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(#26)
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JBoe JBoe is offline
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Default 03-29-2020, 11:53 PM

E85 helps with the Octane levels to keep you safer. It is a bit of a challenge since you have to do some calculations to keep in the right ratio. Most of us shoot for E20 max. Our cars are finicky and higher can result in FHP crashes, leading to all sorts of codes and issues.

Here's the site I use to calculate my info: Calculate Ethanol % of Mixture

You simply put in the gallons of E85 and the gallons of pump gas used. For some reason, on the pump gas side, it defaults to 89 Octane. You'll have to change that if you want to see the Octane change. The benefits are better than the 2pt increase shown.

For your fist fill up, just put in 2gal of E85 and top off with the highest Octane your pumps offer. For me that's 91 piss gas. lol. Refills are where the math can get tricky. I use the MPG, Miles to Empty, Estimated Reserve Qty from Empty and Know tank volume. It's always worked for me and been close enough to hit the mark every time.

Example:

MPG = 20 (Use what your dash states at the time of fill-up)
Miles to Empty = 60 (Use what your dash states at the time of fill-up)
Estimated Reserve = 1gal (This is the fuel in the tank remaining when gauges say empty)
Known tank full volume = 13.7gal

60/20 = 3gal
3gal + 1gal reserve = 4gal in the tank (Approximately)
13.7 - 4gal = 9.7gal that you'll be filling.
Now use the calculator above to get the perfect blend for E20... @1.25gal of E85 and 9.5gal of Pump will do the trick or close enough. Try to average up or down to E20. The calculator defaults to 89 Octane. You can change that to see the Octane increase. Honestly, it gives the car more than the calculator seems to show.

That's it for E85... it's simple and easy once you get the hang of it and plan your travels out to either have enough fuel for a return or E85 access along the way.

Before doing this, I'd get your trims in better shape. E85 does put extra duty on the FHP and you're already maxing out trims. You're likely to see a crash if you try E85 first. Once trims are in control, then go for it. You'll likely see better overall performance up top as you'll be meeting boost target, have good timing and be at true full open throttle. Just my .02


AFE Drop-in Filter
BMS Meth Kit (100% M1)
Muffler Delete
CA 91 Piss Gas...
(8oz Boostane 95ish Oct)
E85 (2Gal/Fill)
BEF (Race_WMI)
JB4 (Map 7 - Add 45... 19-20psi)
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(#27)
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340iMX 340iMX is offline
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Question 03-30-2020, 08:25 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JBoe
E85 helps with the Octane levels to keep you safer. It is a bit of a challenge since you have to do some calculations to keep in the right ratio. Most of us shoot for E20 max. Our cars are finicky and higher can result in FHP crashes, leading to all sorts of codes and issues.

Here's the site I use to calculate my info: Calculate Ethanol % of Mixture

You simply put in the gallons of E85 and the gallons of pump gas used. For some reason, on the pump gas side, it defaults to 89 Octane. You'll have to change that if you want to see the Octane change. The benefits are better than the 2pt increase shown.

For your fist fill up, just put in 2gal of E85 and top off with the highest Octane your pumps offer. For me that's 91 piss gas. lol. Refills are where the math can get tricky. I use the MPG, Miles to Empty, Estimated Reserve Qty from Empty and Know tank volume. It's always worked for me and been close enough to hit the mark every time.

Example:

MPG = 20 (Use what your dash states at the time of fill-up)
Miles to Empty = 60 (Use what your dash states at the time of fill-up)
Estimated Reserve = 1gal (This is the fuel in the tank remaining when gauges say empty)
Known tank full volume = 13.7gal

60/20 = 3gal
3gal + 1gal reserve = 4gal in the tank (Approximately)
13.7 - 4gal = 9.7gal that you'll be filling.
Now use the calculator above to get the perfect blend for E20... @1.25gal of E85 and 9.5gal of Pump will do the trick or close enough. Try to average up or down to E20. The calculator defaults to 89 Octane. You can change that to see the Octane increase. Honestly, it gives the car more than the calculator seems to show.

That's it for E85... it's simple and easy once you get the hang of it and plan your travels out to either have enough fuel for a return or E85 access along the way.

Before doing this, I'd get your trims in better shape. E85 does put extra duty on the FHP and you're already maxing out trims. You're likely to see a crash if you try E85 first. Once trims are in control, then go for it. You'll likely see better overall performance up top as you'll be meeting boost target, have good timing and be at true full open throttle. Just my .02
E85 sounds a little confusing and a hassle but Iíll get the hang of it, as far as getting my trims in better shape what should I do? Lower meth add to 50? I did notice on 50 add logs they werenít as high. Thank you for all the help
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(#28)
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JBoe JBoe is offline
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Default 03-30-2020, 05:20 PM

Post up a current log. Looks like we're the only ones working on this in this thread. No need to quote everything. Lol...


