JB4tech.com - International Turbo Tuning Discussion
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Wade.JL Wade.JL is offline
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Default 10-26-2021, 12:16 PM

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Originally Posted by Vinniechin
Thanks Wade. Its just for fuel line recall and steering box. They do need to hook up to OBD but not snooping in engine.

Just worried if the car will run funny or throw codes with it unplugged.

I was hoping being T'd I don't have to disconnect. They shouldnt be snooping or diving deep into the engine.

So the Jeep is ok to drive without the OBD plugged in but the sensors T'd?

Thansk again.
It's def ok to drive with the sensors hooked up and OBD unplugged. It will just divert either to map 0 or map 1, I can't really remember off the top of my head. Depending on where the fuel line goes or what part of the line they are inspecting they might be snooping a little bit. The recall is for a fuel supply line, so of it's a part of the line that connects to the high pressure pump, then they might see the connectors. I would try to get more info on what part of the line needs to be inspected/replaced to know for sure.
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Vinniechin Vinniechin is offline
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Default 10-26-2021, 12:31 PM

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Originally Posted by Wade.JL
It's def ok to drive with the sensors hooked up and OBD unplugged. It will just divert either to map 0 or map 1, I can't really remember off the top of my head. Depending on where the fuel line goes or what part of the line they are inspecting they might be snooping a little bit. The recall is for a fuel supply line, so of it's a part of the line that connects to the high pressure pump, then they might see the connectors. I would try to get more info on what part of the line needs to be inspected/replaced to know for sure.
Sir, you are a gentleman and a scholar. Thank you very much for the great advice.

Vin
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Wade.JL Wade.JL is offline
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Default 10-26-2021, 01:00 PM

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Originally Posted by Vinniechin
Sir, you are a gentleman and a scholar. Thank you very much for the great advice.

Vin
No problem, anytime. I'd like to help more but I did a job switch not long ago and no longer work at Dodge anymore. So I don't have access to the stuff that I use to.
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Scottyboi10 Scottyboi10 is offline
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Default 12-05-2021, 05:37 PM

If I wanted to run an unlocked PCM from superchips and a trail dash as a tuner (which used the obd2 port) could I still use my JB4 to control methanol injection?
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Default 12-05-2021, 09:07 PM

Yes JB4 can do as much or as little as you want to do. But running WMI without OBDII data means the JB4 would not be monitoring fuel trims, air/fuel ratio, pedal, throttle, etc, as part of its WMI mapping. Doesn't seem like an ideal situation to me. But still better than any stand alone controller.


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Scottyboi10 Scottyboi10 is offline
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Default 12-05-2021, 09:17 PM

Right I’m trying to decide how I would set up the system. I want the advantages both systems provide. Like I saw superchips and diablo sport allow the Jeep to rev a little higher than oem. I know that the tazer unlocks a lot of the features those other two systems offer without using the obd2 as well. I also want to tune my transmission as well for faster shifts. But I like using my JB4 for engine diagnostics and I can control meth injection with it.
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Default 12-06-2021, 07:32 AM

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Originally Posted by Scottyboi10
Right I知 trying to decide how I would set up the system. I want the advantages both systems provide. Like I saw superchips and diablo sport allow the Jeep to rev a little higher than oem. I know that the tazer unlocks a lot of the features those other two systems offer without using the obd2 as well. I also want to tune my transmission as well for faster shifts. But I like using my JB4 for engine diagnostics and I can control meth injection with it.
Me personally if you wanted to go that route, and it's a route I've also been considering, you might be better off tuning with HP Tuners instead of Diablo or Superchips. You'd be getting a custom tune for both PCM and TCM instead of a canned tune, as well you'd be leaving the OBD port open for the JB4 so it could properly read all parameters for the WMI.
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Default 12-06-2021, 12:53 PM

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Originally Posted by Wade.JL
Me personally if you wanted to go that route, and it's a route I've also been considering, you might be better off tuning with HP Tuners instead of Diablo or Superchips. You'd be getting a custom tune for both PCM and TCM instead of a canned tune, as well you'd be leaving the OBD port open for the JB4 so it could properly read all parameters for the WMI.
Hey wade! Yeah I知 looking into it for sure. Also what happened to your Instagram? I went to look for it the other day and saw your account was gone. Also I might order that Gottuned turbo soon, just depends on my Christmas bonus lol. I plan on ordering the parts to run meth injection soon as well. I知 not sure who to ask to make my map 6 for that.
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Default 01-22-2022, 06:39 PM

