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gxn3r0 gxn3r0 is offline
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Default 10-16-2021, 06:19 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
We'll post some addl info on our intake after we've done the testing. Since a lot of competitive systems are being made now no reason to share our design at this point.
🤯 What else are you working on?!
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Turki Turki is offline
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Default 10-16-2021, 01:41 PM

Hi... is there anyway i can use jb4 for better launch? I mean something like a launch control by maybe lowering boost pressure at launch? Can it even lower boost pressure under the factory boost? I have such slippery roads where i live and it sucks, i can't even roll from 40kmph it slips like crazy!
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Terry @ BMS's Avatar
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Default 10-16-2021, 02:46 PM

Sure you can use boost by gear to lower boost in 1st if you're spinning. Try 3psi to start.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Turki Turki is offline
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Default 10-16-2021, 02:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Sure you can use boost by gear to lower boost in 1st if you're spinning. Try 3psi to start.
I'll try it, thanks!
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Djfourmonie Djfourmonie is offline
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Default Yesterday, 09:55 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JGamb
I would hope Mazda put some beefy forged rods in there for such a long stroke and low RPM max torque application.

The MZR rods (2.3L 9.5:1 CR) would handle about ~400wtq and were only made for 280 crank tq.
This isn't NASCAR, Pro Stock or F1, yet only the tuner space yammers about rod length and rod ratios.

The only thing worse is the prattle about down *****, intakes and crackle tunes.


2020 Kia Forte GT
6 Speed Manual
JB4+Bluetooth Connect
Burger Motorsports Water Methanol (45/55 mix)
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13.77@103
Map 7, E30+WMI, Hoosier Drag Radials
E85 Station Locator (US Only)
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cuzed2 cuzed2 is offline
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Default Yesterday, 09:57 AM

Mixed up and tested my first tank of E30 as follows:

Ran a previous tank of 93 down to 1/4, then added 3.5 gal of E85 and then topped off the tank with 93.

With this new mix I ran a comparison MAP2 1/4 mile run, and found my performance actually dropped from 14.23@100.5mph on 93 octane >> down to 14.46@98.71 on E30?

Also my seat of the pants dyno told me something was being "pulsed or pulled back" at higher RPM nearing the end of the E30 1/4 mile run!

I thought I had read somewhere on here (or perhaps I imagined it), that with an E30 mix I might want to make sure I had the latest JB4 version uploaded (with fuel trims at 30 instead of 25) ??
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JGamb JGamb is offline
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Default Yesterday, 10:48 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuzed2
Mixed up and tested my first tank of E30 as follows:

Ran a previous tank of 93 down to 1/4, then added 3.5 gal of E85 and then topped off the tank with 93.

With this new mix I ran a comparison MAP2 1/4 mile run, and found my performance actually dropped from 14.23@100.5mph on 93 octane >> down to 14.46@98.71 on E30?

Also my seat of the pants dyno told me something was being "pulsed or pulled back" at higher RPM nearing the end of the E30 1/4 mile run!

I thought I had read somewhere on here (or perhaps I imagined it), that with an E30 mix I might want to make sure I had the latest JB4 version uploaded (with fuel trims at 30 instead of 25) ??
Chemically, this makes perfectly good sense. Gasoline has a lower specific gravity and more energy density. The only advantage of E30 is greater octane, which in theory would allow for greater spark advance - getting nearer to MBT, or the point where advancing becomes detonation due to the peak of the stroke. Getting as close as possible to MBT yields significantly more power, but 93 octane fuel would combust from the pressure (knock) prematurely.

Long story short, if the timing isn't getting advanced, you're LOSING power because of less energy in your fuel.

If the ECU doesn't hunt for knock limitations beyond OEM 93 octane maps, and the JB4 cannot change spark advance, E30 is basically useless for us until we can utilize a real ECU editor.
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cuzed2 cuzed2 is offline
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Default Yesterday, 04:25 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JGamb
Chemically, this makes perfectly good sense. Gasoline has a lower specific gravity and more energy density. The only advantage of E30 is greater octane, which in theory would allow for greater spark advance - getting nearer to MBT, or the point where advancing becomes detonation due to the peak of the stroke. Getting as close as possible to MBT yields significantly more power, but 93 octane fuel would combust from the pressure (knock) prematurely.

Long story short, if the timing isn't getting advanced, you're LOSING power because of less energy in your fuel.

If the ECU doesn't hunt for knock limitations beyond OEM 93 octane maps, and the JB4 cannot change spark advance, E30 is basically useless for us until we can utilize a real ECU editor.
@JGamb - Thanks for the additional explanation!

As for the first part; I understand the differences with "Corn Squeezin's", less energy per volume than gasoline, also why e85 returns lower mpg.

As for he 2nd part I was hoping that between the Car's ECU and the JB4 that, their might have been some detection/compensation that would take advantage of the higher octane
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JGamb JGamb is offline
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Default Yesterday, 05:01 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuzed2
@JGamb - Thanks for the additional explanation!

As for the first part; I understand the differences with "Corn Squeezin's", less energy per volume than gasoline, also why e85 returns lower mpg.

