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Question Meth usage basic qns - 07-16-2018, 09:08 AM

Finally finished putting in the meth kit and all appears well, but before turning on the meth in Map 7, I wanted to ask a couple of basic questions please -

1) What's the recommended meth/water ratio for the default setting (40 additive)? Are the curves in the following (really old) post based on 100% meth or something else? http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22272

2) is it normal to see a default flow reading of 66 (jumps up to 100 at WOT) on non-meth maps? I don't have any fluid in the system yet and zero pump pressure, so I expected a much lower flow reading but maybe this is normal for non-meth maps? I observed this on Map 6.

3) is there a post detailing "progressive safety" (option 4) for Meth Safety mode?

If the best place for these qns is the support area lmk and I'll repost it, thanks!


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Default 07-16-2018, 03:52 PM

Most of the time you want to leave the defaults for meth safety and trigger mode. Start off with the basics until you understand how the methanol works etc.

Start off with 50/50 mix water/meth and start with a lower additive like 30.

Get a log on map 7 with that and we can start.


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Default 07-18-2018, 07:47 AM

Cool, I'll try the conservative approach here in a couple days and post logs. BTW, did you guys stop sending bungs with the B58 chargepipe adapter? It says "comes with dual 1/8 inch NPT bungs" in the product description on the site. What I got was the adapter and a pair of brass elbows, so I screwed the CM nozzles directly into the chargepipe adapter and the other end of the nozzles to the elbows, then from the elbows to the meth line. Does that match what you expect?

Also, FYI, the nozzles I got did not have small o-rings. Is that a newer change to the product?


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Default 07-18-2018, 08:29 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterYous
Cool, I'll try the conservative approach here in a couple days and post logs. BTW, did you guys stop sending bungs with the B58 chargepipe adapter? It says "comes with dual 1/8 inch NPT bungs" in the product description on the site. What I got was the adapter and a pair of brass elbows, so I screwed the CM nozzles directly into the chargepipe adapter and the other end of the nozzles to the elbows, then from the elbows to the meth line. Does that match what you expect?

Also, FYI, the nozzles I got did not have small o-rings. Is that a newer change to the product?
The dual 1/8" NPT bungs are holes on the spacer.

The nozzles will need to go directly to the spacer, then the brass elbow, then the holder to the meth line. Check the photo attached.

Some nozzles are still not in the new production yet, what you have is perfectly fine.
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Default 07-18-2018, 09:37 AM

Perfect, that's exactly what I did. Logs coming soon.


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Default 07-21-2018, 04:59 PM

Thanks for all the tips on the meth kit over the last long while and sorry about the delay in logs. I am having a meth signal problem and posted in the support area to get help. Most everything seems ok other than consistently high signal readings even when there’s no fluid present in the system. Once we sort that out I’ll start adding meth and logging.


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Default 08-20-2018, 08:09 AM

I am finally ready to share some meth logs! There are two here, the one labeled "METH2" has a couple of long runs interspersed with some short ones, so please look through the whole thing.

base settings:

My additive is only 30, and I'm using a 50/50 mix of H20 and meth. I know there's room to add more meth to correct any octane issues, but wanted to start out conservatively. Using Map 7. Min RPM is 2k, Max RPM is redline (7k). Min flow boost is 8.9 and I should also mention there are about 2 gallons of E85 in the tank, to raise octane a tad.

observations:
  • The car feels great on Map 7. It is REALLY fast now.
  • I did a 0-60 in around what I think was 4.1-4.2 seconds. It might have even been faster, my measurement was not set up perfectly. This is definitely a personal best. Note this is a manual, so the base 0-60 is a little worse than the automatic, so my number is good.
  • I can now EASILY hit 18 PSI and I am sure there is room for more given the relatively few timing drops and only 50% meth. In fact the car is hitting the targets quickly, and then I notice the target moves up even more and the car continues to build boost. I have not been able to lay on the pedal long enough to see if I can crack 19.