AFE Drop-in Filter
BMS Meth Kit (100% M1)
Muffler Delete
CA 91 Piss Gas...
(8oz Boostane 95ish Oct)
E85 (2Gal/Fill)
BEF (Race_WMI)
JB4 (Map 7 - Add 45... 19-20psi)
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(#29)
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340iMX 340iMX is offline
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Question 03-30-2020, 06:54 PM

Okay lol my bad hereís two fresh logs
Attached Files
File Type: csv 1st 20200330_202226_runs(1).csv (27.3 KB, 48 views)
File Type: csv 2nd 20200330_202259_runs(1).csv (7.6 KB, 47 views)
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(#30)
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JBoe JBoe is offline
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Default 03-30-2020, 09:14 PM

First, let's just review what's happening. Your targeting a high level of boost. The car tries to respond, but your fuel maxes out. The throttle starts to close up in order to reduce boost in the manifold. Thus, while you peak a higher level, you end up dropping back to almost stock up top.

Take a look a the attached. Boost 2 represents pressure in the manifold after the throttle. Boost 1 represents pressure before the throttle. I removed everything but the boost, target and RPM in the 1st image. In the second I put in the throttle to better demonstrate what's happening. I'll post my recommendations, separately, after this post.
Attached Images
  


AFE Drop-in Filter
BMS Meth Kit (100% M1)
Muffler Delete
CA 91 Piss Gas...
(8oz Boostane 95ish Oct)
E85 (2Gal/Fill)
BEF (Race_WMI)
JB4 (Map 7 - Add 45... 19-20psi)
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(#31)
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JBoe JBoe is offline
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Default 03-30-2020, 09:21 PM

Attached is what we'll call your starting log. As we move forward, we'll compare and discuss the changes and their impacts.

First, let's get your fuel trims and boost levels under control. Drop ADD back to 40. Drive around a bit and do a few pulls to get FF dialed in. When everything feels settled and the car is at normal temps (Not Hot after pulls), get a clean log and post it up. Let the adventure begin...
Attached Images
 


AFE Drop-in Filter
BMS Meth Kit (100% M1)
Muffler Delete
CA 91 Piss Gas...
(8oz Boostane 95ish Oct)
E85 (2Gal/Fill)
BEF (Race_WMI)
JB4 (Map 7 - Add 45... 19-20psi)
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(#32)
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340iMX 340iMX is offline
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Default 03-31-2020, 12:40 PM

Okay got it,
So I drove around for 20 min ish omw home from work doing pulls here and there . Car was at temps before I did this log it is also a little wet outside currently
Attached Files
File Type: csv (40 additive)20200331_142718_runs(1).csv (8.0 KB, 51 views)
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(#33)
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JBoe JBoe is offline
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Default 03-31-2020, 10:40 PM

Looking better... Your manifold boost is starting to mirror target and pre-TB boost. It's still slightly lower, but you also have some closure still. Timing is more stable and slightly higher. That's great. We're heading in the right direction.

Do you have the FF wires/harness connected? I see FOL is at 60. Please let me know.

Drop ADD to 35 and relog after FF stabilizes.
Attached Images
 


AFE Drop-in Filter
BMS Meth Kit (100% M1)
Muffler Delete
CA 91 Piss Gas...
(8oz Boostane 95ish Oct)
E85 (2Gal/Fill)
BEF (Race_WMI)
JB4 (Map 7 - Add 45... 19-20psi)
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(#34)
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340iMX 340iMX is offline
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Question 03-31-2020, 11:07 PM

FF wires meaning the EWG harness? I did install the EWG harness, I will change add to 35 and try to do a log first thing in the morning
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(#35)
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JBoe JBoe is offline
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Default 03-31-2020, 11:13 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 340iMX
FF wires meaning the EWG harness? I did install the EWG harness, I will change add to 35 and try to do a log first thing in the morning
Nope... FF meaning fuel harness that intercepts the fuel pressure sensor. That's what makes FOL usable for us. You'd have three harnesses on the top. One going to the intake (MAP) sensor, one to the manifold (TMAP) sensor and another to the fuel sensor at the end of the fuel rail passenger side.


