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Lonmon Lonmon is offline
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Default JB4 Less or not effective on M340i? - 10-14-2020, 08:05 AM

I have found multiple M340i owners that have transferred a JB4 or purchased a JB4 for their M340i and tested various maps with no performance gain at the track or via draggy. I am concerned that there may be some DME intervention that despite higher boost levels and dyno proven HP gains, the performance of the vehicle is not improved. Such as the torque limit is being reached and then the DME is pulling the power back when actually being used on the street or track. I myself have added the JB+ and am not sure if I really notice a difference when accelerating through multiple gears. Almost feels like an initial boost and then goes flat. Not saying I have proof per se that it is useless but looking for others thoughts, feelings, data, and certainly Terry or someone from Burger to chime in. I know that on other platforms the JB4, +, etc work wonderfully as I am coming from an Infiniti Q50 that was night and day difference. I just have a feeling that BMW has found a way to thwart our fun. Thanks!


2020 BMW M340ix Portimao Blue
K&N drop in, JB+, Intake muffler delete

2016 Q50 Premium 3.0t AWD (GONE)
K&N drop ins
Megan Racing Lowers
Megan Racing Y p!p3
BMS Heat Exchanger
JB4 W/fuel wires Map 6 custom
E20ish mix made 413whp 410wtq (17-18psi peak)
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KnifeEdge87 KnifeEdge87 is offline
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Default 10-14-2020, 08:18 AM

0-60mph not improving is to be expected, you’re traction limited with the rwd platform

You’ll need to do some pulls at speed to notice anything

Without data it really is pointless to hypothesize based on heresay
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VipinLJ VipinLJ is offline
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Default 10-14-2020, 08:33 AM

I've read that too. Lots of people complaining about the JB4 not being effective on the M340i. I wonder what BMS has to say, considering they have an M340i and I believe it works on that car.


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2020 BMW 330i xDrive
2018 Audi SQ5 Prestige
2017 Audi A7 Prestige
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Lonmon Lonmon is offline
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Default 10-14-2020, 09:42 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by KnifeEdge87
0-60mph not improving is to be expected, you’re traction limited with the rwd platform

You’ll need to do some pulls at speed to notice anything

Without data it really is pointless to hypothesize based on heresay
My vehicle is Xdrive, the others I eluded to posted draggy times and track slips while using maps 0,1,2,and 3 with little to no change in the 0-60 times in most cases and also 1/4 mile times. Some even reported worse numbers while using the JB4. Not my data but data none the less. Again, I am not here to trash Burger or the JB4 as I believe in the company and product, I just believe there may be more intervention by the BMW dme on this platform then previous ones or other manufacturers. The purpose of my post is to compare data from other users (thought this would be the best place) and see if we can determine if this issue exists, what it is exactly, and if there is a solution. Hopefully it will not end up that a tune is the only way to get measurable gains beyond dyno figures.


2020 BMW M340ix Portimao Blue
K&N drop in, JB+, Intake muffler delete

2016 Q50 Premium 3.0t AWD (GONE)
K&N drop ins
Megan Racing Lowers
Megan Racing Y p!p3
BMS Heat Exchanger
JB4 W/fuel wires Map 6 custom
E20ish mix made 413whp 410wtq (17-18psi peak)
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KnifeEdge87 KnifeEdge87 is offline
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Default 10-14-2020, 12:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonmon
My vehicle is Xdrive, the others I eluded to posted draggy times and track slips while using maps 0,1,2,and 3 with little to no change in the 0-60 times in most cases and also 1/4 mile times. Some even reported worse numbers while using the JB4. Not my data but data none the less. Again, I am not here to trash Burger or the JB4 as I believe in the company and product, I just believe there may be more intervention by the BMW dme on this platform then previous ones or other manufacturers. The purpose of my post is to compare data from other users (thought this would be the best place) and see if we can determine if this issue exists, what it is exactly, and if there is a solution. Hopefully it will not end up that a tune is the only way to get measurable gains beyond dyno figures.
Strange

Best thing to do would be to compare actual logs or dyno figures instead of dragy numbers to see what's going on

I would be super interested to see since I'm actually considering getting a B58 project car

I don't mean to sound like a fanboy that will defend the jb4 to the grave, I'm fully aware there are things the jb4 simply cannot do. I'm just curious how it could be possible that it does nothing entirely
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Terry @ BMS's Avatar
Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
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Default 10-14-2020, 12:51 PM

We've seen solid improvements on our in house 2020, and have tuned several hundred G chassis customer cars at this point.

