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BeastMode335i BeastMode335i is offline
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Default Smoking issue, culprit found! - 01-11-2016, 07:09 AM

So after months of my car getting worse and worse, I got BMWNA involved and they had gotten the dealers manager to call me and he agreed to diagnose it completely for free.. After 1.5 weeks of them having my car, I called today to do a follow up, and he says they're not going to replace my turbos for me because the wastegates are fine, however my valve seals are dumping oil into the turbos and he even believes they ruined my turbos.. He said since I've been having such a rough time, he'd give me 20% off any work I decide to have them do, and he won't charge me if i decide to just put it back together and go pick it up.. So I think since they're already in there I may just buy a set of valve seals from ECS and have BMW put them in but I'm curious though, could failed valve seals ruin turbos, or would they merely appear to have failed the turbos because the oil being blowing into them..?? I'm just trying to strategize the smartest way to confront this issue and develop a backup plan if necessary...

I am happy to finally know what's causing the smoking, but for as much as my car is smoking, it's gotta be more then one valve seal leaking I'd imagine.. Smoke comes pluming out of both exhaust tips too, not just one so I don't believe it's bank specific but I'm not 100% on that...

I wonder how much they charge for the valve seals job, I'm gonna speak with the manager today and get some numbers together..

Then the big issue I face is, after all of this, should I keep it or run far away lol..!
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Default 01-11-2016, 08:17 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeastMode335i
So after months of my car getting worse and worse, I got BMWNA involved and they had gotten the dealers manager to call me and he agreed to diagnose it completely for free.. After 1.5 weeks of them having my car, I called today to do a follow up, and he says they're not going to replace my turbos for me because the wastegates are fine, however my valve seals are dumping oil into the turbos and he even believes they ruined my turbos.. He said since I've been having such a rough time, he'd give me 20% off any work I decide to have them do, and he won't charge me if i decide to just put it back together and go pick it up.. So I think since they're already in there I may just buy a set of valve seals from ECS and have BMW put them in but I'm curious though, could failed valve seals ruin turbos, or would they merely appear to have failed the turbos because the oil being blowing into them..?? I'm just trying to strategize the smartest way to confront this issue and develop a backup plan if necessary...

I am happy to finally know what's causing the smoking, but for as much as my car is smoking, it's gotta be more then one valve seal leaking I'd imagine.. Smoke comes pluming out of both exhaust tips too, not just one so I don't believe it's bank specific but I'm not 100% on that...

I wonder how much they charge for the valve seals job, I'm gonna speak with the manager today and get some numbers together..

Then the big issue I face is, after all of this, should I keep it or run far away lol..!


I dont think that valve seals can ruin turbos unless something got into manifold and hit turbine shaft at high speed, but i dont think that this is the case right ?


2008 335XI(E92) AT/ garrett gtx3582r with jpworks manifold 1.06AR housing/ tial mv-s 38mm wgs(13.5 psi springs)/ tial bov/ fuel it level1 upgrade/ index 12 injectors/ N20 Map sensor/JB4 ST TS BEF with MHD/ Alpina Flash for now.
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Default 01-11-2016, 08:46 AM

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Originally Posted by Taron
I dont think that valve seals can ruin turbos unless something got into manifold and hit turbine shaft at high speed, but i dont think that this is the case right ?
And I don't throw any boost codes or anything, the only codes that pop up are the lambda O2 codes after about 2-3 minutes of smoking heavily, which makes me think they're just getting tripped because all the smoke.. I believe my turbos are probably fine, but they just want me to replace them.. I requested to see the vehicle so the tech could show me what he found..

I just don't see how the valve seals could kill turbos, even if oil was flooding into the exhaust manifold, wouldn't it only burn out through the exhaust??
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Default 01-11-2016, 08:48 AM

do they have shaft play, vertically or horizontally? if not and no signs of contact with something on shafts then turbines should be ok

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeastMode335i
And I don't throw any boost codes or anything, the only codes that pop up are the lambda O2 codes after about 2-3 minutes of smoking heavily, which makes me think they're just getting tripped because all the smoke.. I believe my turbos are probably fine, but they just want me to replace them.. I requested to see the vehicle so the tech could show me what he found..


2008 335XI(E92) AT/ garrett gtx3582r with jpworks manifold 1.06AR housing/ tial mv-s 38mm wgs(13.5 psi springs)/ tial bov/ fuel it level1 upgrade/ index 12 injectors/ N20 Map sensor/JB4 ST TS BEF with MHD/ Alpina Flash for now.
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Default 01-11-2016, 09:27 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taron
do they have shaft play, vertically or horizontally? if not and no signs of contact with something on shafts then turbines should be ok
I'm not sure on the condition on the turbos just yet, as I haven't gone in yet today to speak with them.. My buddy works there an he gave me the "unofficial" news Saturday, so I'll find out today when I speak with the manager as to what's going on and how the got to the notion of bad turbos..
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Austink47 Austink47 is offline
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Default 01-11-2016, 10:00 AM

Is this the same issue that first started months ago? When you posted the video?
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Default 01-11-2016, 11:01 AM

Good deal man! Glad you got it figured out!
To the BMW tech's point though, if the oil gunked the turbines up enough, they could possibly have gotten out of balance which would definitely wear the bearings out. Just a guess though but I have seen this same phenomena in automotive manufacturing machinery with mist collection systems.
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BeastMode335i BeastMode335i is offline
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Default 01-11-2016, 01:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Austink47
Is this the same issue that first started months ago? When you posted the video?
Yes it is, I have a work car and am quite busy so i finally got around to getting BMWNA involved and they got the dealer to diagnose it for free.. Although I'm still questioning this specific dealership because this is the 4th time it's been there.. I also requested to come in today and check out my car and speak with the tech, but the SA who answered said they weren't sure if that'd be possible..?? I just keep getting bad vibes from this place, but it's the only one close to home and it was free so that's the only reason I brought it back there..

