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paradoxical3 paradoxical3 is offline
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Default Anyone running 500whp dead-nuts road course reliable? - 09-14-2018, 08:56 PM

I am in a frustrating place with my M2. Pump gas, FBO, and JB4 the car does not have enough power for the track. I am tired of gaining on cars in corners only to be destroyed down the back straight.

With e85, even with 2.5 gallons my car goes into limp mode with lean fuel condition. I have a pretty weak fuel system apparently.

I am debating moving to a larger turbo with port injection and a new LPFP kit, but I am sort of doubting these things are actually reliable on the road course. I am in instructor so run in pretty quick groups, and often my car is shared with students so it will do 60min straight of track time.

Does anyone actually run a 100% e85 setup with 500whp with port injection and upgraded turbo that is reliable on track? Or are people just building these for the street?

I can't even get JB4 map 1 to last on track without throwing a limp mode on straight 93 octane, so forgive me if I am skeptical. Debating between doing this or just dumping the M2 entirely and going with a GTR or Porsche.
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JacquesN55 JacquesN55 is offline
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Default 09-14-2018, 10:28 PM

Speak to Pure turbos. They have client with m2 with pure stage 2 runing on track.


2011 135 n55 DCT RHD, MAMBA GTX3576R (5962) single turbo kit. Jb4 FBO. METH KIT WITH cm7 and cm4
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M-terkait M-terkait is offline
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Default 09-15-2018, 03:48 AM

I've not run my car on a track yet, but I the use of a manifold with ports to reduce the number of gaskets instead of running a spacer for PI.

Are you sure it's fuel, not oil temps, as far as I know, you cannot see the oil temp as there is no gauge on the M2.

problem is with PI you need a controller & stage2 LPFP to reach 500whp.
with M3/M4 you can do it with just flash and be safe on 93octane.

I personally find Porsches a bit harder to drive than my BMW, or maybe im not used to light front cars. good luck anyways



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paradoxical3 paradoxical3 is offline
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Default 09-15-2018, 05:52 AM

Yes, definitely not oil temp. I have the entire CSF cooling suite and oil temps are solid on track.
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Lowon Lowon is offline
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Default 09-15-2018, 02:03 PM

Talk to tyspeed guy is a stand up dude developing crazy solutions for the m2. He has a shop too in NJ, and races his track spec m2, it's built club racer style.


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JacquesN55 JacquesN55 is offline
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Default 09-16-2018, 05:06 AM

Thats the guy i spoke about


2011 135 n55 DCT RHD, MAMBA GTX3576R (5962) single turbo kit. Jb4 FBO. METH KIT WITH cm7 and cm4
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Mernardi Mernardi is offline
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Default 09-19-2018, 12:28 PM

I track my car. DCT 135i PS2 on Wedge E30 tune. Only fueling upgrade is a LPFP. I run about 20 PSI of boost usually.

It's been reliable for almost 3 years. Did have to use the M4 flywheel once we got power dialed in to get rid of the phantom knock in 4th gear. Otherwise she runs pretty great. Sticks like glue and people are always amazed at how fast my car is.
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Lowon Lowon is offline
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Default 09-19-2018, 03:12 PM

The thing is if you're a really advanced driver, pushing long hard sessions 30+ mins cooling even when upgraded isn't sufficient. Tyspeed has done something really unique and managed to get the temps on the m2 to reasonable levels even with hard sessions.


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houtan houtan is offline
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Default 09-19-2018, 04:27 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mernardi
I track my car. DCT 135i PS2 on Wedge E30 tune. Only fueling upgrade is a LPFP. I run about 20 PSI of boost usually.

It's been reliable for almost 3 years. Did have to use the M4 flywheel once we got power dialed in to get rid of the phantom knock in 4th gear. Otherwise she runs pretty great. Sticks like glue and people are always amazed at how fast my car is.
What are you running for cooling mods and what conditions/duration are you running?
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Gerard Gerard is offline
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Default 10-08-2018, 04:13 PM

You might not want to hear this but have you considered the M2c?

