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nelsonmg nelsonmg is offline
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Default 06-10-2013, 01:54 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by v8bait
Timing is low still, either due to not enough octane still or not enough adaption runs. I'd try to do at least 2 or 3 WOT runs in 3rd or 4th, then take the log.

Regardless, there's room in it for a stronger mix as fuel pressure is fine and FP mapping is 82 (out of 100 max). Maybe next time try 5-6 gallons to a full tank. Logs are otherwise normal.

How does it feel?
It is hard for me to assess without going back to only 93. It feels like it pulls harder but hard to gauge how much harder.

A few questions:
1) What values should I be looking for in timing? How much higher?
2) What should I be looking to avoid in the fuel pressure values?


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Default 06-10-2013, 02:28 PM

Timing should be relatively flat around 10, with the "average ignition" value at 1 or lower ideally.

High pressure should stay over 10 and stable at WOT (drops to 5 at WOT are bad), and low pressure should stay around 60-70psi (I think it's reported in oiltemp). If pressure is low from the LPFP you need a walboro upgrade.

AFR should be around 12-13 at WOT, it sometimes starts a bit leaner, but never higher than 14 after a second or two at WOT.

If trims are maxed out and you still don't have good timing curves (but fuel pressure is good), you need the to flash the ECU for more headroom. You're not there yet.
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Default 06-10-2013, 06:43 PM

To run e85 say a 30% to 50%. Do you need to upgrade the pump? Also once mixed and through motor will I notice a difference?


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aoschadlin aoschadlin is offline
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Default 06-10-2013, 07:53 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisc40
To run e85 say a 30% to 50%. Do you need to upgrade the pump?
Up to 50% you should probably be ok. Depends a lot on your specific pump. Some hold pressure, some don't. Try it, log it, review it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisc40
Also once mixed and through motor will I notice a difference?
Depends on how sensitive your butt dyno is.

My wife just knows my car is quick and thinks its just a JB4. Look at the sig.


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Cool 06-10-2013, 08:11 PM

yea.... your just "stock with a tune."


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Default 06-10-2013, 08:30 PM

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Originally Posted by az335iat
yea.... your just "stock with a tune."
I have RBs going in (hopefully) this week. Will have to see what reasoning I can come up with for that one.

Lucky my wife is a "distracted" driver. She'll likely be passing slow cars at 140 without knowing it.


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Default 06-10-2013, 10:20 PM

LOL. Reminds me of ocean's situation, just tell her it needed a new air filter. My girlfriend always says "isn't your car a little loud for a bmw?", and that was with the flapper closed and before ********* :-(

I'd just turn up the radio but I can't stand that pop crap they play in Houston.
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Default 06-10-2013, 10:35 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by v8bait
LOL. Reminds me of ocean's situation, just tell her it needed a new air filter. My girlfriend always says "isn't your car a little loud for a bmw?", and that was with the flapper closed and before ********* :-(

I'd just turn up the radio but I can't stand that pop crap they play in Houston.
I think my wife is a little suspicious at the moment as I'm pouring over wiring diagrams and trying to install a new meth kit into the car.


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Cool 06-11-2013, 12:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by aoschadlin
.

Lucky my wife is a "distracted" driver. She'll likely be passing slow cars at 140 without knowing it.
H'm.....hope she does not kill herself or any others.....
some could say installing RB is cause for second degree murder charge.


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Default 06-11-2013, 12:13 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by az335iat
H'm.....hope she does not kill herself or any others.....
some could say installing RB is cause for second degree murder charge.
Actually the benefit of where we live is that we're really close to everything. Well within the 10min 'curfew' while waiting for the JB4 to get a 160F signal from the oil temp sensor.

So all up pretty safe.


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nelsonmg nelsonmg is offline
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Default 06-22-2013, 09:28 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by v8bait
Timing should be relatively flat around 10, with the "average ignition" value at 1 or lower ideally.