Quote:
Originally Posted by AUbeast86
Good deal man! Glad you got it figured out!
To the BMW tech's point though, if the oil gunked the turbines up enough, they could possibly have gotten out of balance which would definitely wear the bearings out. Just a guess though but I have seen this same phenomena in automotive manufacturing machinery with mist collection systems.
Thanks brother I appreciate it.. If the oil was found beyond the exhaust manifold I suppose I'm just going to do the valve seals first because A) it's way less expensive and B) there's a chance my turbos could still be good.. But is there any definitive test to determine if the turbos are still good, I'm thinking like shaft play or something of the sort..??

Thanks for ur input guys!
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ferocity02 ferocity02 is offline
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Default 01-11-2016, 01:55 PM

I cannot reasonably see how the leaking valve stems could damage the turbos.


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Pure Turbos Pure Turbos is offline
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Default 01-11-2016, 02:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AUbeast86
Good deal man! Glad you got it figured out!
To the BMW tech's point though, if the oil gunked the turbines up enough, they could possibly have gotten out of balance which would definitely wear the bearings out. Just a guess though but I have seen this same phenomena in automotive manufacturing machinery with mist collection systems.
This is exactly right, good guess.

We see this condition from time to time. The carbonized oil buildup on the turbine wheel eventually leads to excessive turbine imbalance. Add this symptom to 200,000+ rpm shaft speeds (stock turbo, tuned n54), and it will lead to premature turbo failure.
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Default 01-11-2016, 03:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure Turbos
This is exactly right, good guess.

We see this condition from time to time. The carbonized oil buildup on the turbine wheel eventually leads to excessive turbine imbalance. Add this symptom to 200,000+ rpm shaft speeds (stock turbo, tuned n54), and it will lead to premature turbo failure.

You are expert you know better, but how long you should run smoking engine to have carb on shaft? and in such case, if it was smoking so much it would be impossible to drive the car on the road, even with cats, or its still possible ?

Thanks


2008 335XI(E92) AT/ garrett gtx3582r with jpworks manifold 1.06AR housing/ tial mv-s 38mm wgs(13.5 psi springs)/ tial bov/ fuel it level1 upgrade/ index 12 injectors/ N20 Map sensor/JB4 ST TS BEF with MHD/ Alpina Flash for now.
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Pure Turbos Pure Turbos is offline
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Default 01-11-2016, 04:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taron
You are expert you know better, but how long you should run smoking engine to have carb on shaft? and in such case, if it was smoking so much it would be impossible to drive the car on the road, even with cats, or its still possible ?

Thanks
There's no time frame, and no way to know how long it takes. Usually you have visible smoke out the tailpipe if it's leaking enough oil to contaminate the turbine wheel. Sometimes it's minimal smoke, so it continues to get driven, then the turbos slowly get worse. Moral of the story: if you are smoking, fix the problem ASAP.
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ferocity02 ferocity02 is offline
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Default 01-11-2016, 04:24 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure Turbos
We see this condition from time to time. The carbonized oil buildup on the turbine wheel eventually leads to excessive turbine imbalance. Add this symptom to 200,000+ rpm shaft speeds (stock turbo, tuned n54), and it will lead to premature turbo failure.
Interesting!

From how much your car smokes, I can't imagine it's only because of the valve seals. The gap between the valve and the guide is very small. Also, the oil in the valve cover is not pressurized, so it's relying on gravity and vacuum to get sucked into the cylinders. On top of this, I find it had to imagine more than one or two seals going bad.

On our cars, are the valve stems and seals submerged in oil underneath the valve cover?


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BeastMode335i BeastMode335i is offline
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Default 01-11-2016, 09:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ferocity02
Interesting!

From how much your car smokes, I can't imagine it's only because of the valve seals. The gap between the valve and the guide is very small. Also, the oil in the valve cover is not pressurized, so it's relying on gravity and vacuum to get sucked into the cylinders. On top of this, I find it had to imagine more than one or two seals going bad.

On our cars, are the valve stems and seals submerged in oil underneath the valve cover?
I know on many of the previous vehicles I've owned and had to do valve seals, they were submerged but on the N54 I'd imagine they were as well..

Luckily I found a Bentley Manual free online so I'm gonna skim through it and see what kind of job this is..
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Default 01-12-2016, 08:25 PM

Thanks for updating.


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Default 01-13-2016, 07:12 AM

Glad you finally found your issue!!! At least someone is going to completely get this smoking BS taken care of!!


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BeastMode335i BeastMode335i is offline
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Default 01-13-2016, 08:08 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smacc83
Thanks for updating.
You're welcome, I'm going to meet the Master Tech in an hour to check out my car and get the full rundown..

Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonBeemah
Glad you finally found your issue!!! At least someone is going to completely get this smoking BS taken care of!!
Thanks Beemah, I'll post back with results after my conversation with the Service Manager and Master Tech at 11am..
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