As for he 2nd part I was hoping that between the Car's ECU and the JB4 that, their might have been some detection/compensation that would take advantage of the higher octane
I ran this same experiment a few weeks back... and unfortunately it yielded the same results. The ECU is not advancing timing to take advantage of greater than 93 oct specified spark advance tables. There is no gain to be had. For now.
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Terry @ BMS's Avatar
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Default Yesterday, 05:39 PM

If you're not pulling timing due to insufficient octane adding octane isn't going to improve performance...


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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(#636)
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JGamb JGamb is offline
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Default Yesterday, 06:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
If you're not pulling timing due to insufficient octane adding octane isn't going to improve performance...
Right.. some of us had a pipe dream that adding octane would entice the ECU to explore higher boundaries and adjust for that condition. Not the case. I don't mean to be derogatory, but the JB4 is basically performing the same task a $20 manual boost controller performed on my '91 Eagle Talon TSi.
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(#637)
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cuzed2 cuzed2 is offline
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Default Today, 06:07 AM

@JGamb, Terry,

Thank you for the added discussion above. This M3T is my first boosted car and these points contribute to my understanding and education.

On a separate note; I sent logs to Terry regarding the E30 - 1/4 mile pull mentioned in my original post, he has since responded with an observation and several reccomendations. Thanks Terry !
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Default Today, 09:45 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JGamb
Right.. some of us had a pipe dream that adding octane would entice the ECU to explore higher boundaries and adjust for that condition. Not the case. I don't mean to be derogatory, but the JB4 is basically performing the same task a $20 manual boost controller performed on my '91 Eagle Talon TSi.
$20? What a rip off! Just plumb in a $0.25 vacuum tee in the wastegate pressure line and raise your boost for free! A lot has changed since the 90s lol.

In terms of getting timing values up on higher octane fuel it's something we're working on. There are some options there as timing is mapped out on ECU observed load, intake temps, and other factors. I've also added a JB4 connection for the electronic wastegate control on our development car and are also trying to balance the potential benefits there on higher octane.

Keep in mind Mazda is a small market for us so things happen a little slower than some of our other larger platforms but we continue to work on it and make progress.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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(#639)
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Mazda3turbskie Mazda3turbskie is offline
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Default Today, 11:23 AM

Do you think in the future it will be possible to up the power more on 91 Oct? Sadly in Canada 93 just isn't an option except for 3 provinces... Looks like it only makes around 10 more whp, and 30wtq but on 93 it jumps almost 40 who and 70wtq.. just crazy gains comparatively
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Default Today, 12:11 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda3turbskie
Do you think in the future it will be possible to up the power more on 91 Oct? Sadly in Canada 93 just isn't an option except for 3 provinces... Looks like it only makes around 10 more whp, and 30wtq but on 93 it jumps almost 40 who and 70wtq.. just crazy gains comparatively
The platform isn't all that octane dependent so far. You can make the same 40whp gain on 91 or 93 octane, although higher octane does make adding power a lot easier.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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(#641)
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Mazda3turbskie Mazda3turbskie is offline
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Default Today, 12:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
The platform isn't all that octane dependent so far. You can make the same 40whp gain on 91 or 93 octane, although higher octane does make adding power a lot easier.
Damn it Terry!! Was trying to convince myself wasn't worth it for a 10hp gain but if I can run the map2 on 91 and go up by 40.. You've got yourself another customer "insert take my money meme"
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Default Today, 12:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda3turbskie
Damn it Terry!! Was trying to convince myself wasn't worth it for a 10hp gain but if I can run the map2 on 91 and go up by 40.. You've got yourself another customer "insert take my money meme"
We picked up around 20whp peak on map1 and around 30whp peak on map2, but in areas of the curve had 50whp+ gains. And I think there is plenty more power waiting to be unlocked once we figure out a few more things on this end.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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(#643)
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Mazda3turbskie Mazda3turbskie is offline
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Default Today, 12:53 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
We picked up around 20whp peak on map1 and around 30whp peak on map2, but in areas of the curve had 50whp+ gains. And I think there is plenty more power waiting to be unlocked once we figure out a few more things on this end.
Awesome, was just checking as some people were saying there wasn't a huge difference on 91 but with 93 a massive one, I had a 2010 e92 335i xdrive and sadly I went with Cobb at first (never again), eventually went jb4/MHD, but was able to have insane gains still on 91. Just hoping that I can hit what the dynograph on the first page shows on 91 Oct, or is that the difference between stock 91 Oct and map 2 on 93? If so, is there one that shows the map for 91 Oct? I'm also going to wait for your guys release on an intake as well rather than get the corksport which I initially intended on doing. Try to stick pure JB4/BMS.
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Default Today, 01:10 PM

Yes you guys will like our intake options I'm sure.

On the tuning end it's still early days so we'll see. The current maps are a great start but there is plenty of room for improvement.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Mazda3turbskie Mazda3turbskie is offline
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Default Today, 01:17 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
JB4 Dyno testing:


JB4 dragy testing:
Attachment 103912 Attachment 103913
Apologize for the bunch of questions; my last question here.

In this dyno, is map2 on 93 oct? And is the stock base 91 just the stock car mapping? And then map2 is 93? So 91 Oct (map1) would probably be somewhere in between the two graphs?
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Default Today, 01:51 PM

As I recall baseline there is on 91 and the map2 run is on 93 octane equivalent. Since the octane isn't doing much 91 map2 isn't going to be much different than 93 octane map2.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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