We know that s55 is the more track ready engine. Don't need to mess with all that damn port injection stuff.

...I know I've considered trading in my N55 M2.
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Mernardi Mernardi is offline
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Default 10-08-2018, 04:45 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by houtan
What are you running for cooling mods and what conditions/duration are you running?
VRSF 7 inch FMIC, custom brake ducting, BMS sport oil cooler valve. That's it for aftermarket cooling. E30 PS2 at 20 PSI.

My home track is near Chicago so I get a varied amount of weather. I've been on course at 90+ degrees before. Typically 20 minute sessions. Oil never goes above 240. IATs will slowly creep up, but never above 15-20 degrees over ambient. This is on a fairly technical course (Autobahn Country Club - full course). 2 long straights, but a lot of slower speeds with how many corners there are. I monitor nonstop via MHD.

I've never overheated the car in anyway on track, just when my water pump failed on the highway lol.
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T_H_O_M_A_S T_H_O_M_A_S is offline
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Default 10-08-2018, 06:36 PM

N55 1 HDP5
S55 2 HDP5's
there's your weak fuel system
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Default 10-08-2018, 08:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerard
You might not want to hear this but have you considered the M2c?

We know that s55 is the more track ready engine. Don't need to mess with all that damn port injection stuff.

...I know I've considered trading in my N55 M2.
It is, but if you're really hard core into tracking the cost to maintain the s55 on the track is stupid high imo. New heat exchanger every year which costs 2-3X more than an intercooler, bottom mounted oil cooler that if damaged equates to catastrophic engine failure. Crank hub issues, two turbos meaning more can go wrong, two down ***** to replace if you go off track, overall alot more expensive to up keep. I thought about the m2C but it'll just mean I pay more to do the exact samething. I still need to upgrade the brakes because the dust seals suck imo and probably will get roasted on the track, seats aren't supportive enough, suspension upgrades, cooling etc. I only need 450-500whp so the n55 is fine, anymore than that and the chassis and turbo lag becomes a limiter imo.

Fuelling is easily solved on the n55 now, we even have after market support for hpfp upgrades.


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Default 10-08-2018, 08:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by T_H_O_M_A_S
N55 1 HDP5
S55 2 HDP5's
there's your weak fuel system
We've all known that for a very very long time

But now there are hpfp upgrades.


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Mernardi Mernardi is offline
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Default 10-09-2018, 06:02 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowon
It is, but if you're really hard core into tracking the cost to maintain the s55 on the track is stupid high imo. New heat exchanger every year which costs 2-3X more than an intercooler, bottom mounted oil cooler that if damaged equates to catastrophic engine failure. Crank hub issues, two turbos meaning more can go wrong, two down ***** to replace if you go off track, overall alot more expensive to up keep. I thought about the m2C but it'll just mean I pay more to do the exact samething. I still need to upgrade the brakes because the dust seals suck imo and probably will get roasted on the track, seats aren't supportive enough, suspension upgrades, cooling etc. I only need 450-500whp so the n55 is fine, anymore than that and the chassis and turbo lag becomes a limiter imo.

Fuelling is easily solved on the n55 now, we even have after market support for hpfp upgrades.
OP is an instructor so he may be able to properly utilize 500+ whp on track. IMO though, most people can't. I'm perfectly happy at 500~ whp as well, especially as the 135i is limited on tire size.

The S55 is obviously the superior engine, but I agree with every point you made. All comes down to what people have $ for lol.
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Default 10-09-2018, 08:19 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mernardi
OP is an instructor so he may be able to properly utilize 500+ whp on track. IMO though, most people can't. I'm perfectly happy at 500~ whp as well, especially as the 135i is limited on tire size.

The S55 is obviously the superior engine, but I agree with every point you made. All comes down to what people have $ for lol.
I've been doing time attack for a long time with alot of different cars, so I'd assume I would know what I'm talking about.

