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Jaybone Jaybone is offline
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Default 06-04-2021, 09:04 AM

In my opinion there isn't much difference between a tune and jb4. I like the JB4 much better then a tune as it adapts to add on's and allows you to add on without "re tuning" like a ecu would require. Also being able to display E85 with the flex fuel kit and things like that are great! Again my opinion
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Djfourmonie Djfourmonie is offline
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Default 06-04-2021, 01:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by krissanta94
That's awesome man, I understand the point your trying to make and that's a lot of information you've put the time and effort into. But a parts list or better put a build is entirely up to the eye of the beholder, but the question is still how far can you take the jb4 before requiring a specific tune other then the obvious of fueling, and turbo upgrades.
I just did conventional thinking testing. JB4 with 40% Ethanol max power 247hp SAE and 268 ft of torque. Uncorrected peaks of 251 hp and 271 ft of torque.

Map 5

Other details: 5w40 synthetic oil, K&H drop-in panel filter and lightweight Enkei wheels.

How much more do you want?

There is another 50+ hp on the table without a back end flash and without upgrading the turbo.


2020 Kia Forte GT
6 Speed Manual
JB4+Bluetooth Connect
Burger Motorsports Water Methanol (45/55 mix)
Whiteline Springs

13.77@103
Map 7, E30+WMI, Hoosier Drag Radials
E85 Station Locator (US Only)
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(#4328)
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Aldony Aldony is offline
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Default 06-06-2021, 05:04 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AWDGT2
I'd change several things. If you have fuel wire, just put 118 all the way down Fuel Bias. Next, zero out the left column from top to bottom. On the right Duty Bias, start at 50 the whole rpm range. Default waste gate possition at 0, PID gain at 20, Auto shift boost redux at 60, FF adaptation at 50. Then zero out that dwp until the rest is sorted.
Whatís this setting good for?
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(#4329)
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bigdingus bigdingus is offline
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Default 06-09-2021, 03:16 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Looks fine to me!
Wanted to follow up with a couple notes, after using the alpha firmware for some time, and a couple questions.

So far, still no issues going into safety modes with the latest alpha firmware. Car feels good.

I figured I'd try out the lagfix setting again, starting at 60. This too hasn't given me any grief, whereas it did on prior firmwares. I'm going to keep playing around with it, see how the car behaves, and upload logs once I get some good ones. But seems like the alpha firmware has been generally good for my car.


As for a couple questions...

How accurate is the 0-60 time in the logs? On the alpha firmware, I'm not getting quite as fast results, regardless of map, compared to previous (and somewhat problematic) firmwares. I've tried accounting for variables like weather, temps, fuel, where I'm testing, whether I'm using LC or not, etc. It's a little harder to test now that the weather is warming up, and even more so given I'm in a location over 6000'.

The car feels good. Logs look good, as best as I can tell. So, not too worried about it, but found it curious. Maybe a traction issue, if the car is more stable with power delivery, even accounting for AWD? I can get you logs if you need to toss around any ideas, but maybe it's just that I shouldn't put much stock in the reported 0-60 time.


Another question, how much tolerance should I have for infrequent and sporadic timing corrections, I believe you said if over 3.5, at high RPMs (3rd or 4th gear)? That is to say, accounting for variables (same tank of gas, same date and location, etc.), I'll see maybe 1 in 10 logs where timing corrections seem a bit high at the top end according to the guidelines you provided.

For now, I'll slowly up my E85 mixture until I notice fuel pressure issues, but otherwise wasn't sure if occasional "blips" are to be expected with timing.

Thanks for the help and insights as always!
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Djfourmonie Djfourmonie is offline
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Default 06-09-2021, 06:19 PM

I am not sure what you mean how much you should tolerate when it comes to timing fluctuations?

DA is one of the most important factors and why SAE based dyno correction doesn't leave a bunch of butt hurt enthusiast wondering what happen. The reality is living in that thin air you are making much less power than at sea level.

That would be my main concern because timing is less important when you can't even compensate for the thin air because the turbos are too tiny.

NHRA Fuel cars suffer at Bandimere but only lose a few tenths because they have an abundance of power, just overdrive the blower some more and for the nitro injected cars it's injecting more nitromethane because it adds another molecule of oxygen on top of the methanol, more means more power.