This stuff is pretty powerful.
Attached Files
File Type: csv 180820_0943_METH2.csv (69.2 KB, 29 views)
File Type: csv 180818_1725_METH1.csv (30.6 KB, 26 views)


2017 F23/M240i Convertible (B58) / 6MT / FF Wires / EWG Wires / BMS Air Intake / Stock Exhaust / BMS Meth (50%) / 93 Octane

Last edited by MasterYous; 08-20-2018 at 08:14 AM..
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Default 08-20-2018, 09:59 AM

Looks really good, raise the additive a bit and lower open loop to 60.
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Default 08-20-2018, 11:09 AM

I didn't know FOL applied to Map 7, just thought it was 6... will do as you suggested.

Also can you explain how the JB4 IAT value should be interpreted? I read Russell's old thread but it doesn't seem to make sense any more... I see values in the 10.5-11 range pre-meth and 9-9.5 range post meth but that can't be degrees above ambient, right? Degrees above ambient should be much higher.

So - what should that value do when meth is flowing, what should it do as boost builds up, etc? I would love to compare it to pre-meth and see some evidence of cooling.

Thanks!


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Default 08-21-2018, 01:37 PM

I set FOL to 60 and I started getting hesitation/stuttering - similar to what Bullitt and others reported. I dunno, it could be because I have E85 mixed in? Anyway I set it to 65 and so far things are ok. Here's a log with the FOL at 65 and additive at 40... cracked the 19 psi threshold as expected. I think there's still more room, even.... but you experts will be able to interpret timing values better than I can.

Also, any thought on the IAT value in the log? Am I supposed to multiply by 10 to get the real value?
Attached Files
File Type: csv 180821_1608_METH_FOL65.csv (14.3 KB, 28 views)


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Default 08-21-2018, 02:06 PM

Looks really good to me, leave the FOL at 65. Raise FF value to 85 and get another log for me.
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Default 08-22-2018, 07:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Payam @ BMS
Looks really good to me, leave the FOL at 65. Raise FF value to 85 and get another log for me.
FOL 65 with FF 80 was undriveable. Tons of hesitation then I got two limp mode codes and the JB4 kept resetting to Map 1. I even turned off JB4 features (by choosing Map 0) and it kept resetting back to Map 1.

So I set FOL to 70. It's still stuttering at WOT, not as much as 65, but not a smooth experience. The power is there (close to 20 psi). You can check the log below - I attribute the hesitation to what looks like throttle closures, but I'm not sure.

I'm going to set FOL back to 75 and FF to 80 and log again for you. Let me know what you see in this log here when you get a chance!
Attached Files
File Type: csv 180822_2120_METH_FOL70.csv (44.5 KB, 25 views)


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Default 08-22-2018, 07:51 PM

It looks like misfire DME BT pulls down. This is with dual cm 5? Got any other logs?
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Default 08-22-2018, 08:15 PM

Thanks. This all started happening with FOL 60 or 65. I did have some other logs and posted them, but they were at FOL 75 and you said they looked pretty good, so this seems related? I am using dual CM7s.

I will make more logs tomorrow with the FOL @ 75 and the FF at 80.


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Default 08-23-2018, 07:27 AM

Here's two more logs. One on Map 7 (Meth) - even with FOL 75 I'm now getting the stuttering, so maybe you're right? This hadn't happened the first week so I'm very confused as to why all of a sudden?

A second log with FOL 65 on Map 6 (No Meth) seems not to cause stuttering.

Neither of these logs contains super long runs, but hopefully enough to see that the problem occurs or doesn't...

Do I need to switch nozzles? Do nozzles have a "break in" period, where now they possibly spray a little more? Problem with atomization?

Thank you again...

EDIT - another log added with couple good runs, FOL 65, Map 7, meth flowing. No stutters this time. I'm officially lost...
Attached Files
File Type: csv 180823_0939_METH_FOL75.csv (8.8 KB, 27 views)
File Type: csv 180823_0957_MAP6_FOL65.csv (31.4 KB, 26 views)
File Type: csv 180823_1940_METH_FOL65_NO_STUTTER.csv (39.1 KB, 25 views)


2017 F23/M240i Convertible (B58) / 6MT / FF Wires / EWG Wires / BMS Air Intake / Stock Exhaust / BMS Meth (50%) / 93 Octane

Last edited by MasterYous; 08-23-2018 at 07:43 PM.. Reason: Added third log
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Default 09-01-2018, 09:42 AM

Are you guys able to run the meth lines from under the car near the fuel lines?


