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doug@frankenturbo.com's Avatar
doug@frankenturbo.com doug@frankenturbo.com is offline
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Default 03-17-2017, 04:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyt
Sorry, try again. The JB4 has no capabilities for monitoring knock.

If you spent half the time reading the forums as you do posting nonsense, you might actually learn something about the platform.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredcase
Well, isn't a timing pull an indication of the dme detecting knock and retarding the timing? And he said he turned off knock detection.

Either way, his comment about jb4 not detecting knock on cyl 1 only is completely retarded. Along with his graphs, and comments about inlets.

Well golly, is today the day for being extra mean and hatey? Just for kicks, I'll say again that ignition timing corrections are being monitored via the JB4. On all cylinders but #1. And there's a difference between turning off knock detection and turning off MISFIRE detection.

So people have been complaining about my lack of engagement with other posters here. Let's see: repeatedly negative and ill-thought-out "corrections", schoolyard insults, and then of course inane posts from a spooked competitor. It's such a wealth of thought-provoking insights that I just don't know where to begin!


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Tony@VargasTurboTech Tony@VargasTurboTech is offline
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Default 03-17-2017, 05:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by doug@frankenturbo.com
Don't go deleting this later, Tony.
Oh I wont. Don't you worry. Lets see if you are going to deny that turbocharger systems builds all your turbos. If you do not deny that, which would be very stupid if you did. Then you saying the "one thing" you guys do in house, you actually don't do in house. The rabbit hole gets much much deeper Doug, you have left a trail of very unhappy people who build, and have built "frankenturbos" none of them are afraid to chat on the record. Have a good weekend sir...


Vargas Turbocharger Technologies
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Making the world happier one turbocharger at a time

Last edited by Tony@VargasTurboTech; 03-18-2017 at 10:11 AM..
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Terry @ BMS's Avatar
Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
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Default 03-17-2017, 05:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deen@StreetKingImports
When I log the car, I see timing on all 6 cylinders, so could you explain why it doesn't detect knock on cylinder 1 even though we can log it? BTW love how thorough this thread is. NEED more vendors like you
You'll see the DME pulling timing from a knock event on the cyl 1-6 timing values. You can also setup the JB4 to show the knock correction independent of the timing values if you prefer.

As for the rest of it haven't read the thread.


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U's2drift U's2drift is offline
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Default 03-17-2017, 06:49 PM

I can't believe no one has commented on this head "porting" or bottom end freshing up...

Now I was seriously giving his product a chance to win my business. I've only driven 1k miles in the past 2 years since I got a Jeep and his warranty would be nice. BS data aside.... give him a chance right...?

But when he recommended his engine builder. You have to be joking right? If you have the nerve to call that quality work and recommend them to others, I'd hate to see the inside of his turbos. It was done with a flex-hone and a drill, with the bottom end still together. I wondering where all the metal shavings are hiding? And that port job, haha that's going to catch more carbon then the ozone. Before you say it looks bad because it's not polished, you'd be on the other side of the wall trying to smooth out those ruts.
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Default 03-17-2017, 07:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
You'll see the DME pulling timing from a knock event on the cyl 1-6 timing values. You can also setup the JB4 to show the knock correction independent of the timing values if you prefer.

As for the rest of it haven't read the thread.
LOL, when the creator of the product is calling BS on your findings....


Vargas Turbocharger Technologies
Tony@Vargasturbo.com
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Making the world happier one turbocharger at a time
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fredcase fredcase is offline
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Default 03-17-2017, 08:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by doug@frankenturbo.com
Here's the thing about troubleshooting these modern, sophisticated cars: there's rarely one straightforward answer to puzzling behavior. So with the new turbos installed, why was the DME suddenly triggering a CEL for misfires? Even when the boost and all other tuning settings were the same? Well, even with so many variables the same, the car was nevertheless taking in more air and fuel. And it was a lot faster, so there was definitely a change. And if the car was faster & felt strong, why the CEL after finishing each pull?

