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TorchikRS TorchikRS is offline
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Default 12-25-2017, 06:30 PM

In Washington the highest octane is 92. Where would that range between 93 and 91?
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Terry @ BMS's Avatar
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Default 12-25-2017, 06:32 PM

Since you're an RS I'd probably stay on map1 on 92, at least without logging.


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mattds mattds is offline
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Default 12-25-2017, 10:13 PM

Hi Terry, what specifically should i look for in the logs when trying out a map (or making a map) with higher boost?

Last edited by mattds; 12-26-2017 at 11:42 AM..
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ralphie1313 ralphie1313 is offline
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Default 12-26-2017, 02:17 AM

its funny cause one of the worst things we do is with the remote start. In cold weather is letting a car idle to warm up, its actually recommended to let it start for 1 min then start driving the car no matter what temp, it don't say to nail it but drive normal. There is a whole scientific reason behind it u can look up why it ruins the engine. I mean I lease so I could not care less I want the leather warm for my fat ass at all cost!! but this is the reason we say how come the big guys like Mercedes and bmw and 100k cars don't have remote start because they know what it does to the motor so they don't offer it. sorry I forget the whole reason but something to do with not letting the oil heat up faster and the oil not getting up to the cylinder walls fast enuff when u let it just idle and warm up and the raw fuel because its not like a 2 stroke that has oil in the fuel, the raw fuel can actually strip away layers in the cylinder walls...
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TorchikRS TorchikRS is offline
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Default 12-26-2017, 02:49 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Since you're an RS I'd probably stay on map1 on 92, at least without logging.
Alright I shall get logs in when the time will come
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Default 12-26-2017, 12:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattds
Hi Terry, what specifically should i look for in the logs when trying out a map (or making a map) with higher boost?
Main thing is to ensure timing advance is slowly ramping up with RPM, not dropping down in 3-4 degree steps continually as RPM increases.


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It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Awgd8 Awgd8 is offline
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Default 12-26-2017, 02:05 PM

I finally decided to go with JB4 on my Luxe 3.0t. I just sold my ECUTEK PROECU cable in less than 2 hours.
Terry, is there a way to expedite the shipping?How much? I'm off until Jan 2 and hopefully I'll have enough time to install it before heading back to work. LOL!
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Default 12-26-2017, 02:07 PM

Glad to hear! We do offer express shipping at checkout, but its only marginally faster than normal USPS priority shipping. The guys are hard at work at the warehouse this week shipping orders so with luck you'll have it in time.


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Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, S55s, N63s, and S63s!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Awgd8 Awgd8 is offline
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Default 12-26-2017, 02:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Glad to hear! We do offer express shipping at checkout, but its only marginally faster than normal USPS priority shipping. The guys are hard at work at the warehouse this week shipping orders so with luck you'll have it in time.
I just went with regular shipping. Thank you so much!
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mattds mattds is offline
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Default 12-26-2017, 06:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Main thing is to ensure timing advance is slowly ramping up with RPM, not dropping down in 3-4 degree steps continually as RPM increases.
Hey Terry, this is my first few days with the JB4 on a 2017 Q60 Red Sport and it's great. I think the logging is WELL worth the increase in price.

My general question is: could you post a basic tuning guide so we have to stop pestering you with logs?

and some more specific questions, logging on map 1 JB4
1) I notice timing does increase with higher RPM's BUT the boost levels drop - is this ok? (i seem to think it is)
2) is it normal to have timing pulled back during gear shifts (i also think this is normal)
3) can you give us a bit of info on fuel trims and afr? (i see as low as 10.8)
4) under target at some rpm's i see 4.5...shouldn't this be 3? (or did i adjust map 1 thinking it was map 6...
5) what is the sampling rate?
6) can we record a 0-60 with the jb4?

thanks!
m
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Default 12-26-2017, 06:52 PM

Tuning winds up being highly subjective, but this thread has some of the basics on reading logs. Not all of it applies to this platform but its enough to get you started: http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21269

Boost is sampled at 40hz, CANbus data around 10hz.