AFE Drop-in Filter
BMS Meth Kit (100% M1)
Muffler Delete
CA 91 Piss Gas...
(8oz Boostane 95ish Oct)
E85 (2Gal/Fill)
BEF (Race_WMI)
JB4 (Map 7 - Add 45... 19-20psi)

Last edited by JBoe; 03-31-2020 at 11:25 PM.. Reason: messed up harness description... should be 3.
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(#36)
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JBoe JBoe is offline
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Default 03-31-2020, 11:21 PM

Another thing to note is that the DME closes down on the throttle to limit/control boost. As you get that under control, you'll see DME BT become more stable and read higher. That equates to more consistent power overall.

Take a look at this overlay comparison. DME BT, the thicker red line, represents your change to ADD 40. The other line (Boost_2) has been changed to match your original log/settings. See how we're getting more boost demand from the DME at times? That's the another goal, but it's a byproduct of getting the closures reduced.
Attached Images
 


AFE Drop-in Filter
BMS Meth Kit (100% M1)
Muffler Delete
CA 91 Piss Gas...
(8oz Boostane 95ish Oct)
E85 (2Gal/Fill)
BEF (Race_WMI)
JB4 (Map 7 - Add 45... 19-20psi)

Last edited by JBoe; 03-31-2020 at 11:27 PM..
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(#37)
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JBoe JBoe is offline
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Default 03-31-2020, 11:29 PM

I had a few mistakes in my last 2 posts... I've edited/updated them. Hope this helps clear things up a bit there. We'll continue manana...


AFE Drop-in Filter
BMS Meth Kit (100% M1)
Muffler Delete
CA 91 Piss Gas...
(8oz Boostane 95ish Oct)
E85 (2Gal/Fill)
BEF (Race_WMI)
JB4 (Map 7 - Add 45... 19-20psi)
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(#38)
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340iMX 340iMX is offline
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Question 04-01-2020, 09:28 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JBoe
Nope... FF meaning fuel harness that intercepts the fuel pressure sensor. That's what makes FOL usable for us. You'd have three harnesses on the top. One going to the intake (MAP) sensor, one to the manifold (TMAP) sensor and another to the fuel sensor at the end of the fuel rail passenger side.
Okay, also I am pretty sure I have the ones going to the map, and tmap, I donít think I have the fuel rail one I had trouble finding what I needed to get, would it be this one? Also should I still do a log at 35 additive
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File Type: pdf PDF Photos 2020-04-01.pdf (302.8 KB, 49 views)
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(#39)
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JBoe JBoe is offline
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Default 04-01-2020, 10:45 AM

Yes, to the connector. If you don't have it, no worries. You won't need it. The BEF takes care of that need... When you're ready for that step.

For now, get a log at ADD35. Then drop FOL to 0, just to be sure it isn't having an effect. Relog after that change, still on ADD35, and we'll compare. Since you don't have the harness it shouldn't have an effect, but I like to be cautious. Lol.


AFE Drop-in Filter
BMS Meth Kit (100% M1)
Muffler Delete
CA 91 Piss Gas...
(8oz Boostane 95ish Oct)
E85 (2Gal/Fill)
BEF (Race_WMI)
JB4 (Map 7 - Add 45... 19-20psi)
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(#40)
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340iMX 340iMX is offline
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Question 04-01-2020, 01:39 PM

Okay, Did some multiple logs... well tried to, too much traffic. I ended up finding space to get two good logs in, one with FOL at 0
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(#41)
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JBoe JBoe is offline
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Default 04-01-2020, 06:23 PM

MUCH BETTER!! I think this is a safe and solid level for the ADD level. Much safer and timing looks amazing. It's obviously lower boost levels, but with the added timing it should still feel very strong and be pulling hard.

What's your butt-dyno feel? Is this similar even though it's reduced boost?

If you compare from the starting log, you're actually getting more boost into the engine now through the entire rpm band. 18 peak to 15 by redline, but it's a smooth curve. DME BT is also much more smooth. Now we can start tuning out the throttle closure across the rpm band using the bias settings. That should increase power as you'll be hitting target on Boost and Boost 2 levels.
Attached Images
  


AFE Drop-in Filter
BMS Meth Kit (100% M1)
Muffler Delete
CA 91 Piss Gas...
(8oz Boostane 95ish Oct)
E85 (2Gal/Fill)
BEF (Race_WMI)
JB4 (Map 7 - Add 45... 19-20psi)
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(#42)
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JBoe JBoe is offline
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Default 04-01-2020, 06:28 PM

Next Steps:

Leave FOL at 0. Put all duty bias settings to 50. Raise PID Gain to 15. Relearn FF and relog. We'll start there.


