N54Tech.com - International Turbo Racing Discussion
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Default 05-24-2018, 07:11 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
There are several failure points in a setup like this. Main ones:

1) Pump doesn't turn on or fluid is empty. e.g. pump pressure.
2) Fuel injectors don't open at all or just one specific injector fails to open.

The FSB would help cover issue 1 but it can't detect the injectors not opening. The PI controller can detect injectors not opening but can't verify pump pressure.

Thinking it over I think the best and easiest solution is to ditch the FSB all together in these implementations. The PI controller is then feeding injector information in to the JB4, and we can use fuel trim checks of trims higher than expected and bank to bank trim variances, to quickly spot the same issues the FSB would be spotting.
How soon is all that though? As far as I understand these features of PI controller are not developed yet. Would any additional wiring be required, since we take the FSB out of the picture and we need something to trigger the pump? If you're suggesting new users should ditch the FSB, are there any renewed wiring instructions?
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Default 05-25-2018, 09:49 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by skirmozas
How soon is all that though? As far as I understand these features of PI controller are not developed yet. Would any additional wiring be required, since we take the FSB out of the picture and we need something to trigger the pump? If you're suggesting new users should ditch the FSB, are there any renewed wiring instructions?
If everything is working correctly on your setup I wouldn't touch it until we have full instructions on what to do with the next update.


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It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 05-25-2018, 02:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Payam @ BMS
If everything is working correctly on your setup I wouldn't touch it until we have full instructions on what to do with the next update.
Can't disagree with that point, don't fix something that is working perfectly fine. I guess you're developing and possibly already testing the solution and it would not be released to the public until you know the product is worthy to represent BMS brand.

On the other hand, I'm on the verge of installing the meth kit and the DPMI kit. It's all pretty new to me and I feel that this feature is something worth to wait for. Don't know for how long though. Some timeline would help people to plan around. I can't speak for everyone, but I'm very interested indeed

My car is getting new turbos and pretty much the whole forced induction system as well as a clutch and fueling updrades. DPMI kit is in the box with me, but there's just so much stuff to do. It seems I jumped a little high this time and I should let the DPMI stay in that box until I know the turbos are running smooth and the car feels good. I'd have too much troubleshooting to do if something went wrong, that's how people end up looking for solutions in this forum
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Default 05-27-2018, 03:20 AM

Just installing port meth 550cc injectors and bms port controller but want to use the fsb method.

Black connects to ground
Red connects to JB4 power on green connector
Yellow goes to the BMS data cable #9
White goes to JB4 DB25 harness spot #15 (where meth blue would normally go)
Purple goes in the JB4 small gray subconnector #21 as read from the female side
Orange wire is a +12v output for your second fuel pump OR WMI PUMP (if running meth port injection), it has a maximum output of around 2 amps so run it through a relay.

I have followed this.... but i still want to use the fsb, does the blue fsb cable need to be plugged instead of the white one from port controller.And where does the orange go from port controller if im still triggering the pump from fsb ?


N54 RHD FBO, Inlets, Bms Methanol Injection, Jb4,Trebila custom pump and meth, Rb Outlets to be fitted and bilstein b12s yet to be Fitted. Power
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Default Meth scaling with port injection & ISO 32.10 - 05-27-2018, 08:31 AM

Question;

I am using a METH port injection with the BMS controller. With the start of the new season, I have updated my JB4 interface and my JB4 firmware to G5_ISO_32_10.

I am monitoring the meth pump current via the FSB connected on pin 2 of the jb4 DB25 (instead of the PI injector current). In the release notes for the 32.10 firmware, it is mentioned to set the meth scaling to 99 if using port injection. I was set at 45 (since firmware 32.6) because of monitoring pump current.

Question I have, DO I HAVE to set it to 99 to keep PI working?(and change monitoring wire) or do I leave it to 45 to continue monitoring the meth pump? (which is my preference).

thanks


2010 E90 335XI 6AT with XPH stage 3 | JB4 G5 W/Trebila Tune | RB Next Gen | RB hot side INLETs | Fuel-IT stage 1 LPFP | ETS FMIC | MODDED VRSF CP | FORGE DV | BMS METH KIT CM10+CM5 & HYBRID PORT INJECTION | AR DESIGN cer. downP | BMS OCC | RB external PCV w/plugged HEAD | Best 1/4: 11.47@123mph
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Terry @ BMS's Avatar
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Default 05-27-2018, 08:52 AM

I'd suggest everyone use 99 whether the PI controller is attached to #15 or the FSB blue is attached to #15, just so we have a standard value for it for now.