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Originally Posted by Scottyboi10
Hey wade! Yeah I知 looking into it for sure. Also what happened to your Instagram? I went to look for it the other day and saw your account was gone. Also I might order that Gottuned turbo soon, just depends on my Christmas bonus lol. I plan on ordering the parts to run meth injection soon as well. I知 not sure who to ask to make my map 6 for that.
I actually took my instagram down, not a big fan of social media in general. I may add an account again sometime in the future just to have something for other Jeeper's looking to go the same route as a few of us have been going; to share knowledge basically.
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Default 04-17-2022, 10:14 AM

So are members with the Mishimoto pipe, exhaust and GBV still having bucking problems on Map 1? I have map 1 on an otherwise stock vehicle and no bucking. Expecting all the other parts inbound over the next few days.
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Default 04-18-2022, 01:36 PM

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Originally Posted by SmokinV10
So are members with the Mishimoto pipe, exhaust and GBV still having bucking problems on Map 1? I have map 1 on an otherwise stock vehicle and no bucking. Expecting all the other parts inbound over the next few days.
I think the bucking is a heat/ignition timing related issue. I think it depends on what gas a lot of people run as well as elevation, average weather, humidity, etc. Another thing I ran into as well was a chassis fault code to do with the communication between the ABS module and the Drivetrain Control Module that would pop up only sometimes if you tried to push the boost way too hard in map 6 when it is really hot out. My Jeep ran funny until I noticed the code and cleared it, then all was normal again. That is just another possibility. Naturally this platform and PCM targets more load as ambient temp increases in order to satisfy set torque targets within the PCM. In a nutshell, the colder the weather, the lower the boost, the hotter the weather the higher the boost. In stock form in the dead of winter I'm seeing ECU targets of only 15psi sometimes, On a scorching day in the summer Ill see PCM targets of near 22psi. The problem is that we're stuck with additive boost instead of absolute boost for map 6 as of right now, because of this if you are going to run Map 6, it's best to tune it on the hottest day possible; what runs good consistently in the heat, will have no problems in the cold. In order to reduce the chance of any bucking, Run the highest octane available to you, E20 or even E30 mix, better breathing exhaust and intake helps as well, methanol injection is another. The more mods you have to keep your ignition timing up, such as what I mentioned above, will keep the bucking away and you'll be able to push the boost higher in Map 6 and get away with it with good looking logs. This also applies to map's 1,2 and 3 as well, only difference is that they are preset. If I remember correctly:

Map 1 - peak 4psi tapering to 2psi at redline
Map 2 - peak 5psi tapering to 3psi at redline
Map 3 - peak 6psi tapering to 4psi at redline

Just keep in mind that the PCM targets will fluctuate with ambient outside temperatures quite a bit and for example, while you may be able to get away with running Map 3 in cooler weather, as it starts to heat up, you may notice the bucking starting to happen. An update to the JB4 to support absolute boost settings for this platform in map 6 would be a god send. The boost by gear doesn't seem to work as well, any amount higher than 1 psi placed in any cell makes my Jeep go crazy under WOT and the engine sounds like an engine brake on an 18 wheeler until I lift my foot off the gas. My Jeep use to buck in Map 2 when it was really hot out when it was bone stock and now that I have intake, exhaust, switched to running 94 octane instead of 91, running a meth kit with a single BM10 injector and ported the turbo and cylinder head, I am able to run quite a bit more boost in map 6 even over map 3 now. I think in the summer I hit about 28 ish psi peak and I can hold 27psi right to redline; trading about 1 lbs of boost for 1-1.5 degrees of timing at the very top from about 4,800rpm to 5,300rpm. So the top end pull is much harder now over the preset maps that taper quite a bit.

Last edited by Wade.JL; 04-18-2022 at 01:43 PM..
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SmokinV10 SmokinV10 is offline
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Default 04-24-2022, 10:20 AM

So after a few hundred miles I had the harsh “cutoff” in Map
1. Terry needs to get the addressed. The JB4 is essentially useless unless you build your own tune

Moving onto map 6 I have it set at 4.5 then 5 across the board until 5k rpm where it drops to 2.6. So far that’s been fine.
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Default 04-24-2022, 05:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinV10
So after a few hundred miles I had the harsh 田utoff in Map
1. Terry needs to get the addressed. The JB4 is essentially useless unless you build your own tune

Moving onto map 6 I have it set at 4.5 then 5 across the board until 5k rpm where it drops to 2.6. So far that痴 been fine.
If you can post the log of the "cut off" we can evaluate it better.