On the 0-60 JB4 Mobile can record it using the CANbus road speed output, but it's going to be that accurate. For consistent performance measuring you'll want a highs speed GPS device like dragy: http://www.burgertuning.com/gps_performance_meter.html


Burger Motorsports
Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, S55s, N63s, and S63s!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Awgd8 Awgd8 is offline
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Default 12-27-2017, 06:40 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattds
Hey Terry, this is my first few days with the JB4 on a 2017 Q60 Red Sport and it's great. I think the logging is WELL worth the increase in price.

My general question is: could you post a basic tuning guide so we have to stop pestering you with logs?

and some more specific questions, logging on map 1 JB4
1) I notice timing does increase with higher RPM's BUT the boost levels drop - is this ok? (i seem to think it is)
2) is it normal to have timing pulled back during gear shifts (i also think this is normal)
3) can you give us a bit of info on fuel trims and afr? (i see as low as 10.8)
4) under target at some rpm's i see 4.5...shouldn't this be 3? (or did i adjust map 1 thinking it was map 6...
5) what is the sampling rate?
6) can we record a 0-60 with the jb4?

thanks!
m
True! Having a datalogging capability on JB4 is excellent!
We have to remember, there’s no real tuning involve in a piggyback system.
Unlike a flash tune, the stock fuel target table and timing targets are modified to a higher parameters. Whereas, the JB4 is still on stock AFR and timing table parameters. With datalogging on the JB4, we can monitor if we are going at the edge of these parameters.

I’m also new to turbo engine and I’m used to NA engine tuning.
Modern turbo engines are now reaching higher compression (10.0:1 ratio) which is really good since you have more power even if your not boosting, but you can’t
increase the boost to a very high PSI level. Lower Compression turbo engine like 8.0:1 ratio is sluggish if not boosting, but you can add more boost out of it.

For data logging

1) AFR

15.0:1 = Lean
14.7:1 = Stoichiometric
13.0:1 = Rich

At full load or WOT (wide open throttle), you want to hit that AFR at least around
11.5-12.1:0 (lower the better to extinguish the high cylinder temp with fuel, but not too low were you can damage your catalytic converter)

Anything higher than 14.7:1 means more air vs fuel is burning. But It’s normal to go high on part throttle.( Cruising ) or when you are releasing the gas pedal.
Remember, more air mixture vs fuel = more heat! You can’t have more air mixture when your flooring the gas pedal or else, the engine has to protect itself. ECU will retard the timing. When you look at AFR data logs, it takes a litte time to hit a a desired rich fuel mixture when you do WOT. When data logging
floor the gas pedal for at least more than 5 secs. ( That’s why dyno is ideal for tuning- safer)

All you care about here is you don’t go 13.0:1 or higher on wide open throttle.
13:0:1 is ok for NA engine, but turbo engine is hotter due to turbo compresses the air. (More heat is being produce)



2) Timing

You can’t really do anything here since the stock ECu timing map has it’s own target table to reach, but remember , less heat in the engine means the timing can go higher. How do you make the engine cooler if you are hitting the max stock timing table? Ethanol! E85 mixture. E85 fuel burns cooler and has a higher octane rating. (105-108 ) Higher burning ceiling which means engine timing can be increased more. Remember, our engine have knock sensor, if it hears a knock it retards timing. (Heat exchanger benefits here too to lessen engine temp)

3) Boost
More boost = more power at certain turbo limit of it’s efficiency. You can have a safe Boost level with power without compromising the turbo life. You can increase the Boost higher for more power, but once you past the turbo efficiency limit, you start to build unneccessary heat in the long run.
***(Adding better heat exchanger or down pipe (relieving back pressure for the turbo to spin more freely) benefits here.

Remember excess heat is your enemy! Anyway you remove excess heat from these 3 parameters, you’ll build more power safely.

Hope this helps bit.

Last edited by Awgd8; 12-27-2017 at 06:47 AM..
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Default 12-27-2017, 07:00 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Awgd8
True! Having a datalogging capability on JB4 is excellent!
...
Remember excess heat is your enemy! Anyway you remove excess heat from these 3 parameters, you’ll build more power safely.