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It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 05-27-2018, 09:02 AM

Ahh makes sense so i just leave the white from the port controller and use the blue fsb wire. So what about the orange power cable what does that connect to if im using the fsb or do i not need that ?


N54 RHD FBO, Inlets, Bms Methanol Injection, Jb4,Trebila custom pump and meth, Rb Outlets to be fitted and bilstein b12s yet to be Fitted. Power
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Default 05-27-2018, 09:02 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
I'd suggest everyone use 99 whether the PI controller is attached to #15 or the FSB blue is attached to #15, just so we have a standard value for it for now.
my bad, I am connected on pin 15.

If setting meth scaling to 99 while monitoring meth pump current via the FSB, won't we loose a lot of sensitivity? Especially since ISO 32.6 with higher resolution for the meth signal?

I am concerned that if I am starting to have less flow, it may go unnoticed until it reach a much lower flow, thus showing in the logs.


2010 E90 335XI 6AT with XPH stage 3 | JB4 G5 W/Trebila Tune | RB Next Gen | RB hot side INLETs | Fuel-IT stage 1 LPFP | ETS FMIC | MODDED VRSF CP | FORGE DV | BMS METH KIT CM10+CM5 & HYBRID PORT INJECTION | AR DESIGN cer. downP | BMS OCC | RB external PCV w/plugged HEAD | Best 1/4: 11.47@123mph
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Default 05-27-2018, 03:21 PM

Post logs in this thread and we'll evaluate. The idea here is to get all meth PI logs, discussion, analysis, etc, going in the thread so I can optimize the JB4 mapping.


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It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 05-27-2018, 03:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Post logs in this thread and we'll evaluate. The idea here is to get all meth PI logs, discussion, analysis, etc, going in the thread so I can optimize the JB4 mapping.

make sense to keep everything in this thread. I will post logs on my next trip to the drag strip with the meth scaling at 99.

But I expect the meth flow to be 100% unless the logic when meth scaling is set at 99 has changed but again, I do not see how would the jb4 would differentiate from a meth pump current value or injector current


2010 E90 335XI 6AT with XPH stage 3 | JB4 G5 W/Trebila Tune | RB Next Gen | RB hot side INLETs | Fuel-IT stage 1 LPFP | ETS FMIC | MODDED VRSF CP | FORGE DV | BMS METH KIT CM10+CM5 & HYBRID PORT INJECTION | AR DESIGN cer. downP | BMS OCC | RB external PCV w/plugged HEAD | Best 1/4: 11.47@123mph
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Default 05-27-2018, 03:31 PM

We want it to reflect 100 if it's getting a signal back indicating full flow.


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It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 05-27-2018, 03:34 PM

When I install the PI I eliminate the foggers of the charge pipe is it correct? the temperature of the IAT goes up now. Should leave some fogger in the charge pipe?

The controller has two yellow wires and one does not connect, what is it?
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Default 05-27-2018, 03:35 PM

Personally I wouldn't bother, since the IAT scaling can be adjusted in the BEF.


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It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 05-27-2018, 03:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
We want it to reflect 100 if it's getting a signal back indicating full flow.
I get it but as of version 32.9, I was using a meth scaling of 45 and for a full flow, I was getting a value of 100 in the logs. Now if I put 99, I understand that any loss of flow would not show up in the log unless low enough to match the equivalent scaling when I was at 45.

Maybe I am missing something....


2010 E90 335XI 6AT with XPH stage 3 | JB4 G5 W/Trebila Tune | RB Next Gen | RB hot side INLETs | Fuel-IT stage 1 LPFP | ETS FMIC | MODDED VRSF CP | FORGE DV | BMS METH KIT CM10+CM5 & HYBRID PORT INJECTION | AR DESIGN cer. downP | BMS OCC | RB external PCV w/plugged HEAD | Best 1/4: 11.47@123mph
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Default 05-27-2018, 04:06 PM

Load up the latest firmware as change were made, post a log, and we can evaluate it.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, S55s, N63s, and S63s!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 05-27-2018, 04:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Load up the latest firmware as change were made, post a log, and we can evaluate it.
ok, will do