You need to explore what options are available to increase DA which means significantly dropping the IAT's.

I highly suggest you watch "The Boost Gauge Is Dead To Me" a SEMA talk given by Gale Banks on YouTube. He will clearly explain how important DA is, in his car he calls it Mass Air Density (MAD) but it's the same idea.


2020 Kia Forte GT
6 Speed Manual
JB4+Bluetooth Connect
Burger Motorsports Water Methanol (45/55 mix)
Whiteline Springs

13.77@103
Map 7, E30+WMI, Hoosier Drag Radials
E85 Station Locator (US Only)
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(#4331)
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bigdingus bigdingus is offline
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Default 06-09-2021, 06:52 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Djfourmonie
I am not sure what you mean how much you should tolerate when it comes to timing fluctuations?

DA is one of the most important factors and why SAE based dyno correction doesn't leave a bunch of butt hurt enthusiast wondering what happen. The reality is living in that thin air you are making much less power than at sea level.

That would be my main concern because timing is less important when you can't even compensate for the thin air because the turbos are too tiny.

NHRA Fuel cars suffer at Bandimere but only lose a few tenths because they have an abundance of power, just overdrive the blower some more and for the nitro injected cars it's injecting more nitromethane because it adds another molecule of oxygen on top of the methanol, more means more power.

You need to explore what options are available to increase DA which means significantly dropping the IAT's.

I highly suggest you watch "The Boost Gauge Is Dead To Me" a SEMA talk given by Gale Banks on YouTube. He will clearly explain how important DA is, in his car he calls it Mass Air Density (MAD) but it's the same idea.
Right, Iím familiar with the role altitude plays in performance. When asking about my log-reported 0-60 times on the alpha firmware compared to previous firmware, itís all relative to my own car and after accounting for and controlling variables as much as possible. Altitude hasnít changed, but in combination with consistently warm weather now, itís that much harder to attempt some semblance of relative testing even compared to a couple weeks ago.

Granted, I was more curious if I should take the log-reported 0-60 times too seriously. If theyíre not particularly accurate, then that answers that question.

I might not have asked my other question clearly. If, say, 10% of run logs show less than ideal timing corrections, but not terrible, is that enough to warrant backing down a map, assuming I couldnít make any other changes to the car or fuel? Trying to learn more the platform, how to maximize performance within than context, keeping things safe and reliable, and so on. And I did mean that in a context totally separate from my 0-60 times question.
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Djfourmonie Djfourmonie is offline
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Default 06-09-2021, 07:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdingus
Right, Iím familiar with the role altitude plays in performance. When asking about my log-reported 0-60 times on the alpha firmware compared to previous firmware, itís all relative to my own car and after accounting for and controlling variables as much as possible. Altitude hasnít changed, but in combination with consistently warm weather now, itís that much harder to attempt some semblance of relative testing even compared to a couple weeks ago.

Granted, I was more curious if I should take the log-reported 0-60 times too seriously. If theyíre not particularly accurate, then that answers that question.

I might not have asked my other question clearly. If, say, 10% of run logs show less than ideal timing corrections, but not terrible, is that enough to warrant backing down a map, assuming I couldnít make any other changes to the car or fuel? Trying to learn more the platform, how to maximize performance within than context, keeping things safe and reliable, and so on. And I did mean that in a context totally separate from my 0-60 times question.
There is no danger in demanding more boost, I assume that is what you mean if that is a benefit to drop down? I would say no, because the best way to make up for thin air is to add more. The problem is the stock turbos are about response not horsepower so you squeeze them harder they tend to make more hot air than boost.

Gale Banks: Get MAD About Boost


2020 Kia Forte GT
6 Speed Manual
JB4+Bluetooth Connect
Burger Motorsports Water Methanol (45/55 mix)
Whiteline Springs

13.77@103
Map 7, E30+WMI, Hoosier Drag Radials
E85 Station Locator (US Only)
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Corleone1 Corleone1 is offline
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Default 06-10-2021, 12:08 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdingus
I figured I'd try out the lagfix setting again, starting at 60. This too hasn't given me any grief, whereas it did on prior firmwares. I'm going to keep playing around with it, see how the car behaves, and upload logs once I get some good ones. But seems like the alpha firmware has been generally good for my car
I have tried out lag fix and it seems that 0 is best and have better response than higher numbers. Me and my tuner have tested it when standing still in neutral and very fast WOT fully and feel how engine response. 0 seems best even if the difference is very small. Maybe time is a thing here, signal needs to be manipulate in JB4 before it will go back to ECU and takes some milliseconds probably.