Yeah I heard he was an instructor, but it doesn't change the fact that the larger after market turbos have waste gate controlling issues and even more turbo lag. Eventually boost becomes and on/off at high rpm phenomenon and it upsets the chassis Everytime you go on boost resulting in an even slower lap time. My sti was awd with 850awhp+, on R comps and drag radials once boost kicked in post corner the car would fish tail and I couldn't get on the gas until the car was perfectly straight. So imo if you wanted over 550whp the chassis just can't stuff in larger enough rubber to put it down reliably, next would be the turbo lag. I suppose a wide body kit and s55 twins would solve this, but now aerodynamics are all messed up and you're adding huge amounts of drag.


Yup the s55 is way more advanced, but I see zero reason to upgrade if I never push past 500whp. I do time attack not drag racing or half miles, so no need to push for that type of engine, when it makes the m2c cost 10k more and I still have to upgrade all the same parts. More parts don't equate to a faster laptime.

What I feel that I am fighting is a war on weight, m2C adds on more weight while I keep struggling to pull it off.


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Last edited by Lowon; 10-09-2018 at 08:28 AM..
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Mernardi Mernardi is offline
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Default 10-09-2018, 08:52 AM

I completely agree with you. I love the PS2. Virtually lag free, and I don't drag race either. 500whp with a great powerband is amazing on track.

The S55 with upgraded twins in an M2C would be nice if it could put down the power and not suffer from larger turbo lag. I would take an M2c if offered haha.
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Default 10-09-2018, 12:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mernardi
I completely agree with you. I love the PS2. Virtually lag free, and I don't drag race either. 500whp with a great powerband is amazing on track.

The S55 with upgraded twins in an M2C would be nice if it could put down the power and not suffer from larger turbo lag. I would take an M2c if offered haha.
I find the S55 is alot less laggier than equivalent power producing larger stage 3 turbos on the n55. Only issue is I don't feel the chassis can take over 5XXWhp range, it gets too tail happy.

I dropped my m2C deposit because we have a surplus of m2c's at my dealership, I'm probably going to look at the csl or very likely just keep my m2. For all out track performance I just use my RS.


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bNks334 bNks334 is offline
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Default 10-09-2018, 01:08 PM

I agree with the above. 400-450whp and ~3300lbs will blow the doors off 99% of what you see at a typical track day. I can't imagine 500+ being very easy to put down effectively.

Pirelli world challenge 235iR race cars don't need more power than stock to run several seconds faster than any E9x/E8x I've seen at the track :/ Or, any car for that matter. I've never seen fully gutted "club racers" run 56.xx seconds at Limerock, but a relatively lightly modded 235iR can.

Last edited by bNks334; 10-09-2018 at 01:17 PM..
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Default 10-09-2018, 01:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bNks334
I agree with the above. 400-450whp and ~3300lbs will blow the doors off 99% of what you see at a typical track day. I can't imagine 500+ being very easy to put down effectively.

Pirelli world challenge 235iR race cars don't need more power than stock to run several seconds faster than any E9x/E8x I've seen at the track :/ Or, any car for that matter. I've never seen fully gutted "club racers" run 56.xx seconds at Limerock, but a relatively lightly modded 235iR can.
Take a look at tyspeed's m2 it's club racer spec fully gutted, and he just placed 1st overall in his class at walkins glen iirc.

Only cars that I've seen out down 500whp+ good are Porsche gt models.


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Gerard Gerard is offline
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Default 10-09-2018, 02:58 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowon
It is, but if you're really hard core into tracking the cost to maintain the s55 on the track is stupid high imo. New heat exchanger every year which costs 2-3X more than an intercooler, bottom mounted oil cooler that if damaged equates to catastrophic engine failure. Crank hub issues, two turbos meaning more can go wrong, two down ***** to replace if you go off track, overall alot more expensive to up keep. I thought about the m2C but it'll just mean I pay more to do the exact samething. I still need to upgrade the brakes because the dust seals suck imo and probably will get roasted on the track, seats aren't supportive enough, suspension upgrades, cooling etc. I only need 450-500whp so the n55 is fine, anymore than that and the chassis and turbo lag becomes a limiter imo.