AFE Drop-in Filter
BMS Meth Kit (100% M1)
Muffler Delete
CA 91 Piss Gas...
(8oz Boostane 95ish Oct)
E85 (2Gal/Fill)
BEF (Race_WMI)
JB4 (Map 7 - Add 45... 19-20psi)
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(#43)
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340iMX 340iMX is offline
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Default 04-01-2020, 06:50 PM

okay sweet, I do feel a little difference kinda not as fast as it was but we are hitting less boost lol, glad everything is running better. I will switch those settings and do a log tomorrow morning depending on traffic but for sure by 3 p.m. thank you again for all the help I really appreciated it
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(#44)
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JBoe JBoe is offline
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Default 04-01-2020, 07:28 PM

Ok... we'll get a little bit more back as we smooth out and/or reduce the closures. Once we have that, there's a few more things we can try to maximize your setup "as-is." From there, you'll have to get more fuel. Most likely, that would be switching to M1. In the end... it's about your happiness at the level achieved. lol.


AFE Drop-in Filter
BMS Meth Kit (100% M1)
Muffler Delete
CA 91 Piss Gas...
(8oz Boostane 95ish Oct)
E85 (2Gal/Fill)
BEF (Race_WMI)
JB4 (Map 7 - Add 45... 19-20psi)
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(#45)
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340iMX 340iMX is offline
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Question 04-02-2020, 12:07 PM

Yeah I understand, wished they could ship M1 in the mail car feels better during this log not that it was bad before, also if the trims go down to 16 at idle is it okay, itís just something I noticed
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File Type: csv 20200402_135214_runs(1).csv (8.0 KB, 46 views)
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(#46)
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JBoe JBoe is offline
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Default 04-02-2020, 05:16 PM

Nothing to worry about at idle. Everything below boost is on stock DME settings and doing what the factory programed. The logs are looking damn good. Boost and Boost 2 are starting to be a mirror of each other. While the log shows some throttle closing, it's becoming more of a relation to target. That's good as it means we're close to being able to dial it in with duty bias.

Next Steps:

Raise PID to 18. Relearn FF and relog.
Attached Images
 


AFE Drop-in Filter
BMS Meth Kit (100% M1)
Muffler Delete
CA 91 Piss Gas...
(8oz Boostane 95ish Oct)
E85 (2Gal/Fill)
BEF (Race_WMI)
JB4 (Map 7 - Add 45... 19-20psi)
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(#47)
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340iMX 340iMX is offline
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Default 04-03-2020, 08:30 AM

SWEET! I do feel like the car is running smoother
Attached Files
File Type: csv (PID18)20200403_100516_runs(1).csv (7.1 KB, 45 views)
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(#48)
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JBoe JBoe is offline
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Default 04-03-2020, 09:45 AM

Awesome... glad to hear that. The log is looking great right now. Finally under control and way less closure overall. Boost and Boost 2 are right on each others. Finally getting full boost into the engine. We didn't go into detail, but we raised PID due to your boost not self regulating to target very well. In the past lots you'll see it overshoots in lower rpms and then goes under. Almost like it couldn't react fast enough to prevent the overshoot... when it did react, it made over reacted and dropped you way under. Now you can see that you're not overshooting and only slightly falling under at higher RPMs. That's under control and we can use the Duty Bias to get the top end where it needs to be. Once we get things on target, or as close as possible, FF will take over as your universal adjuster.

Next Steps:

Raise Duty Bias from 50 to 55 from 5000rpm to 7000rpm. Relearn FF and relog.
Attached Images
 


AFE Drop-in Filter
BMS Meth Kit (100% M1)
Muffler Delete
CA 91 Piss Gas...
(8oz Boostane 95ish Oct)
E85 (2Gal/Fill)
BEF (Race_WMI)
JB4 (Map 7 - Add 45... 19-20psi)
Reply With Quote
(#49)
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340iMX 340iMX is offline
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Default 04-03-2020, 03:32 PM

Gotcha, gotcha
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File Type: csv 20200403_162136_runs(1).csv (6.6 KB, 45 views)
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(#50)
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JBoe JBoe is offline
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Default 04-03-2020, 04:48 PM

Ok... looking good up top now. Let's drop a little on the low side to keep from over boosting early on.

Next Steps:

Drop Duty Bias from 50 to 45 from 1500rpm to 4500rpm and put 5000rpm to 51... leave the higher rpms as is, at 55. This should do the trick on the rest of the band.


AFE Drop-in Filter
BMS Meth Kit (100% M1)
Muffler Delete
CA 91 Piss Gas...
(8oz Boostane 95ish Oct)
E85 (2Gal/Fill)
BEF (Race_WMI)
JB4 (Map 7 - Add 45... 19-20psi)
Reply With Quote
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