I have a windbooster and run sport. It makes car feel better. Stock gas pedal is a catastrofy really...


KiA Stinger AWD, 3.3, 2018, only 7.500 miles and white
JB4. 0-100 km/h in 4,0 seconds in JB4 log. 2Ĺ" primary DP,s with 200 cells..., secondary straight... Wagner IC with inlet pipe KN filters. Windboost. BMS WMI.
Strip 2021-05-29: 12,226 seconds @ 189,08 km/h (117,51 Mph), 60 F: 2,030 seconds. No launch, No brake snip, without WMI
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Boobizzy Boobizzy is offline
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Default 06-10-2021, 01:24 PM

Hey guys question for you. So I’m about to throw on an intercooler, exhaust, intake and intercooler in my Kia stinger 3.3t. I found a spot locally that is familiar with jb4 especially on bmw’s. It would be the first time for them modding a stinger. The one tech said he would suggest map 5 but from what I read it request racing fuel and E85. I mentioned all I’m trying to run is octane. Has anyone actually ran map 5 on 93 octane?
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Jaybone Jaybone is offline
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Default 06-10-2021, 01:36 PM

Map 5 would run poorly on 93 octane without either E85 mixed or some octane booster. A log will show exactly where you stand. If you daily drive the car map 2 with 93 is perfect in that situation. And then at a track day or for fun you could throw in boostane and run map 5 with 93. Key is to log,log,log to see how the motor is handling stuff.
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Boobizzy Boobizzy is offline
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Default 06-10-2021, 01:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaybone
Map 5 would run poorly on 93 octane without either E85 mixed or some octane booster. A log will show exactly where you stand. If you daily drive the car map 2 with 93 is perfect in that situation. And then at a track day or for fun you could throw in boostane and run map 5 with 93. Key is to log,log,log to see how the motor is handling stuff.
Thank you my friend. Not sure why the person would suggest map 5. Maybe theyíre not aware of the newest firmware. Stuff like that makes be second guess if I should use them or not now haha.
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Jaybone Jaybone is offline
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Default 06-10-2021, 01:46 PM

Your welcome map 2 seems to be the most popular for daily driving. You will notice a nice difference between stock and all your bolt ons and running map 2. Again just log and check as you go. Enjoy!
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turboAWD turboAWD is offline
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Default 06-10-2021, 02:09 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boobizzy
Hey guys question for you. So Iím about to throw on an intercooler, exhaust, intake and intercooler in my Kia stinger 3.3t. I found a spot locally that is familiar with jb4 especially on bmwís. It would be the first time for them modding a stinger. The one tech said he would suggest map 5 but from what I read it request racing fuel and E85. I mentioned all Iím trying to run is octane. Has anyone actually ran map 5 on 93 octane?

Is map 5 on BMWs the same as map 5 for Stinger? Maps got re-arranged about a year ago, and I think the old map 5 is now map 3? Which is possible for good quality 93, I believe, although probably most often used with E30.
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Jaybone Jaybone is offline
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Default 06-10-2021, 02:15 PM

Can't speak for the BMW maps but map 5 for the Stinger on 93 would not look good.
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Boobizzy Boobizzy is offline
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Default 06-10-2021, 02:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by turboAWD
Is map 5 on BMWs the same as map 5 for Stinger? Maps got re-arranged about a year ago, and I think the old map 5 is now map 3? Which is possible for good quality 93, I believe, although probably most often used with E30.
That could very well be the case. Iíll definitely relay that to the tech.
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Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
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Default 06-10-2021, 08:20 PM

Been swamped with development lately so not had as much time for the forum.

