 10:12 PM

Agree - turbine sizing and flow is very critical. There are some optimizations on the Vanos I am trying, let's see what that does as well.

I don't know what psi stock turbos can do - don't have those anymore!
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allmotor_2000 allmotor_2000 is offline
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Default 07-23-2015, 11:38 AM

Latest dyno...

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Terry @ BMS's Avatar
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Default 07-25-2015, 12:13 PM

Looking forward to the larger turbos!


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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