And what do you do when the obvious suspects -- bad fuel mixture, too much WMI, bad injector(s), bad/wrong spark plugs -- all get tested/checked/changed? In my case, you start questioning whether a misfire is actually occurring. And it's pretty easy to examine the data logs to test that. Firstly, if the engine were misfiring, the O2 sensors would register that unburnt oxygen in the exhaust stream. You'd see a huge spike like this one:




Lambda values spiking to way over stoichiometric are a dead giveaway for an unburnt fuel/air charge. So in the case of bad injectors, like we had in the above example, Lambda was shot to hell when they acted up. But here's a look at the Lambdas in a run where misfiring was reported.




So where's the Lambda spike? Well, then we looked at the data from our high-speed Torqbyte data logger, and it sure did seem like there was some kind of latency there. The rpms bump up right at that 6500-ish rpms.




Ok. So there's an irregularity in the rpms, which is triggering the DME's misfire protection. But the Lambdas don't show one. Faced with a puzzle, I did what just about everyone does these days: I Googled it. And I came across this interesting thread:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=780764

And here is another, pointing to the same possible cause: a stock, dual mass flywheel.

Our test car still has the 535is clutch mated to a stock flywheel. And the data logs strongly rule out an actual misfire. So I arrived at the conclusion this was a case of "ghost misfire" and simply turned off misfire detection in the TunerPro software map. With that modified file loaded, the DME no longer frets about a flywheel-generated anomaly, and the logs continue to confirm the engine is running smoothly:




I'm going to reiterate that I did this exploration only after eliminating the more common causes of misfires. The fuel injectors are new, the WMI system turned off, the coil packs were replaced, new NGK 5992 plugs gapped down to .020 also went in. None changed the misfire warning. But the software workaround works flawlessly.

And so it's time! Let's turn up the juice! And see what shakes loose.

Thanks

Doug Harper
FrankenTurbo
So lets get this straight. You cranked timing to not recomended levels, started getting misfires, blamed the dmfw for false misfires, turned off dme misfire detection above 6500rpm via tuner pro. Kill cyl 1, and blame jb4 for not detecting cyl 1 knock?

Neat.


2007 335i MT, JB4 G5, Hybrid Race BEF, DCI, Inlets, RB 2ís, outlets, 6" AMS FMIC,Chargepipe with Raceport BOV, d_p's, stage 2 lpfp, Mfactory LSD, X-Clutch twin disk.

Last edited by fredcase; 03-18-2017 at 01:54 PM..
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weebles weebles is offline
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Default 03-18-2017, 03:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by weebles
Agreed, I like how he says "no use in taking timing to the moon"... Meanwhile... Timing is to the moon hahah.

Yo, Doug.... This isn't a 2.7TT... Back the timing off bud.
Quote:
Originally Posted by weebles
They suspected a broken or melted ring in cylinder 1, is this something that could be caused by overly aggressive tuning..?? Perhaps running way too much timing advance??
Weird how this was pointed out in 2016... The second post wasn't really a question..... Those are sarcastic question marks
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Limpmode Limpmode is offline
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Default 03-19-2017, 12:20 PM

Doug,

I’ve found this thread extremely interesting. I stumbled on this a day or two ago and since have read every post on here. Yes we have some extremely talented tuners on here who are bored with your process, because they’ve already been there done that. But we also have quite a few new comers, especially with the affordability of these cars now. I’m new to this platform, and I can’t tell you how much I’ve picked up in this tread alone. It’s been great! I know most of this information is out there, but it’s not as readily available as reading through your step-by-step process on this thread. It’s nice to see someone learn as they go (much like I do) and I’ve picked up on so many things just by reading through your successes and failures. I'm also one who likes to test things the wrong way, before I figure out how to do things right. Sometimes I'm not willing to take things at face value even after someone has proved them to be right. It's all part of building an understanding.
I think you may have tapped into something that hasn’t been done so much on this platform, which is offering a turbo solution for the guys that don’t necessarily want to make 600 to 700 WHP, but would be satisfied at 500 WHP levels. I’m planning turbo upgrades in the near future, and I’d like to not kill my bottom end power with 700 WHP+ capable turbos, since I’m only attempting around 500. There are a few options out there, and I’m researching all of them. I’ll be interested to see how well your offerings perform before I make any decisions.
Sorry for the novel, keep up the interesting work!


