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Default 535i WG Rattle Fix, now surging boost - 01-07-2019, 10:08 AM

Consolidated for log review. Starting with sticky regarding little to no boost.

Recently performed VTT WG Fix and installed VRSF OEM Location Inlets and no name dpipes. Car was sluggish with rattling wastegates, now has an odd boost surging.

I'm hearing new sounds in the intake area. On boost build up, I hear a fluttering, and you can see the boost surge in the video (trying to figure out how to file share 30 mb?). It sounds like a chirping on and off through the intake or the dv bleeding off on load. Never had inlets so I am not sure what it's supposed to sound like. Logs look like target vs actual is all over the place. I donít think it's surge because the throttle plate should be wide open, so I cant help but feel that it is a vacuum leak, shot boost solenoid, leaking dv's, or wastegates not seating properly. Are the dv's supposed to open and regulate pressure before lifting off gas, I thought bov's only open on lift which creates the whoosh. The car seems to hold boost once you're past the flutter, but the car really does not feel anywhere near as fast as it should. Flutters even on map 4. Feels slower than when it had rattling wastegates. Thanks in advance!
Attached Files
File Type: csv 190106_1408(1).csv (9.0 KB, 31 views)
File Type: csv 190106_1414(2).csv (12.1 KB, 29 views)

Last edited by nefariousminion; 01-08-2019 at 07:01 AM.. Reason: No reply, consolidated for log review
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Default 01-28-2019, 12:20 PM

Bump Please consider review.

Vacuum at solenoid was 20 at 60 DWP, 25 at 100 DWP.
Replaced Vacuum Lines & O Rings in CP
Installed new CP. Trying BOV tonight.

I cant tell if the chirping sound near the intakes is leaking DV's or wastegates not holding closed. Could be air blowing through DVs? Im VTA. Can anyone say if a leaking PCV or VCG could cause this? Vacuum pump failure?

Thank you in advance
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Default 01-28-2019, 02:39 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by nefariousminion
Consolidated for log review. Starting with sticky regarding little to no boost.

Recently performed VTT WG Fix and installed VRSF OEM Location Inlets and no name dpipes. Car was sluggish with rattling wastegates, now has an odd boost surging.

I'm hearing new sounds in the intake area. On boost build up, I hear a fluttering, and you can see the boost surge in the video (trying to figure out how to file share 30 mb?). It sounds like a chirping on and off through the intake or the dv bleeding off on load. Never had inlets so I am not sure what it's supposed to sound like. Logs look like target vs actual is all over the place. I donít think it's surge because the throttle plate should be wide open, so I cant help but feel that it is a vacuum leak, shot boost solenoid, leaking dv's, or wastegates not seating properly. Are the dv's supposed to open and regulate pressure before lifting off gas, I thought bov's only open on lift which creates the whoosh. The car seems to hold boost once you're past the flutter, but the car really does not feel anywhere near as fast as it should. Flutters even on map 4. Feels slower than when it had rattling wastegates. Thanks in advance!
FF is maxed at 150- I think your first assumption of vac leak is accurate.

Have u pressure tested the system yet?



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Default 01-29-2019, 08:14 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave @ BMS/Fuel-It!
FF is maxed at 150- I think your first assumption of vac leak is accurate.

Have u pressure tested the system yet?
Thank you, Dave. I have not had a chance to pressure test the charged side. I had some smoke on the passenger side this morning and I'm thinking 130k is well past due for VCG. BMS PCV ordered. Will report back after further diagnosis.
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Default 01-29-2019, 11:22 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by nefariousminion
Thank you, Dave. I have not had a chance to pressure test the charged side. I had some smoke on the passenger side this morning and I'm thinking 130k is well past due for VCG. BMS PCV ordered. Will report back after further diagnosis.
Sounds good to me

Here to help if needed



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Default 01-31-2019, 06:04 PM

Small update. Tried reading vacuum between solenoid and wastegates at WOT. Went from 20" at cruise/idle down to a consistent 9" with pedal to the floor. When I applied vacuum to the wastegates I could hear both of them seat nicely. So I think I'm running out of vacuum to the solenoids. Its odd to me that it holds 20" fine and then goes down. Will read vacuum between canisters and solenoids, followed by pump to canisters tomorrow. Any insight greatly appreciated.
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Default 02-16-2019, 08:59 PM

TTT I found a small tear in the charge pipe boot, but this did not fix my surging boost. I am definitely hearing the bov chirping under acceleration (like its opening and closing). Its a BV50 style with a plain spring. But it also made the same sound with vent to atmosphere dv's. Does anyone know why the bov would keep opening and closing under part throttle? I dont think I reset FF after the wastegate rattle fix, could this cause my issue? 1/4 hose barb i/m tap in the morning. Still trying... thanks in advance
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Default 02-16-2019, 09:03 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by nefariousminion
TTT I found a small tear in the charge pipe boot, but this did not fix my surging boost. I am definitely hearing the bov chirping under acceleration (like its opening and closing). Its a BV50 style with a plain spring. But it also made the same sound with vent to atmosphere dv's. Does anyone know why the bov would keep opening and closing under part throttle? I dont think I reset FF after the wastegate rattle fix, could this cause my issue? 1/4 hose barb i/m tap in the morning. Still trying... thanks in advance
Upgrade the vac line to the bov / tap.