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Wade.JL Wade.JL is offline
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Default 04-30-2022, 08:27 AM

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Originally Posted by Payam @ BMS
If you can post the log of the "cut off" we can evaluate it better.
Was a decent day out today so I got a couple of logs. Long story short I'm pretty sure the truck is running out of fuel. First log is with meth pump fuse pulled out, and instantly off the bat, the first pull, it bucked on every single gear change and I watched as the trims stay pegged at 49. Put the meth pump fuse back in, trims peaked 46 at the highest and 40 or so at the lowest, no more bucking at all; AFR's looked a little better too. Tried to adjust the FOL from 60 all the way to 90 and no change to the trims what so ever which makes me think that feature isn't setup or working properly, I don't know if it is or not. This all makes sense for others who are having bucking issues even on map 1. If it's hot enough out and the PCM is seeing 22psi and map 1 is set for 4 over stock, you are now sitting at roughly 26 lbs of boost, and without any supplementary fueling like meth injection, which I know is not supposed to be used as additive fueling for a vehicle that can't supply it's own fuel adequately, I can see how map 1 can make some people's rigs buck just after a shift if the trims spike for a quick second just after the up shift. Map 6 solves the problem, at least in Smokin'V10's case because he said he requested 5 lbs peak over stock, which in map 6 doesn't = 5 lbs in logs, map 6 always seems to have lower targets from what you actually request by about 2 or 3 lbs depending on how much you ask for. So Smokin'V10 could actually only be requesting 3 lbs or so over stock which wouldn't be enough to peg out the trims, hence no more bucking issue for him. These logs are using 94 octane fuel and a single BM10 injector. With the BM10 I am able to target more boost without bucking over the single BM7 injector to add as well. I believe for map 6 users, absolute boost settings would allow a more controlled boost curve in all weather conditions to be able to dial a tune in better and not have to fudge with it all the time based on ambient temp. FOL control would be nice too. I'm looking to make a strip setup out of my rig and when I go big turbo, I want to have as much control with the JB4 as possible so I can hit low 12's or high 11's in the 1/4. With the GTX2871 going in next year, the extra fuel is going to be a must, for myself at least, and I want to try to avoid going with an HP Tuners setup if I can. I want to show others what the JB4 is capable of because a lot locals seem to think the big cost difference is worth it for a full flash tune, and it is vastly superior to JB4 which I believe is just not the case, because I've showed up some other flash tuned cars when I was in the VW world and they couldnt keep up with me on drag strip cruise nights; they couldn't believe my car was tuned only with JB4, they thought I was lying.

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Default 04-30-2022, 09:05 PM

Ok I checked the logs and you're pretty much right on the money. Bucking is because fuel trims are being maxed out. That's why no bucking with the extra supplemental fueling from the methanol.

FOL feature does not work in this platform as we don't have a connector to the fuel rail. (We'll work on that in the future to see if it has any benefits)

Are you running 50/50 water/methanol? If so, then 100 methanol might make a bigger difference to bring fuel trims down and timing up. I see timing corrections so might want to take it back a couple psi.

Do you have room for dual nozzles? Maybe dual BM7s? That should be enough for when you put the larger turbo on. However, we do suggest getting a flash tune when going larger turbo and stacking the JB4 together. Have a basic flash file to fix fuel trims with a decent boost profile and let the JB4 do the rest for your maps when wanting higher boost etc.


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Default 05-01-2022, 08:12 AM

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Originally Posted by Payam @ BMS
Ok I checked the logs and you're pretty much right on the money. Bucking is because fuel trims are being maxed out. That's why no bucking with the extra supplemental fueling from the methanol.

FOL feature does not work in this platform as we don't have a connector to the fuel rail. (We'll work on that in the future to see if it has any benefits)

Are you running 50/50 water/methanol? If so, then 100 methanol might make a bigger difference to bring fuel trims down and timing up. I see timing corrections so might want to take it back a couple psi.

