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iminhell1 iminhell1 is offline
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Default 07-26-2015, 07:50 PM

IAT Sensor is after the DCI's, correct?
Actually it's after the turbo's? Intercooler?
So the measured IAT's reflect the efficiency of the turbo. If the factory box creates a restriction the turbo has to work harder to make boost, which raises the IAT. Depending on where in the efficiency island the boost falls will determine the final IAT.
Increasing the initial temp, lowering the restriction and increasing the efficiency may very well work better at controlling IAT's. You'd have to do the math.
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Default 07-29-2015, 02:19 PM

Has anyone removed the inlet tubes to see if there was a difference? I removed them on my 335xi because I didn't like the looks of that tubing just sitting there and it made for a cleaner engine bay. I'm curious how it affected the gains.


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Default 07-29-2015, 02:29 PM

For the N54 just search inlets. Lots of work done there recently.


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Default 08-10-2015, 01:16 AM

I don't think I was clear or I don't understand what you are saying. What I meant was the inlet tubing from the grill to the filter. I'm curious if removing that has any affect on performance, since you're not getting the cooler air from outside the engine bay anymore.

Thank you!
Sam


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Default 08-16-2015, 07:10 AM

So basically, DCI's (for our cars) defies all my understanding of needing a CAI because our cars have a turbo.

If this is true, I'll buy a set.
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Default 08-29-2015, 12:31 PM

This air intake may actually provide the best of both worlds - DCI plus shielding from engine heat. Thoughts?
https://www.google.com/search?q=ecs+...MKUMt5HcLjM%3A

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Default 08-30-2015, 10:05 PM

In a matter of minutes it will be as hot inside that box as everywhere else in the engine bay. This box will most likely restrict the airflow....but it looks cool!
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Default 08-31-2015, 08:33 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Dub
So basically, DCI's (for our cars) defies all my understanding of needing a CAI because our cars have a turbo.

If this is true, I'll buy a set.
Basically. Get your IAT gauge or use a JB4 to monitor IAT and let the car idle for 20 min with the factory airbox and with a DCI, and evaluate for yourself!


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Default 09-15-2015, 11:49 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Basically. Get your IAT gauge or use a JB4 to monitor IAT and let the car idle for 20 min with the factory airbox and with a DCI, and evaluate for yourself!
Terry what about the new craze on inlets.
Should one that doesn't have DCI's just skip them and get inlets instead?
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Default 09-15-2015, 11:50 AM

If you don't mind tearing apart the engine bay inlets are preferred.


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Default 12-22-2015, 08:12 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
If you logged significantly higher IATs with the DCI installed then you were doing something wrong or not comparing equal conditions. Typically those who "feel" a power loss are just fooled by the different sounds the DCI makes. It can be difficult to feel +-15whp in a 350-400whp car. But make no mistake, the factory intake is a restriction > 320hp. At 400whp its a huge restriction. You'd feel this. It turns out inlet temps don't change much but they'd have to change 80 degrees+ to makeup for the airflow restriction the factory airbox introduces at higher RPM and boost levels.

Again DCIs and hot air are difficult for many to understand as they are fixated on the concept of hot air in hot air out. But so much heat is added after the air comes in, a 30-40 degree delta coming in is reduced to a small 0-5 degree delta by the time it enters the engine. No faith is required here. These are simple tests anyone can do. Many hundreds have done them and come to the same conclusion. And then there are maybe 10% of those out there like yourself who convince themselves the factory airbox is better and go happily on their way. Unless you are at the track or dyno often you may never know what you're missing anyway. So run whatever works best for you.

32 HP gain by removing a factory air box and replacing with a DCI? Yea right....
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Default 12-22-2015, 08:13 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by anti

Here's another video. Check the inlet air temps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCi2yo4UqPI
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Default 12-22-2015, 10:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by =C=
32 HP gain by removing a factory air box and replacing with a DCI? Yea right....
If you don't believe that how about this fact: By making the inlets larger that go to the DCI, the inlets+DCI combo can add over 100whp over the stock airbox!