07 335i; JB4, Anti Lag, MHD BEF, BMS DCI, Phoenix CP, Tial BOV, MAP OC, BMS OCC, 1320 Down *****, MMP Inlets, RB Ext PCV, Mishimoto OCC, BMS Meth, N20 TMAP, VTT stock+billet comp wheels, Blk124 Wheels (5series take offs staggered), 275/35/18
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titium titium is offline
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Default 03-19-2017, 07:11 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony@VargasTurboTech
LOL, when the creator of the product is calling BS on your findings....
Just like the cams that are useless and don't work with the factory DME?

seriously though do you really need to start fights with every vendor on this platform?
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BlackJet BlackJet is offline
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Default 03-20-2017, 07:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by titium
Just like the cams that are useless and don't work with the factory DME?

seriously though do you really need to start fights with every vendor on this platform?
I'm not saying Doug has earned my business, that's not the case yet, but the way Vargas Turbo acts is enough to make sure they never see my dollars. Grow up dude, act like a professional and let your products do the talking.

I was into DSMs for almost 15 years before getting my N54 and I never saw a vendor act like this...


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Tony@VargasTurboTech Tony@VargasTurboTech is offline
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Default 03-20-2017, 08:12 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJet
I'm not saying Doug has earned my business, that's not the case yet, but the way Vargas Turbo acts is enough to make sure they never see my dollars. Grow up dude, act like a professional and let your products do the talking.

I was into DSMs for almost 15 years before getting my N54 and I never saw a vendor act like this...
LOL, by posting that Doug is bold face lying by telling people he builds turbos in house is being unprofessional? I guess you would rather be lied to than know the truth? That would be par for the N54 course. That the company that actually builds All Doug's turbos contacted us, and says they are not sure they can continue to work with him anymore because he is so dishonest is also me being unprofessional?

This is literally Hexon all over again. Everyone jumped all over Hexon because they offered N54 turbos for slightly less than other well established vendors.

I posted buyer beware, because I knew all about Hexon, and what they were doing. What happened? I was heckled as being a hater, called unprofessional. Fast forward 8 months everyone's Hexons are failing, poof they disappear, everyone loses their money. So was I being a hater, or was I trying to help people, seems to be the later wouldn't it.

As for you coming from the DSM world, and not seeing any forum drama. You my friend are full of ****. I have never seen forum drama like the Buschur DSM forum wars with other vendors. It far and above surpasses anything I have ever seen in forum drama.


Vargas Turbocharger Technologies
Tony@Vargasturbo.com
www.Vargasturbo.com
Making the world happier one turbocharger at a time

Last edited by Tony@VargasTurboTech; 03-20-2017 at 11:26 AM..
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dyezak dyezak is offline
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Default 03-20-2017, 08:48 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony@VargasTurboTech
As for you coming from the DSM world, and not seeing any forum drama. You my friend are full of ****. I have never seen forum drama like the Buschur DSM forum wars with other vendors. It far and above surpasses anything I have ever seen in forum drama.
I was on the DSM list servers, irc chats, and BBS's back in the mid 1990's before the first forums ever spun up. I remember Buschur putting the first 20g on his car and breaking into the 11's first.

Tony is right, the Buschur wars were EPIC.
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boostE92d boostE92d is offline
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Default 03-20-2017, 03:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by doug@frankenturbo.com
I wasn't at all surprised by the negativity here. And in my years I've seen worse. I've got my scars from the vwvortex 1.8T Tech Forum. Heck, I'm even the star of a YouTube video attacking my business. All a part of my chosen livelihood.

dh
If you have the same experience over and over on different platforms the problem isn't everyone else. There are other turbo companies that don't have any of the issues you are experiencing.
Tony is here to protect us and you wrote the n54 tuning bible. You'll both excuse me (and quite a few others) if we aren't as grateful as you might expect us to be.
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doug@frankenturbo.com doug@frankenturbo.com is offline
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Default 04-03-2017, 01:39 AM

First logs with the test car back up and running with its new cylinder head:




Boost is pretty much unchanged. Meaning manifold plenum backpressures aren't impacted at all by the re-shaped air passageways. Given the moderate 20psi of boost this isn't too much of a surprise. The current fueling configuration -- a standard Stg2 bucketed in-tank LPFP supported by 1000cc of 50/50 WMI -- is still at its outer limits. The Low Pressure Fuel circuit looks particularly weak, but that's partly due to a mis-read by the car's sensor. When we fitted a separate 100psi pressure transducer into the fuel lines, the Torqbyte controller showed the actual values are higher.