If that doesnít solve it, may need a differnt bov spring - what brand bov is it? Did it come wirh differnt springs?



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Default 02-16-2019, 09:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave @ BMS/Fuel-It!
Upgrade the vac line to the bov / tap.

If that doesnít solve it, may need a differnt bov spring - what brand bov is it? Did it come wirh differnt springs?
Its a fleabay replica of the old Tial BV50. The spring it came with was very light, I put in a Tial 10 psi per the tial spring chart. It now feels that theres not enough spring pressure to hold the bov closed, but also too stiff because it blows off slowly. I will try upgrading the line, just baffled that it has the same issues with stock diverter valve setup. Thanks for quick reply!
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Default 02-17-2019, 09:27 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by nefariousminion
Its a fleabay replica of the old Tial BV50. The spring it came with was very light, I put in a Tial 10 psi per the tial spring chart. It now feels that theres not enough spring pressure to hold the bov closed, but also too stiff because it blows off slowly. I will try upgrading the line, just baffled that it has the same issues with stock diverter valve setup. Thanks for quick reply!
Give that a shot & letís see

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Default 03-16-2019, 08:11 AM

Hello hello, Finally pressure tested from outlet and found leaks at i/c connections and torn lower cp hose. Seems like the oem c clip isnt catching the inner lip of the ic joint, ive tried pushing it in a bit more with no luck. Welp CXRacing I/C is in. Thank you for guidance.

Anyone want a donation to remote in and get inpa to read my cable to delete airbag code? I coded injectors last year havent gotten it to work since. Thank you in advance!!
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Default 03-17-2019, 08:07 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by nefariousminion
Hello hello, Finally pressure tested from outlet and found leaks at i/c connections and torn lower cp hose. Seems like the oem c clip isnt catching the inner lip of the ic joint, ive tried pushing it in a bit more with no luck. Welp CXRacing I/C is in. Thank you for guidance.

Anyone want a donation to remote in and get inpa to read my cable to delete airbag code? I coded injectors last year havent gotten it to work since. Thank you in advance!!
Take a look at our Phoenix racing fmic too- great bang for buck & qualify / results

Link : BMS BMW N54 N55 Intercooler Upgrade | BurgerTuning.com



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Default 03-27-2019, 11:40 AM

Bumping my thread again- I have replaced everything from the outlet to the tb. I have set Maps 10, 11 and 12 to default which helped me hit ~ 12 lbs on map 1 at wot in gears 1-3, but I still have this very loud surging at anything less than wot or in higher gears.

Dave - thanks for replies, definitely helping wrap my head around it. I guess my questions would be 1 - since the JB4 learned up some values from when my wastegates were shot, I think they might cause issues now that I've fixed the wastegate bushings, so what values should I adjust down? (i.e i brought down ff from 150, and reset menus 10, 11 and 12 to default per e series jb4 thread.) How about PID Gain, etc... ?

and 2 - I want to update to the latest firmware but not sure if I can use the latest ISO firmware? I'm pretty sure I have a G5 board because I can read and delete codes etc, but not sure if I have to modify the board at all to go ISO? I've searched a bit but still unsure. Is there a latest firmware for those who dont want ISO?

Thank you in advance!!!
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Default 03-27-2019, 10:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by nefariousminion
Bumping my thread again- I have replaced everything from the outlet to the tb. I have set Maps 10, 11 and 12 to default which helped me hit ~ 12 lbs on map 1 at wot in gears 1-3, but I still have this very loud surging at anything less than wot or in higher gears.

Dave - thanks for replies, definitely helping wrap my head around it. I guess my questions would be 1 - since the JB4 learned up some values from when my wastegates were shot, I think they might cause issues now that I've fixed the wastegate bushings, so what values should I adjust down? (i.e i brought down ff from 150, and reset menus 10, 11 and 12 to default per e series jb4 thread.) How about PID Gain, etc... ?

and 2 - I want to update to the latest firmware but not sure if I can use the latest ISO firmware? I'm pretty sure I have a G5 board because I can read and delete codes etc, but not sure if I have to modify the board at all to go ISO? I've searched a bit but still unsure. Is there a latest firmware for those who dont want ISO?

Thank you in advance!!!
How old is your JB4 ?



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Default 03-28-2019, 08:07 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave @ BMS/Fuel-It!
How old is your JB4 ?
I think we got it new around 3-4 years ago? Firmware version says 32/10//2 in the log if that means anything. From my understanding its got all the g5 functionality.

It still seems like a cold side leak. At Wot there's no surging or sound- I'm thinking the boost sensor is seeing 12 lbs of boost, because the turbos are pushing air through the leak at the leak's max capacity, and continues to make 12 lbs to the tb. But at part throttle the turbos are pushing less air that still leaks, which the boost sensor reads, so the ecu tries to compensate. Any thoughts on my theory here? I'll try a pressure test again- diagnosing this issue has been costly and time consuming
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Default 03-28-2019, 11:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by nefariousminion
I think we got it new around 3-4 years ago? Firmware version says 32/10//2 in the log if that means anything. From my understanding its got all the g5 functionality.