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Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 12-23-2015, 12:05 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by =C=
Here's another video. Check the inlet air temps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCi2yo4UqPI
So where are your independent test results? The fact that you are resorting to posting Mighty Car Mods videos leads me to believe you don't have any and do not understand why a different car might see different results with or without tuning.
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Default 12-24-2015, 07:38 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
If you don't believe that how about this fact: By making the inlets larger that go to the DCI, the inlets+DCI combo can add over 100whp over the stock airbox!
It's funny cause it's true. And these nay sayers can't wrap their head around the DCI's improving the restriction of the factory intake box.
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Default 12-24-2015, 07:35 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
If you don't believe that how about this fact: By making the inlets larger that go to the DCI, the inlets+DCI combo can add over 100whp over the stock airbox!
What? I think you mean when you've also installed JB4 and upped the boost to 14psi. Inlets alone do not add 100whp.
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Default 12-25-2015, 10:50 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrupted
What? I think you mean when you've also installed JB4 and upped the boost to 14psi. Inlets alone do not add 100whp.
I mean with the car tuned to target around 28psi. Run with the stock airbox and make around 400whp. Run with the DCIs and you can make around 500whp. With no other changes.

There is no upper limit on how much power can be gained with a properly flowing intake. To suggest the 30whp shown in our dyno testing is inflated just shows how naive the commentator is.


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Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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ur20v ur20v is offline
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Default 05-26-2016, 12:16 AM

Raising an old thread, I did some data logging on inlet temps on my F10 M5 s63tu.

swopped over both my DIY Ramair filters and cut up airboxes and fitted one OEM airbox and one Ramair with only the bottom half airbox still in place.

Ch 1: is the air temp infront of the radiator next to the airbox air feed ***** to show actual 'ambient the air filters are being feed.

Ch2: is the open Ramair with no airbox lid. Taken inside the filter tube.

Ch3: is the OEM airbox taken inside the filter tube.

Ch4: engine bay ambient temps to show worst case air temps and how well or not the filters are being effected.

I will get IATs from the JB4 and record ture ambient air temp from the dash display.

Waiting for the roads to dry out and then will log temps.

Some photos of the setup...
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ur20v ur20v is offline
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Default 05-26-2016, 12:16 AM

OK, temp logs comparing the above:

Air temp ~17.5C
IATs steady between 30-32C
Water temp 120C

Run from a stop to

MN/AT date time int 1ch 2ch 3ch 4ch unit
AT 2022-05-20 14:34:30 5s 18.9 22.1 21.9 30.4 C
AT 2022-05-20 14:34:35 5s 18.9 22.8 21.9 30.4 C
AT 2022-05-20 14:34:40 5s 18.9 22.8 21.0 29.7 C
AT 2022-05-20 14:34:45 5s 18.9 22.2 21.0 29.1 C
AT 2022-05-20 14:34:50 5s 18.9 22.2 21.1 29.1 C
AT 2022-05-20 14:34:55 5s 18.9 22.2 21.2 30.4 C
AT 2022-05-20 14:35:00 5s 18.3 22.2 21.8 32.0 C
AT 2022-05-20 14:35:05 5s 18.3 23.4 22.8 37.3 C
AT 2022-05-20 14:35:10 5s 18.3 25.3 22.8 37.8 C
AT 2022-05-20 14:35:15 5s 18.3 26.7 22.8 37.2 C

So no airbox lid with Ramair filter (Ch2) adds 1 degree at cruise and approx 4 degrees on the OEM airbox (Ch 3). Stand then still accelorate until temps equalised then stop so engine bay heats up again
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ur20v ur20v is offline
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Default 05-26-2016, 12:18 AM

Another Log - long run time:

MN/AT date time int 1ch 2ch 3ch 4ch unit
AT 2022-05-20 14:25:56 5s 21.2 27.3 24.2 34.6 C
AT 2022-05-20 14:26:01 5s 21.2 29.0 25.9 36.4 C
AT 2022-05-20 14:26:06 5s 19.2 30.0 25.1 36.4 C
AT 2022-05-20 14:26:11 5s 19.2 26.6 25.1 33.2 C
AT 2022-05-20 14:26:16 5s 18.6 25.1 24.0 31.2 C
AT 2022-05-20 14:26:21 5s 18.6 24.2 23.4 30.6 C
AT 2022-05-20 14:26:26 5s 18.6 24.2 23.4 30.6 C
AT 2022-05-20 14:26:31 5s 18.6 24.8 22.3 30.5 C
AT 2022-05-20 14:26:36 5s 18.6 27.2 21.4 30.5 C
AT 2022-05-20 14:26:41 5s 18.6 23.9 22.4 29.1 C
AT 2022-05-20 14:26:46 5s 18.6 22.8 22.4 28.1 C
AT 2022-05-20 14:26:51 5s 18.6 22.3 21.7 28.1 C
AT 2022-05-20 14:26:56 5s 18.6 22.3 21.7 27.3 C
AT 2022-05-20 14:27:01 5s 18.6 22.3 21.7 28.1 C
AT 2022-05-20 14:27:06 5s 18.6 22.3 21.7 29.6 C
AT 2022-05-20 14:27:11 5s 18.6 23.7 22.3 33.1 C
AT 2022-05-20 14:27:16 5s 18.6 24.3 22.3 34.5 C
AT 2022-05-20 14:27:21 5s 18.6 24.8 22.3 35.0 C
AT 2022-05-20 14:27:26 5s 18.6 25.3 23.0 35.0 C
AT 2022-05-20 14:27:31 5s 18.6 25.3 23.7 35.7 C
AT 2022-05-20 14:27:36 5s 18.6 26.2 24.2 35.7 C
AT 2022-05-20 14:27:41 5s 18.6 26.2 24.2 35.7 C
AT 2022-05-20 14:27:46 5s 18.6 27.4 25.4 35.7 C
AT 2022-05-20 14:27:51 5s 18.6 28.2 26.3 37.4 C
AT 2022-05-20 14:27:56 5s 18.6 28.8 24.8 38.4 C
AT 2022-05-20 14:28:01 5s 18.5 27.2 24.1 36.8 C
AT 2022-05-20 14:28:06 5s 18.5 25.7 23.4 34.9 C
AT 2022-05-20 14:28:11 5s 18.5 24.0 24.4 33.6 C
AT 2022-05-20 14:28:16 5s 18.5 24.0 24.4 32.9 C
AT 2022-05-20 14:28:21 5s 18.5 22.7 23.4 32.3 C
AT 2022-05-20 14:28:26 5s 18.5 22.7 23.4 31.7 C
AT 2022-05-20 14:28:31 5s 18.5 22.7 23.4 31.7 C
AT 2022-05-20 14:28:36 5s 18.5 29.8 22.5 32.4 C
AT 2022-05-20 14:28:41 5s 18.5 25.9 23.6 30.9 C
AT 2022-05-20 14:28:46 5s 18.5 23.7 22.7 29.8 C
AT 2022-05-20 14:28:51 5s 18.5 23.0 22.7 29.8 C
AT 2022-05-20 14:28:56 5s 18.6 23.0 22.7 29.8 C
AT 2022-05-20 14:29:01 5s 18.6 22.4 22.7 29.8 C
AT 2022-05-20 14:29:06 5s 18.7 22.4 22.6 29.8 C

So your full on CAI will get you a max delta of ~3C degrees on OEM and 5C on a modified unsealed air box and 6-10C on a fully open air box at rest?

IATs remained steady through out the runs and even side to side- no measurable change.

Conclusion: At worst case (parked, running, fully hot, not a dyno where there are fans running and the hood is up venting all the hot air!) ~10C delta.

~$2-3k for a cold air system is not worth it or even modifying your OEM air box to enclose the cone filter like I did. The DCi wins hands down at the cost!

Probably runs the OEM close as the OEM filters are more expensive than the Ramair system!!

FYI this is the data logger I used with 4x 3m K type thermocouples as they are fast acting.
Attached Images
 

Last edited by ur20v; 05-26-2016 at 05:43 PM..
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ur20v ur20v is offline
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Default 05-26-2016, 12:19 AM

Should have similar results if you did the same on your DCI!
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Default 05-26-2016, 11:06 AM

@UR20v, interesting stuff
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Default 05-26-2016, 05:53 PM

Yes, very. I did it just out of interest and because I could. I wanted to see if there was any truth in these very heated debates (no pun intended lol) on forums and Youtube.

I for one believe the cold air debate is more about vested interests of those selling or being given a CAI for 'free' to test and those who have to prove the 'worth' of their fancy carbon purchase- theres a LOT of money to be made in them for very little outlay. Don't get me wrong. they don't hurt... well apart from your wallet! They may give you an incremental increase in power <1% and may help for those drag racing where you are sittting for ages with the bonnet closed and the engine etc fully hot so heat soak for the 5-10 sec's it takes to drop the temps and stabilise isn't realistic in a 9-10 sec run although this is more than negated by Water/Meth injection.

So if you have a spare $3k you just don't know what to do with then go for it but dropping a meth kit on for $600 seems a lot better value as a power adder... if you don't drag race (from a stop like at the drags and not rolling starts) save your money.
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Default 05-27-2016, 12:06 AM

I'll happily stick to the factory cold air intake with a drop-in K&N air filter (non-oiled).
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Thumbs up 06-08-2017, 08:24 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
I mean with the car tuned to target around 28psi. Run with the stock airbox and make around 400whp. Run with the DCIs and you can make around 500whp. With no other changes.

There is no upper limit on how much power can be gained with a properly flowing intake. To suggest the 30whp shown in our dyno testing is inflated just shows how naive the commentator is.
thanks



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