2010 E90 335XI 6AT with XPH stage 3 | JB4 G5 W/Trebila Tune | RB Next Gen | RB hot side INLETs | Fuel-IT stage 1 LPFP | ETS FMIC | MODDED VRSF CP | FORGE DV | BMS METH KIT CM10+CM5 & HYBRID PORT INJECTION | AR DESIGN cer. downP | BMS OCC | RB external PCV w/plugged HEAD | Best 1/4: 11.47@123mph
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Ariano Ariano is offline
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Default PIM - 05-27-2018, 04:17 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Hey guys,

As more people are running port injection meth now, we need a dedicated thread with basic how-to directions, best practices, etc.

In addition I have some planned changes on the JB4 end for mapping on these kits so it will be useful to have everyone in the same place to evaluate logs.

I'll just enter a few notes here and then we'll modify the post as needed. In addition we could use some JB4 PI meth logs posted to evaluate and refine the safety systems and mapping.

N54:

We suggest using the BMS PI controller. The orange wire on the controller will go to an automotive relay to trigger the WMI pump. The JB4 #15 will get the PI controller white signal wire which will let the JB4 know the fuel injectors are running properly. Meth flow scaling should be set to 99.

If equipped with an FSB from a previous JB4 meth integration you'll remove it.

So when you say "port injection meth" are you meaning, meth as port injection/one meth nozzle in each intake runner totaling 6 or are you saying actual PI/6 individual fuel injectors with meth added?? I don't have actual PI but I am running my meth as PI, 6 individual CM3, one in each intake runner.

Last edited by Ariano; 05-27-2018 at 04:22 PM..
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Default 05-28-2018, 05:08 AM

The methanol pumps run at 200psi and if I want to use direct Meth PI, I have 750cc Bosch injectors that normally run at ~ 40-60psi. Does this create problems? Or I have to reduce the pressure of the methanol pump?

thanks
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Default 05-28-2018, 08:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariano
So when you say "port injection meth" are you meaning, meth as port injection/one meth nozzle in each intake runner totaling 6 or are you saying actual PI/6 individual fuel injectors with meth added?? I don't have actual PI but I am running my meth as PI, 6 individual CM3, one in each intake runner.
This is referring to traditional fuel injectors controlling meth in each port. We don't suggest running it your way with a traditional nozzle on each port as you can't map out fuel very precisely and you'd also need a check valve on each cylinder which adds cost, complication, and drops injection pressure.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, S55s, N63s, and S63s!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Ariano Ariano is offline
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Default 05-28-2018, 03:09 PM

Ok Terry,
So if I'm getting this right, it would be best if I purchase an run multi-port injection so I can keep my meth setup the way that it is now but instead of the fsb controlling meth it would be controlled by the PI controller. I have no problem adding in 6 additional check valves to the existing one that I have now. Thank you for your input.
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Ariano Ariano is offline
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Default 05-28-2018, 03:15 PM

Ok Terry,
So if I'm getting this right, it would be best if I purchase an run multi-port injection so I can keep my meth setup the way that it is now but instead of the fsb controlling meth it would be controlled by the PI controller. I have no problem adding in 6 additional check valves to the existing one that I have now.
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Default 05-28-2018, 06:54 PM

Hard to say what is best. I prefer chargepipe injection with dual BM7 or BM10 nozzles, personally. But if you want to go port injection then using our manifold or rail is the way to do it.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, S55s, N63s, and S63s!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Ariano Ariano is offline
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Default 05-28-2018, 11:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Hard to say what is best. I prefer chargepipe injection with dual BM7 or BM10 nozzles, personally. But if you want to go port injection then using our manifold or rail is the way to do it.
Got you. Thank you again. Also o e more thing; I posted up a couple of logs in the support section. Could you please take a look at them. I'm over boosting and am trying to sort it out. I think I've got the hang of tuning the FF value. So please let me know what you think...
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Ariano Ariano is offline
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Default 05-29-2018, 12:04 AM

Hey Terry, can you tell me what's in the new firmware update?
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Default 05-29-2018, 11:38 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariano
Hey Terry, can you tell me what's in the new firmware update?
All the notes and files for the updates will be here:

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10605


Burger Motorsports
Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, S55s, N63s, and S63s!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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