Hope this helps bit.
Very nice primer

Last edited by jrobohm; 12-27-2017 at 07:42 AM.. Reason: Length of quote edit
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mattds mattds is offline
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Default 12-27-2017, 11:12 AM

[QUOTE=Awgd8;572459]True! Having a datalogging capability on JB4 is excellent!
We have to remember, thereís no real tuning involve in a piggyback system.
Unlike a flash tune, the stock fuel target table and timing targets are modified to a higher parameters. Whereas, the JB4 is still on stock AFR and timing table parameters. With datalogging on the JB4, we can monitor if we are going at the edge of these parameters.


Awgd8 - wow thank you! that is perfect. I knew some but that really filled in the gaps for me!

For my particular case (red sport with 3" ******** and full exhaust to stock muffler) i seem to be ok at 3-4psi over. My timing builds up slowly, i'm running a little rich and through another app i can monitor my exhaust temps and they seem ok I have one GESI *** after each turbo (i can only compare them to some NA cars that i have...but i'm generally below 900F and more like 600F unless i'm hammering it)

Terry - this is an odd question - but can i 'lower' the boost on map 6 to below stock...my wife doesn't like driving the car...sigh
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Default 12-27-2017, 12:04 PM

[QUOTE=mattds;572477]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Awgd8

Terry - this is an odd question - but can i 'lower' the boost on map 6 to below stock...my wife doesn't like driving the car...sigh
This does bring back up the "Valet Mode" Map idea...
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Default 12-27-2017, 01:16 PM

Right now stock boost is the lowest possible setting. But if there is demand we could adjust that.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, S55s, N63s, and S63s!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 12-27-2017, 02:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Right now stock boost is the lowest possible setting. But if there is demand we could adjust that.
+1 on the demand, also Terry has there been any demands on map switching through the car itself without the phone/computer?? Thatís one of my most wanted features


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Default 12-27-2017, 03:03 PM

Is it possible to get a 2 step added in? A lot of cars these days come stock with this. It would be nice to be able to incorporate this into the jb4 option.
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mattds mattds is offline
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Default 12-27-2017, 03:05 PM

I would love it if we could program negative boost values and have more than 1 programmable maps.

I'd also like it if we could log speeds.

Terry for other platforms (BMW) I've seen that you guys have launch control and anti-lag among other things. Are those features with a piggy back programmer or a flash tune? Obv we would all LOVE some sort of launch control.
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Default 12-27-2017, 08:11 PM

I am in the market to buying a silver or red sport. I can save about 6-7K by getting a silver sport.

My plans for the car are FBO w/ E85 tune. Am I better off with the RS?
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Default 12-27-2017, 08:49 PM

The 300hp variant is a much better bang for the buck! Go for it!


Burger Motorsports
Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, S55s, N63s, and S63s!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 12-27-2017, 08:50 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattds
I would love it if we could program negative boost values and have more than 1 programmable maps.

I'd also like it if we could log speeds.

Terry for other platforms (BMW) I've seen that you guys have launch control and anti-lag among other things. Are those features with a piggy back programmer or a flash tune? Obv we would all LOVE some sort of launch control.
The longer we work with platforms the more we're able to do for them. We're just getting our feet wet with this one.

Speed logging should be enabled though, I log it on mine.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, S55s, N63s, and S63s!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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mattds mattds is offline
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Default 12-27-2017, 11:10 PM

Hey Terry, I've attached a log of mine. Pls let me where where the speed is.

Thanks!
Attached Files
File Type: csv 2017-10-22 00_12_28.csv (9.7 KB, 34 views)
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Default 12-28-2017, 04:26 AM

As of 6:25am EST it is 14 degrees Fahrenheit with a wind chill of 1 degrees. I can only imagine how my Q can run in this weather =)


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mattds mattds is offline
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Default 12-28-2017, 06:30 AM

Dude it's -14F PLUS wind-chill....

I'm sure this means I can crank the boost up right?
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