Do you have room for dual nozzles? Maybe dual BM7s? That should be enough for when you put the larger turbo on. However, we do suggest getting a flash tune when going larger turbo and stacking the JB4 together. Have a basic flash file to fix fuel trims with a decent boost profile and let the JB4 do the rest for your maps when wanting higher boost etc.
As of right now I am using just -40 rated blue washer fluid. The MSDS sheet says it's about 40% methanol content, so a 40/60 mix. I'll be buying jugs of methyl hydrate at my local hardware store and start mixing my own, either 50/50 or 60/40. I'm not entirely comfortable with a 100% concentration as I tapped my washer fluid tank and still use it for my windshield, not to mention if I have a leak and something catches fire, it'll be hard to spot the flames. I also want to keep the corrosive properties of the meth as low as possible by keeping some water in the mix. I have since plugged the original spot where I had my meth injector which was right before the throttle body and now run my injector in the charge pipe right at the end of the turbo compressor outlet for better atomization. So I do have 2 tapped spots already placed in the charge pipe to run a T fitting and 2 injectors. In the meantime until the fuel rail and FOL get sorted I may go this route and either run 2 BM7's or even try just adding the BM7 I already have to my BM10, order a T fitting, bump my mix to 50/50 and see how that fairs. The ignition timing does pull back a little bit if I do multiple back to back runs and it gets hot which is not how I usually drive it, for the most part timing looks good any other time; I may play with the map 6 a little more to try and get the timing just right. I know there is a user on the Alfa Romeo forum who is running the same GTX hybrid turbo on his 2.0L and his JB4 runs it no problems and picked up a considerable bump in power. Just went to the track last night and pulled a 13.4@101 so it's moving pretty hard for a 4 cylinder Wrangler. I think with enough fuel, the stock turbo still has enough in it possibly for a 12.9 pass with another 2 or 3 mph tacked on to the traps. If you need any pictures of connectors or info from me regarding figuring out the fuel rail and FOL setup, just message me on the forum, I don't mind being the test mule for that. I'd bring my truck to you in person if I could but I'm literally 40 or 50 hours away so that's a no go.

One other concern I had is that I have my meth trigger mode set to 1, so I have no safety net, at least when I put the bigger turbo on, so I'm a little hesitant on running lean if the pump decides to crap out on me while I'm in full boost and WOT.

Last edited by Wade.JL; 05-01-2022 at 10:00 AM..
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Default 05-02-2022, 09:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wade.JL
As of right now I am using just -40 rated blue washer fluid. The MSDS sheet says it's about 40% methanol content, so a 40/60 mix. I'll be buying jugs of methyl hydrate at my local hardware store and start mixing my own, either 50/50 or 60/40. I'm not entirely comfortable with a 100% concentration as I tapped my washer fluid tank and still use it for my windshield, not to mention if I have a leak and something catches fire, it'll be hard to spot the flames. I also want to keep the corrosive properties of the meth as low as possible by keeping some water in the mix. I have since plugged the original spot where I had my meth injector which was right before the throttle body and now run my injector in the charge pipe right at the end of the turbo compressor outlet for better atomization. So I do have 2 tapped spots already placed in the charge pipe to run a T fitting and 2 injectors. In the meantime until the fuel rail and FOL get sorted I may go this route and either run 2 BM7's or even try just adding the BM7 I already have to my BM10, order a T fitting, bump my mix to 50/50 and see how that fairs. The ignition timing does pull back a little bit if I do multiple back to back runs and it gets hot which is not how I usually drive it, for the most part timing looks good any other time; I may play with the map 6 a little more to try and get the timing just right. I know there is a user on the Alfa Romeo forum who is running the same GTX hybrid turbo on his 2.0L and his JB4 runs it no problems and picked up a considerable bump in power. Just went to the track last night and pulled a 13.4@101 so it's moving pretty hard for a 4 cylinder Wrangler. I think with enough fuel, the stock turbo still has enough in it possibly for a 12.9 pass with another 2 or 3 mph tacked on to the traps. If you need any pictures of connectors or info from me regarding figuring out the fuel rail and FOL setup, just message me on the forum, I don't mind being the test mule for that. I'd bring my truck to you in person if I could but I'm literally 40 or 50 hours away so that's a no go.

One other concern I had is that I have my meth trigger mode set to 1, so I have no safety net, at least when I put the bigger turbo on, so I'm a little hesitant on running lean if the pump decides to crap out on me while I'm in full boost and WOT.
Ah that makes sense, definitely want to keep things safe.

Yes, you can go ahead and add the BM7 with the BM10 for testing. That should bring trims down even more.

We suggest using the methanol map and the additive number so all safety systems are in place.


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Default 05-02-2022, 09:54 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Payam @ BMS
Ah that makes sense, definitely want to keep things safe.

Yes, you can go ahead and add the BM7 with the BM10 for testing. That should bring trims down even more.

We suggest using the methanol map and the additive number so all safety systems are in place.
Ok that sounds like a plan. Just to clarify
1. What do I set my meth trigger mode to if I want it to only work on the meth map instead of any map?
2. Is the additive number in the meth setting page based on "x" psi above what's already set it in map 6? Or is it above map 0? Also is it "x" psi across the board at all rpm levels?
3. Meth map is map 7 right?

Thanks for your help

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Default 05-02-2022, 01:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wade.JL
Ok that sounds like a plan. Just to clarify
1. What do I set my meth trigger mode to if I want it to only work on the meth map instead of any map?
2. Is the additive number in the meth setting page based on "x" psi above what's already set it in map 6? Or is it above map 0? Also is it "x" psi across the board at all rpm levels?
3. Meth map is map 7 right?