High pressure should stay over 10 and stable at WOT (drops to 5 at WOT are bad), and low pressure should stay around 60-70psi (I think it's reported in oiltemp). If pressure is low from the LPFP you need a walboro upgrade.

AFR should be around 12-13 at WOT, it sometimes starts a bit leaner, but never higher than 14 after a second or two at WOT.

If trims are maxed out and you still don't have good timing curves (but fuel pressure is good), you need the to flash the ECU for more headroom. You're not there yet.
v8bait, thanks for the insight. I do think the timing was low due to not enough adaptation runs. I have refilled w/ ~5.25 gallons this time and logged a few more runs. Boost was much higher this time but I did notice a few things and wanted to get your opinion.

(1) timing - looks like it improved to levels that you described as normal. how can i interpret this data? what do levels of ~10 mean? i am not familiar w/ normal engine timing or how it is measured so if you know of any reading that will help me further understand this, that would be awesome.

(1) low pressure looked like it started dropping below 60-70. looks like i am hitting the limit for e85/93oct ratio?

(2) average ignition seemed to not go below 1. After reviewing some of my previous logs, it appears that the lowest I have seen it ~1.1-1.2 but it has been much higher in these logs. What you think? What does this average ignition value represent? how can i interpret? Why is the 1 or <1 ideal? How can I get there?

thanks for your help man.
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Default 06-22-2013, 07:27 PM

Fuel trims look just about maxed out...any higher you will trip that code that some are getting from running too high a concentration of e85. Prolly best to get T's flash using the Cobb if you plan on running the amount of e85 you currently are running and higher. It's not just whether or not your lpfp or hpfp or avg ign looks good but a combination of how everything is working together and despite what works for others, it won't necessarily work for you. Best thing to do is to email T your logs and get his input as well. Just my 2 cents.
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nelsonmg nelsonmg is offline
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Default 06-23-2013, 07:25 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkcyd335xi
Fuel trims look just about maxed out...any higher you will trip that code that some are getting from running too high a concentration of e85. Prolly best to get T's flash using the Cobb if you plan on running the amount of e85 you currently are running and higher. It's not just whether or not your lpfp or hpfp or avg ign looks good but a combination of how everything is working together and despite what works for others, it won't necessarily work for you. Best thing to do is to email T your logs and get his input as well. Just my 2 cents.
I will do that. What represents trims in the log data? "misc"?


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Default 06-23-2013, 07:29 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by nelsonmg
I will do that. What represents trims in the log data? "misc"?
If you are looking at your logs...fuel trim is the light green line that goes off the chart and is labelled "trims"
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nelsonmg nelsonmg is offline
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Default 06-23-2013, 08:12 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkcyd335xi
If you are looking at your logs...fuel trim is the light green line that goes off the chart and is labelled "trims"
and you can tell it is nearly maxed out just by it going off the chart? is it tracked in the csv file so I can actually see the data behind the graph?


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Default 06-23-2013, 09:01 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by nelsonmg
and you can tell it is nearly maxed out just by it going off the chart? is it tracked in the csv file so I can actually see the data behind the graph?
Yes because everything plateaus at the top and flat lines....things like pedal input and meth (if applicable). Things that go beyond that flat line at the top, one could conclude is being maxed out to the point it does go "off the chart" and can no longer be seen to see how data is plotted.

And yes, you should be able to see those values in the regular csv file without opening it in graph form. Everything that is plot-able can be checked in excel type chart to see its numerical value.

As for your trims because maxed out, I say that because comparing my buddy's trim on an e85 mix compared to mine which is on straight 93, his trims were literally way off the charts triggering the code that some get when running too high a concentration of e85 with just the jb4 compared to mine which was 1/3 of the reading his was. That's why I advised him to get Terry's flash and now his trims are steady and readable in graph form and his car is running much stronger with a 50-60% e85 mix that he is running now.