Given the headroom of 60psi of pressure in the fuel sender circuit, the next thing to try is a bit of home-brewed throttle body injection.




No strangers to this kind of tinkering on the VW 1.8T engine, it was a pretty straightforward job of assembling a trio of Devil's Own D07 injectors to a generic throttle body spacer and tying into the fuel line feeding the high pressure pump. This bad-boy is tested to flow 3 x 450cc at the standard 70psi line pressure. Granted we have to deduct for boost at the manifold plenum, but a net 40psi of pressure ought to deliver ~1000cc of added fuel.

That of course is assuming the current Stage2 fuel pump can maintain pressure. We'll have a look at that next.


Thx


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Motolawyer Motolawyer is offline
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Default 04-03-2017, 06:50 AM

It feels like this has turned into a build log for some guy putting together his first car than a vendor trying to advertise a new product for some reason


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ShocknAwe ShocknAwe is offline
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Default 04-03-2017, 11:43 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagol
It feels like this has turned into a build log for some guy putting together his first car than a vendor trying to advertise a new product for some reason
That's because theres very little info on the turbo. Nvm now that the car has a nonstandard head I'm not sure if its relevant to his market anymore.


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Sticky Sticky is offline
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Default 04-03-2017, 11:58 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagol
It feels like this has turned into a build log for some guy putting together his first car than a vendor trying to advertise a new product for some reason
Freaking nailed it.

I wish there was a button to press to send you a beer.


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Torgus Torgus is offline
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Default 04-03-2017, 12:24 PM

I wish Doug would post more.


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fredcase fredcase is offline
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Default 04-03-2017, 01:27 PM

http://www.ebay.com/itm/132140956867

Same turbos even cheaper now?


2007 335i MT, JB4 G5, Hybrid Race BEF, DCI, Inlets, RB 2ís, outlets, 6" AMS FMIC,Chargepipe with Raceport BOV, d_p's, stage 2 lpfp, Mfactory LSD, X-Clutch twin disk.
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Default 04-03-2017, 01:42 PM

wow, I take a few months off from the forums and come back to this...

WTFFF is happening here? He's still posting random graphs of data points to try and seem legitimate? This is almost comical?

** Also, who blew their engine?


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ShocknAwe ShocknAwe is offline
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Default 04-03-2017, 01:45 PM

I WAS optimistic, but, he's still going at it, with seemingly no direction, and it comes off as a lack of experience. And that head job is just scary looking. So many questions on that judgment call.

Been asking for 93/pump gas dyno results for what feels like forever, with no acknowledgement whatsoever from Doug. I feel like I was pretty respectful too. Bad business.

Oh well. Wish some folks would get to posting reviews of the VTT GC Lites.


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mj6234 mj6234 is offline
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Default 04-03-2017, 02:14 PM

Needs more timing IMHO. Why target 20* when you can target 25*?

#lessonnotlearned
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blaster3500 blaster3500 is offline
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Default 04-03-2017, 03:02 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShocknAwe
I WAS optimistic, but, he's still going at it, with seemingly no direction, and it comes off as a lack of experience. And that head job is just scary looking. So many questions on that judgment call.

Been asking for 93/pump gas dyno results for what feels like forever, with no acknowledgement whatsoever from Doug. I feel like I was pretty respectful too. Bad business.

Oh well. Wish some folks would get to posting reviews of the VTT GC Lites.
I am finally getting my GC lites dialed in. They have been great so far. I will probably dyno the car once I get finished with an ethenol blend tune.


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ShocknAwe ShocknAwe is offline
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Default 04-04-2017, 03:54 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by blaster3500
I am finally getting my GC lites dialed in. They have been great so far. I will probably dyno the car once I get finished with an ethenol blend tune.
How many miles, what tune are you on now?


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Vaccattack Vaccattack is offline
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Default 04-05-2017, 06:14 AM

I'm just waiting on the group buy from the MMP turbos. We should get a bunch of reviews, I was originally in on the group buy and I was the one to get him to up the warranty to 2 years. My good friend bought a set, I'm going to see how he does with them and I'm already 99 percent sure I will buy them.
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