Thanks for your help
1-You can set meth trigger mode back to 0
2-30 additive will mean +3psi over stock and has it's own boost curve. 45 will be +4.5psi etc.
3- I believe it is, I will have Terry confirm on the latest firmware.


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Default 05-02-2022, 02:26 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wade.JL
Ok that sounds like a plan. Just to clarify
1. What do I set my meth trigger mode to if I want it to only work on the meth map instead of any map?
2. Is the additive number in the meth setting page based on "x" psi above what's already set it in map 6? Or is it above map 0? Also is it "x" psi across the board at all rpm levels?
3. Meth map is map 7 right?

Thanks for your help
Payam has the right idea but I haven't programmed map7 yet for the Jeep. But I'll do it this week for you!


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Default 05-02-2022, 04:52 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Payam @ BMS
1-You can set meth trigger mode back to 0
2-30 additive will mean +3psi over stock and has it's own boost curve. 45 will be +4.5psi etc.
3- I believe it is, I will have Terry confirm on the latest firmware.
Perfect thanks a lot for the info.
One more question, when you say map 7 will have it's own boost curve, is it more akin to a boost curve like on maps 1,2 and 3, where boost peaks in the mid range and tapers down towards redline? Just asking because if you noticed on my last log with map 6 and meth on, I request quite a bit on the very top end to keep the actual boost curve as flat as I can. So with the boost curve flat and the ignition timing climbing slightly on the top end, my power band peaks right in the 5000-5300 rpm range, so it keeps pulling harder and harder the higher the rpm's climb, sort of like a Honda. The boost I like to keep a little lower in the low and midrange to save my rods and pistons and help with traction off the line. But I guess I'll see what the boost curve looks like on logs when map 7 is programmed.
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Default 05-02-2022, 04:53 PM

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Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Payam has the right idea but I haven't programmed map7 yet for the Jeep. But I'll do it this week for you!
That's awesome, thanks a bunch to you and Payam for taking the time to help me out and set all this up.
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Default 05-04-2022, 05:32 PM

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Originally Posted by Payam @ BMS
1-You can set meth trigger mode back to 0
2-30 additive will mean +3psi over stock and has it's own boost curve. 45 will be +4.5psi etc.
3- I believe it is, I will have Terry confirm on the latest firmware.
So I got a log with both injectors. BM10 is placed at the beginning of the charge pipe, BM7 at the end of the charge pipe. Everything looks a lot stronger and most definitely feels a lot stronger, timing looks a lot better and higher. The only thing that concerns me is the AFR, it got richer which I am not surprised about. This run wasn't bad, but some runs, at the very end of the power band, the AFR slowly dips to about 10.5 sometimes; this is in the 5,000-5,300 range right before an upshift. I'm thinking the BM10 and BM7 is a little too much volume wise. I think 2 BM7's like you suggested would be better, the BM10 and BM7 would be better suited for when I go hybrid turbo. Still using just plain old blue -40 washer fluid, mixing in more meth would make the AFR's worse. Trims definitely came down though which was the goal, not a single hint of bucking.
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File Type: csv Map 6, BM10 and BM7.csv (9.0 KB, 9 views)
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Default 05-05-2022, 09:55 AM

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Originally Posted by Wade.JL
So I got a log with both injectors. BM10 is placed at the beginning of the charge pipe, BM7 at the end of the charge pipe. Everything looks a lot stronger and most definitely feels a lot stronger, timing looks a lot better and higher. The only thing that concerns me is the AFR, it got richer which I am not surprised about. This run wasn't bad, but some runs, at the very end of the power band, the AFR slowly dips to about 10.5 sometimes; this is in the 5,000-5,300 range right before an upshift. I'm thinking the BM10 and BM7 is a little too much volume wise. I think 2 BM7's like you suggested would be better, the BM10 and BM7 would be better suited for when I go hybrid turbo. Still using just plain old blue -40 washer fluid, mixing in more meth would make the AFR's worse. Trims definitely came down though which was the goal, not a single hint of bucking.
Can you get me a log on map 0 to compare ign timing. It's still very very low even with all this octane.


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Default 05-05-2022, 11:30 AM

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Originally Posted by Payam @ BMS
Can you get me a log on map 0 to compare ign timing. It's still very very low even with all this octane.
For sure, will do that as soon as I can. Even on map 0 and bone stock, these engines push almost nothing for timing, right around 1-1.5 degrees on 91 octane, which is the dealer advised fuel to use. I have no idea why its programmed like that from factory, but Ill get that sent over to you soon.
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