On the Kia front, we got our hands on a new K5 1.6L and will be working on refining the firmware and JB4 for them. Already found a few things we need to change relative to the 2.5L system so hang tight K5 1.6L BETA testers you'll like the results.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
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Default 06-10-2021, 08:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by turboAWD
Is map 5 on BMWs the same as map 5 for Stinger? Maps got re-arranged about a year ago, and I think the old map 5 is now map 3? Which is possible for good quality 93, I believe, although probably most often used with E30.
Each platform has it's own map guide, refer to the latest guide right in the app! Or in the first post of that platforms JB4 thread.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Corleone1 Corleone1 is offline
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Default 06-11-2021, 06:05 AM

Auto Shift Boost Redux

You guys that run more aggresive maps. What do you use fŲr setting for ASBR? From start it is set to 60%, any benefits to lower to 50?


KiA Stinger AWD, 3.3, 2018, only 7.500 miles and white
JB4. 0-100 km/h in 4,0 seconds in JB4 log. 2Ĺ" primary DP,s with 200 cells..., secondary straight... Wagner IC with inlet pipe KN filters. Windboost. BMS WMI.
Strip 2021-05-29: 12,226 seconds @ 189,08 km/h (117,51 Mph), 60 F: 2,030 seconds. No launch, No brake snip, without WMI
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Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
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Default 06-11-2021, 08:47 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corleone1
Auto Shift Boost Redux

You guys that run more aggresive maps. What do you use fŲr setting for ASBR? From start it is set to 60%, any benefits to lower to 50?
The default value of 60 is normally fine. It's only useful for those with EWG connectors who have over boost immediately post shift, in which case you'd wait to raise it as needed to cut WGDC more proactively during the shift. Not been much of an issue with the Stinger.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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(#4345)
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Stiletto Stiletto is offline
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Default Friday log review - 06-11-2021, 10:10 AM

A bit longer of a log than last time. Hopefully has the details you need for a good review.

Mods:
JB4 w/ fuel wires and EWG harness
Map 2
93 AKI (Exxon)
Denso 5347 plugs
Velossa Tech Big Mouth
Injen intake
JT merge pipe
GFB Mach 2 BPVs
Ultimate Performance FMIC w/ cold side pipe
Ark secondary tubes
Stillen exhaust
Attached Files
File Type: csv P21_M2_R5_210527_1724.csv (29.4 KB, 20 views)
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(#4346)
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Jaybone Jaybone is offline
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Default 06-11-2021, 10:20 AM

Timing does not look good lots being pulled. What are you plugs gapped at? Also runs are too short do a solid 40-80+mph
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Stiletto Stiletto is offline
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Default 06-11-2021, 11:17 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaybone
Timing does not look good lots being pulled. What are you plugs gapped at? Also runs are too short do a solid 40-80+mph
Was .022" when I installed them.

Yeah, I asked the dyno operator to try to get a longer pull, but he's limited when doing the measurements. I'll find a stretch of road to stomp on it...like in a school zone or near a duck crossing.

Last edited by Stiletto; 06-12-2021 at 08:16 AM..
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Corleone1 Corleone1 is offline
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Default 06-12-2021, 01:39 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
The default value of 60 is normally fine. It's only useful for those with EWG connectors who have over boost immediately post shift, in which case you'd wait to raise it as needed to cut WGDC more proactively during the shift. Not been much of an issue with the Stinger.
Thanks, I have no overboost and EWG so I will test with 50% and see if shifts can be a bit faster.


KiA Stinger AWD, 3.3, 2018, only 7.500 miles and white
JB4. 0-100 km/h in 4,0 seconds in JB4 log. 2Ĺ" primary DP,s with 200 cells..., secondary straight... Wagner IC with inlet pipe KN filters. Windboost. BMS WMI.
Strip 2021-05-29: 12,226 seconds @ 189,08 km/h (117,51 Mph), 60 F: 2,030 seconds. No launch, No brake snip, without WMI
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alexg70 alexg70 is offline
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Default Map 2 93 log - 06-12-2021, 10:41 AM

Just wanted to make sure everything looks fine. I saw timing wasn't exact among all cylinders so I figured id ask.
Attached Files
File Type: csv P21_M2_R3_210612_1046.csv (51.2 KB, 19 views)
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Jaybone Jaybone is offline
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Default 06-12-2021, 11:14 AM

Little noise on 4 still within limits I would say. Probably wouldn’t hurt to pull that plug and recheck the gap on it. Otherwise looks good to me!
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