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Default 09-01-2018, 09:07 PM

There is probably a DIY in the forum of someone doing just that. You can run the line inside or out. Depends on your preferences and safety considerations.


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Default 09-10-2018, 03:52 AM

Hi guys . I need some help .
Installed jb4 and methanol kit .
On map 3 everything perfect and run like a hell, but on map 7 with Methanol something wrong , several times the car shows a power drivetrain error and needs to stop the car and restart.
Any have any idea why shows the error on power drivetrain . At bmw page the code errors it’s “excessive acceleration “ .... so .
Boost additive: 40
Signal scaling:60
Min flow boost: 11.4
I’m use methanol 100% at tank.
Thanks again
Victor


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Default Help map 7 bmw 440 b58 - 09-10-2018, 03:55 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Payam @ BMS
Looks really good, raise the additive a bit and lower open loop to 60.
Hi guys . I need some help .
Installed jb4 and methanol kit .
On map 3 everything perfect and run like a hell, but on map 7 with Methanol something wrong , several times the car shows a power drivetrain error and needs to stop the car and restart.
Any have any idea why shows the error on power drivetrain . At bmw page the code errors it’s “excessive acceleration “ .... so .
Boost additive: 40
Signal scaling:60
Min flow boost: 11.4
I’m use methanol 100% at tank.
Thanks again
Victor
victorwilmer@hotmail.com


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Default 09-10-2018, 08:22 AM

Got any logs?


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Default 09-19-2018, 06:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterYous
Finally finished putting in the meth kit and all appears well, but before turning on the meth in Map 7, I wanted to ask a couple of basic questions please -

1) What's the recommended meth/water ratio for the default setting (40 additive)? Are the curves in the following (really old) post based on 100% meth or something else? http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22272

2) is it normal to see a default flow reading of 66 (jumps up to 100 at WOT) on non-meth maps? I don't have any fluid in the system yet and zero pump pressure, so I expected a much lower flow reading but maybe this is normal for non-meth maps? I observed this on Map 6.

3) is there a post detailing "progressive safety" (option 4) for Meth Safety mode?

If the best place for these qns is the support area lmk and I'll repost it, thanks!
Did you ever get answers to the above? The meth thread is very old, like you said. Thanks.


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Default 09-19-2018, 07:09 PM

I did. 1) i would stick with 50/50 on the factory turbo and exhaust. Some people insist on 100% meth but it may actually hurt more than help. Start 50/50 and move up if your logs really show octane issues. The curves in the old thread were at 50/50. 2) no - this was caused by a bad JB4 board. BMS sent a new one. Normal flow is 100 only while at WOT and 0 otherwise (not spraying meth). Anything less than 60 while spraying at WOT means you’re either low on meth, or air in the system. 3) no one could point to one but very very few people use 4 on meth safety mode.


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Default 09-21-2018, 06:59 AM

For me, with my setup, 93 octane only, map3 appears best for boost, quickness and best timing. I am tempted to add water with trace alcohol, primarily to improve mileage, by getting IAT down and providing some increase in timing advance. Power is already plenty for me.

I need to do more research, but am wondering if the progressive setting in the meth kit will go low enough, say 1 lb boost start and then add progressively to max. I plan to calc the amount of water needed to just drop the IAT by 20F. I may need the smallest nozzles but not sure yet.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks,

Alex


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Default Almost but not quite - 10-06-2018, 04:22 AM

Running with 70/30 meth and e30, slightly bellow target until 4-5 gear
Anything i can adjust?
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Default 10-08-2018, 08:04 AM

Looks very strong! Raise FF to 35 and that should help get closer to target. All parameters are where they should be.
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