If you need individual tuning help you'll need to look at your specific situation with map0 logs and dragy runs to compare against map3 for example. Then you'd evaluate that data looking at boost & timing values to see where you're under performing specifically.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Lonmon Lonmon is offline
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Default 10-14-2020, 01:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
We've seen solid improvements on our in house 2020, and have tuned several hundred G chassis customer cars at this point.

If you need individual tuning help you'll need to look at your specific situation with map0 logs and dragy runs to compare against map3 for example. Then you'd evaluate that data looking at boost & timing values to see where you're under performing specifically.
Terry, have you gathered data from draggy and or the track with your 2020, or just dyno figures? Again, I am not bringing this up to cause trouble but rather to see if there is anything new we are dealing with in tuning challanges on this specific platform. Hopefully some of the guys who have the data you are asking about from the Bimmer forum will chime in and provide it. Several people who have tried the JB4 on maps 0, 1, 2, etc either with the draggy or at the track and saw no better numbers. I can't speak to their logs although they claimed to see higher boost pressure but still no performance increase during testing despite different maps. My personal experience is more difficult since I am only using the JB+ at this time and there is no logging to review. I was contemplating moving to the JB4 but need to sort this out before spending the extra money on it. If there are multiple JB4 users with M340i's running sub 4sec 0-60 and sub 12sec 1/4 miles then it must be worthwhile. I'm just waiting to see some confirmation that there isn't some nanny in the DME thwarting performance gains beyond dyno numbers.


2020 BMW M340ix Portimao Blue
K&N drop in, JB+, Intake muffler delete

2016 Q50 Premium 3.0t AWD (GONE)
K&N drop ins
Megan Racing Lowers
Megan Racing Y p!p3
BMS Heat Exchanger
JB4 W/fuel wires Map 6 custom
E20ish mix made 413whp 410wtq (17-18psi peak)
Reply With Quote
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Terry @ BMS's Avatar
Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
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Default 10-14-2020, 01:37 PM

Plenty of dragy data of course. Mid 12s stock, high 11s on map3, on 91 octane, for example. Trap speed gains of 4-5mph. Waiting until we get some "impressive" E85 runs before publishing the numbers.

Usually if someone isn't picking up the performance there is some specific reason and that would be viewable in their logs. Can't diagnose a hypothetical patient so if you have a specific car with specific logs and specific dragy times, we can look at that data and evaluate that specific situation.

There isn't any sort of new nanny thwarting performance but the M340 does run more boost from the factory than the previous generation B58 so the gains are not as dramatic especially on lower grade fuels.

If you're happy with the JB+ performance vs. factory then you can always stick with it. Net performance with a JB+ maxed out is going to more similar to a JB4 map1 for example.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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KnifeEdge87 KnifeEdge87 is offline
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Default 10-14-2020, 01:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonmon
Terry, have you gathered data from draggy and or the track with your 2020, or just dyno figures? Again, I am not bringing this up to cause trouble but rather to see if there is anything new we are dealing with in tuning challanges on this specific platform. Hopefully some of the guys who have the data you are asking about from the Bimmer forum will chime in and provide it. Several people who have tried the JB4 on maps 0, 1, 2, etc either with the draggy or at the track and saw no better numbers. I can't speak to their logs although they claimed to see higher boost pressure but still no performance increase during testing despite different maps. My personal experience is more difficult since I am only using the JB+ at this time and there is no logging to review. I was contemplating moving to the JB4 but need to sort this out before spending the extra money on it. If there are multiple JB4 users with M340i's running sub 4sec 0-60 and sub 12sec 1/4 miles then it must be worthwhile. I'm just waiting to see some confirmation that there isn't some nanny in the DME thwarting performance gains beyond dyno numbers.
There's variation between cars that's quite normal

All you can ever really do is compare stuff on your own car or compare like for like data. Comparing person A's result with person B's is always a recipe for disaster

0to60 and 1/4 mile time are completely not relevant between different cars because of a huge number of factors (altitude, tires, temperature, humidity, weights, quality of fuel, general maintenance on the vehicle, road condition, etc), people may also omit other modifications or changes on their cars not out of malice but simply that people don't always disclose 100% of relevant info

The butt dyno is useless and although actual dyno exp isn't a prefect representation of the real world, a well controlled and setup dyno run is far better evidence than any real world acceleration /drag result.

If you already have a jb4 avail why not just swap it over? It's a relatively simple job and you will be able to get real meaningful data that is the best information possible (because it is 100% your results)
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