Hope that helps...also which is why I said, whenever in doubt, email T your CSV files so he can take a gander and advise you accordingly.
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nelsonmg nelsonmg is offline
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Default 06-23-2013, 09:45 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkcyd335xi
Yes because everything plateaus at the top and flat lines....things like pedal input and meth (if applicable). Things that go beyond that flat line at the top, one could conclude is being maxed out to the point it does go "off the chart" and can no longer be seen to see how data is plotted.

And yes, you should be able to see those values in the regular csv file without opening it in graph form. Everything that is plot-able can be checked in excel type chart to see its numerical value.

As for your trims because maxed out, I say that because comparing my buddy's trim on an e85 mix compared to mine which is on straight 93, his trims were literally way off the charts triggering the code that some get when running too high a concentration of e85 with just the jb4 compared to mine which was 1/3 of the reading his was. That's why I advised him to get Terry's flash and now his trims are steady and readable in graph form and his car is running much stronger with a 50-60% e85 mix that he is running now.

Hope that helps...also which is why I said, whenever in doubt, email T your CSV files so he can take a gander and advise you accordingly.
definitely helps. i appreciate the help man.


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Default 06-23-2013, 10:04 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by nelsonmg
definitely helps. i appreciate the help man.
No prob bro...we are all here to help each other out!
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Default 06-24-2013, 11:26 AM

i have access to both 100 octane and E85 100% here is my dilemma, 100 octane is $10 per gallon where E85 is only $3.65 pg. What mix of 93 with E85 should i do to match the 100 octane?

Also is it safe to run the E85 mixed with 93 over the 100 octane?

Thank you in advance.


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Cool 06-24-2013, 01:40 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by badblack550ix
i have access to both 100 octane and E85 100% here is my dilemma, 100 octane is $10 per gallon where E85 is only $3.65 pg. What mix of 93 with E85 should i do to match the 100 octane?

Also is it safe to run the E85 mixed with 93 over the 100 octane?

Thank you in advance.
The general consensus is that E85 is around 105 octane....if it is really E85.
The problem running high amounts of E85 is the additional quantity of fuel needed for a give HP.... compared to normal gasoline.

The stock BMW fuel system will handle 30% E85 with no problems while some cars can run 50%.... it all depends on your car's fuel system.


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Default 06-26-2013, 11:29 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by az335iat
The general consensus is that E85 is around 105 octane....if it is really E85.
The problem running high amounts of E85 is the additional quantity of fuel needed for a give HP.... compared to normal gasoline.

The stock BMW fuel system will handle 30% E85 with no problems while some cars can run 50%.... it all depends on your car's fuel system.
the E85 i have access to us 100% E85 been tested by many local Racers.

and thx for Advice.


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valing valing is offline
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Default 07-23-2013, 11:09 PM

With Map5:
Is it ok to tank E85/93 and the next 2 times 93 then 3 times E85/93 and so on? Or i have to adjust the Map5 after refuel with/without E85?
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Default 07-24-2013, 12:25 AM

You can not alternate tanking e85 and 93. Everytime you tank you have to mix e85 AND 93. Start with 25% e85, like 10 liters e85 and 30 liters 93. You can leave it on map 5. It requires a few 3rd gears pulls so the jb4 adapts to your mixture and mods especially the first time you add some e85.
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Default 07-24-2013, 12:42 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artial
You can not alternate tanking e85 and 93. Everytime you tank you have to mix e85 AND 93. Start with 25% e85, like 10 liters e85 and 30 liters 93. You can leave it on map 5. It requires a few 3rd gears pulls so the jb4 adapts to your mixture and mods especially the first time you add some e85.
Ok. But if i want tank only 93 for a few times i have to make a few 3rd gear pulls again?
For clarify: i dont want tank/mix E85 every time, only when "needed"
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Default 07-24-2013, 12:50 AM

It is still ok to keep map 5 all the time. Alternatively you can also switch to another map ( like map 1if you are stock) when you tank 93 only. Or you can also switch to another map than 5, exit the jb4 menu, then switch back to map 5: that will reset the jb4 map 5 learning process.
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