Fuelling is easily solved on the n55 now, we even have after market support for hpfp upgrades.

I agree with you on all these points...which is the reason I backed out of my allocation as well lol.

Started looking at all the pricing for parts for the s55...I like having an M car with out the M tax.

And honestly...not sure if I can ever get use to having a damn near identical car sound so different to my current one.

Sorta weird me out lol:
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Default 10-09-2018, 03:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerard
I agree with you on all these points...which is the reason I backed out of my allocation as well lol.

Started looking at all the pricing for parts for the s55...I like having an M car with out the M tax.

And honestly...not sure if I can ever get use to having a damn near identical car sound so different to my current one.

Sorta weird me out lol:
Lol +10000 on the m car tax. BMWs already have a BMW tax, an m tax is extra.


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bNks334 bNks334 is offline
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Default 10-09-2018, 05:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowon
Take a look at tyspeed's m2 it's club racer spec fully gutted, and he just placed 1st overall in his class at walkins glen iirc.

Only cars that I've seen out down 500whp+ good are Porsche gt models.
My point was more that more power isnt necessarily going to make the car all that much faster.

Ewg n55 is a bit underpowered for sure. Overspinning the stock turbo to make 360whp at redline makes a ton of heat too. If you lift at all you lose boost and the turbo doesn't have the size to rebuild boost at 6k rpms. Average whp is probably closer to 300whp on a roadcourse. It takes a lot of relearning to shift early and Downshift a lot to stay in the power. Dct paddels helps with that.

Ps2 seems to be the way to go... Make 400-430whp at redline on 93aki and ~60% wgdc. Iat should be lower and turbo should live a long time. You won't be getting passed up by much...
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Default 10-16-2018, 03:53 AM

My M235i N55 is FBO, 500+ hp with pure stage 2 turbo and wmi (jb4 + jb4 bef). I run aral (ron)102 pump fuel, boost is around 21-22psi which actually runs very good. BUT, street use. I'm sure that if tracking the car with this setup without proper cooling modification it will not last very long. My oil temp quickly rises to 255 after a few pulls, transmission temp quickly rises to 212. I don't abuse the car. If you would abuse the car on track with this modifcation and without cooling i'm sure it'll not last long.


2015 F22 M235i N55 EWG | M Performance | 18" VMR710 | Pure Stage 2 Turbo | Pure High Flow Inlet | XDI-35 HPFP | Fuel-It LPFP Stage 2 | Bootmod3 Cary Jordan Custom Tune | XHP Stage 1 Tune | GFB DV+ T9356 | N20 TMAP | NGK SILZKBR8D8S 0,5mm | Wagner DownP | Wagner EVO2 Performance Intercooler | VRSF Chargepipe | M Performance Exhaust | OS Giken Superlock
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Mernardi Mernardi is offline
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Default 10-16-2018, 12:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bulletrs
My M235i N55 is FBO, 500+ hp with pure stage 2 turbo and wmi (jb4 + jb4 bef). I run aral (ron)102 pump fuel, boost is around 21-22psi which actually runs very good. BUT, street use. I'm sure that if tracking the car with this setup without proper cooling modification it will not last very long. My oil temp quickly rises to 255 after a few pulls, transmission temp quickly rises to 212. I don't abuse the car. If you would abuse the car on track with this modifcation and without cooling i'm sure it'll not last long.
I run 20 PSI with no meth or PI on my PS2 135i. Just E30 using a stage 2 LPFP, 7inch IC, and oil cooler valve. WGDC is right around 80%. I have had 0 issues on track in the last 3 years. I personally don't trust external controllers with my engine so I will not do meth or PI. I may add the CSF radiator and look into additional oil/trans coolers if I decide to do more than 20 min sessions. Right now, my car runs great.

My biggest limiting factors on better lap times are tire size and seat time. I plan on getting the N5X front fenders, but don't really want to cut up the rears. I also may switch from the BMS intake to the Injen intake as I have heard on the facebook group that it can lower WGDC by quite a bit.
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