It still seems like a cold side leak. At Wot there's no surging or sound- I'm thinking the boost sensor is seeing 12 lbs of boost, because the turbos are pushing air through the leak at the leak's max capacity, and continues to make 12 lbs to the tb. But at part throttle the turbos are pushing less air that still leaks, which the boost sensor reads, so the ecu tries to compensate. Any thoughts on my theory here? I'll try a pressure test again- diagnosing this issue has been costly and time consuming
If you arenít sure post a pic of your JB4 board

When you pressure / boost leak tested the car how much psi did you use?



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Default 04-01-2019, 07:12 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave @ BMS/Fuel-It!
If you arenít sure post a pic of your JB4 board

When you pressure / boost leak tested the car how much psi did you use?
I regulated it to about 10psi, from the hot side of the i/c. Quickly identified the intercooler connection leaks and found the lower cp ripped from hitting one of the pulleys. All of that has been replaced, and did not find any leaks after install, but still have the issue. The whistling, howling, surging sounds happen at partial throttle from any throttle to wot, even low psi. I have some 4mm rubber hose in for vacuum lines, I am putting in HPS 3.5mm Silicone, maybe the rubber is collapsing. I'm gonna try reading vacuum and actuator free movement again tonight, only other thing I can think of is Boost solenoids...
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Default 04-01-2019, 11:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by nefariousminion
I regulated it to about 10psi, from the hot side of the i/c. Quickly identified the intercooler connection leaks and found the lower cp ripped from hitting one of the pulleys. All of that has been replaced, and did not find any leaks after install, but still have the issue. The whistling, howling, surging sounds happen at partial throttle from any throttle to wot, even low psi. I have some 4mm rubber hose in for vacuum lines, I am putting in HPS 3.5mm Silicone, maybe the rubber is collapsing. I'm gonna try reading vacuum and actuator free movement again tonight, only other thing I can think of is Boost solenoids...
Sounds good. But the howling is concerning as well- usually that is synonymous with turbo siren aka the snails are about done.

Check the solenoids & report back



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Default 04-02-2019, 06:45 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave @ BMS/Fuel-It!
Sounds good. But the howling is concerning as well- usually that is synonymous with turbo siren aka the snails are about done.

Check the solenoids & report back
I'd like to believe the howling is the silicone inlets (small tear b/c of pulleys). I reread vacuum. ~30" from the canisters to the solenoids, 20" to the wastegates at idle, goes down to 9" with any throttle. In post 6 I mentioned "Went from 20" at cruise/idle down to a consistent 9" with pedal to the floor." Per "little to no boost" sticky isn't that bad? Shouldn't it spike and then settle back to 20" ? Is it possible I have the wiring switch, or put the pigtails on backwards?

Hoping I have isolated the issue. Thanks in advance
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Default 04-08-2019, 09:14 AM

ding ding ding it was clogged secondaries. There were chunks of the primaries right before the secondaries, and what looked like hardened lava. I could feel the back pressure driving, like the engine was congested (thought it was oil related, I blew out the vcg, oil cooler oring, ofhg). If you cruised down a hill in gear it would slow down more than if you were neutral. And I believe this also caused vacuum at the wastegates to drop to 9" as soon as i touched the gas. Anyways immensely relieved. I will post a log once I get another bank of index 12's and coils.
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Default 04-08-2019, 11:04 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by nefariousminion
ding ding ding it was clogged secondaries. There were chunks of the primaries right before the secondaries, and what looked like hardened lava. I could feel the back pressure driving, like the engine was congested (thought it was oil related, I blew out the vcg, oil cooler oring, ofhg). If you cruised down a hill in gear it would slow down more than if you were neutral. And I believe this also caused vacuum at the wastegates to drop to 9" as soon as i touched the gas. Anyways immensely relieved. I will post a log once I get another bank of index 12's and coils.


Did you happen to take pics of the clogged secondaries?



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Default 04-09-2019, 09:57 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave @ BMS/Fuel-It!


Did you happen to take pics of the clogged secondaries?
Yep, attached. From the outside, the ***** were oddly wet, may have been fuel or condensation. I was definitely alarmed at the primary remnants and carbon buildup that fell out. The lighter colored dust shows how much the secondaries crumbled once I hacked them.
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Default 04-09-2019, 10:35 PM

Geez, those things were clogged, BAD



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Default 04-11-2019, 06:27 AM

Morning!

Lets see if that addresses white smoke in exhaust.
Injectors on the way, plugs going (oem bosch, apparently NGK 95770 is on national backorder?), coils if still misfiring in upper rpm...
Once all that is done, I will post a another log, if you would please consider review. Thank you!!
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Default 04-11-2019, 09:54 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by nefariousminion
Morning!

Lets see if that addresses white smoke in exhaust.
Injectors on the way, plugs going (oem bosch, apparently NGK 95770 is on national backorder?), coils if still misfiring in upper rpm...
Once all that is done, I will post a another log, if you would please consider review. Thank you!!
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