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JeFizz JeFizz is offline
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Default 11-10-2021, 01:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Hybrid turbos sound very interesting for the platform!

On the post IC temp I still need to get a car in here to keep working on that. Worst case I can setup the JB4 to read it off the sensor directly if we can't find CANbus signals for it. Any volunteers who want to lend me your car for a day? Happy to pay for a rental.
Wish I could help out, but I'm in MN. lol
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Terry @ BMS's Avatar
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Default 11-29-2021, 12:09 PM

Changed IAT to reflect charge air temperature (post intercooler), hopefully. Load up and log V7_T4 to test it out.


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(#378)
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JeFizz JeFizz is offline
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Default 11-29-2021, 12:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Changed IAT to reflect charge air temperature (post intercooler), hopefully. Load up and log V7_T4 to test it out.
nice. I'll check it out.
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BBSBB BBSBB is offline
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Default 12-04-2021, 02:07 PM

Loaded 7_T5 and made few runs at +1C ambient temp. I also tried logging via Multi ECU Scan via OBD splitter (with JB4 Windows app/USB plug not connected to JB4) yet MES seems to freak out under WOT when logs get jagged. MES IAT temps were in range 37-41, JB4 logs when converted to Celcius : 27-35

MES: Dropbox - 2 MES.csv - Simplify your life

JB4: Dropbox - 211204_0222 ERR.csv - Simplify your life

JB4 (with unit conversions): Dropbox - 211204_0222 ERR.xlsx
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(#380)
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BBSBB BBSBB is offline
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Default Logging - 12-06-2021, 05:49 AM

Hey @Terry, I've recently installed JB4 and did quite of lot of road tests with lots of logs. A few discrepancies with MES caught my eye when comparing MAP0 JB4 logs. Hope it may help you make few fixes.

I have firmware version 29/7//5 (the most recent BETA that I downloaded on December 3).

Here're the issues I've found:
1. Boost and DME_BT seem to be reported incorrectly, from JB4 log it looks like boost target is consistently not met, yet it doesn't seem to be the case. See screenshot Name:  JB4.jpg
Views: 1138
Size:  136.7 KB
2. MPH reported seems to be lower than the actual speed - when comparing Dragy runs (e.g. 60-130MPH) while Dragy reported time in logs I didn't see MPH go above 130

Here's the log file from the screenshot: 1 - map 0.csv

Unfortunately I was not able to record MES logs with JB4 plugged, though I have a logs from a different day (+8C ambient, JB4 log was made at +1C ambient). Here's the XLS file with MES log: MES, +8C.xlsx.zip

In the XLS file if you scroll right you'll see side by side boost, boost target and MPH values for similar RPM which are reported by MES and JB4, MES absolute pressure in mbar converted to PSIG, as well as KPH to MPH (as well as adjusted to RPM point in JB4 log).

Here're some notes/remarks:
1. In MES the car constantly hits the target boost. Judging by the values in MES I suspect that JB4 is underreporting Boost and might be overreporting boost target.
2. MES and JB4 logs were made on different days and might it be the case that car is malfunctioning and on the day of testing it actually didin't hit the targets? That same day the case has shown better results than without JB4. Yet I don't have MES logs from the exact same day I believe the car is fine which is confirmed by better performance.
3. I don have ECU remap, my Giulia is not stock, same ECU remap was logged by MES and JB4
4. Pay attention to the 5th and 6th row in comparison table, JB4 reports same 98MPH while RPM went up from 5446 to 5628
5. MES has 0,8 second refresh period, the values in the single rows are not a freeze frame, i.e. it reads values one by one and within one row the might be a discrepancy

On a separate not, JB4 seem to round ignition timing to 0.5, making the rounding finer (e.g. to 0.1) could be a great feature.

I've got tons of logs from MES and now from JB4, happy to assist and provide more info. You can PM me if that is more convenient.

Thanks!
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bhvrdr bhvrdr is offline
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Default 12-15-2021, 09:11 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBSBB
Hey @Terry, I've recently installed JB4 and did quite of lot of road tests with lots of logs. A few discrepancies with MES caught my eye when comparing MAP0 JB4 logs. Hope it may help you make few fixes.

I have firmware version 29/7//5 (the most recent BETA that I downloaded on December 3).

Here're the issues I've found:
1. Boost and DME_BT seem to be reported incorrectly, from JB4 log it looks like boost target is consistently not met, yet it doesn't seem to be the case. See screenshot Attachment 104815
2. MPH reported seems to be lower than the actual speed - when comparing Dragy runs (e.g. 60-130MPH) while Dragy reported time in logs I didn't see MPH go above 130

Here's the log file from the screenshot: Attachment 104816

Unfortunately I was not able to record MES logs with JB4 plugged, though I have a logs from a different day (+8C ambient, JB4 log was made at +1C ambient). Here's the XLS file with MES log: Attachment 104817

In the XLS file if you scroll right you'll see side by side boost, boost target and MPH values for similar RPM which are reported by MES and JB4, MES absolute pressure in mbar converted to PSIG, as well as KPH to MPH (as well as adjusted to RPM point in JB4 log).

Here're some notes/remarks:
1. In MES the car constantly hits the target boost. Judging by the values in MES I suspect that JB4 is underreporting Boost and might be overreporting boost target.
2. MES and JB4 logs were made on different days and might it be the case that car is malfunctioning and on the day of testing it actually didin't hit the targets? That same day the case has shown better results than without JB4. Yet I don't have MES logs from the exact same day I believe the car is fine which is confirmed by better performance.
3. I don have ECU remap, my Giulia is not stock, same ECU remap was logged by MES and JB4
4. Pay attention to the 5th and 6th row in comparison table, JB4 reports same 98MPH while RPM went up from 5446 to 5628
5. MES has 0,8 second refresh period, the values in the single rows are not a freeze frame, i.e. it reads values one by one and within one row the might be a discrepancy

On a separate not, JB4 seem to round ignition timing to 0.5, making the rounding finer (e.g. to 0.1) could be a great feature.

I've got tons of logs from MES and now from JB4, happy to assist and provide more info. You can PM me if that is more convenient.

Thanks!

I went out and did controlled condition testing. 5th gear run within 5 minutes of each other and controlled for starting IAT so boost doesnt get impacted by that.

Here are the results:

5th gear pull with stratified IAT on same day / same session
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Default 12-15-2021, 09:26 AM

On the boost reading we scaled it to a mechanical gauge. Since it's an absolute pressure sensor the reading will vary depending on what ambient pressure the logging tool is using. Next time I have a car handy though I'll take a look.


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It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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sehinger sehinger is offline
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Default Newbie - here are some logs - 12-19-2021, 12:07 PM

Current setup -

2018 Stelvio Ti Sport
GFB Diverter
3" Ragazzon Catback
Sprinter Air filter

It felt strong and I haven't had any CEL's since installing JB4.


Here are some logs after 2 runs today on Map 2. Looking for feedback and areas of improvement.
Attached Images
 
Attached Files
File Type: csv DataLoggging Runs2.csv (22.4 KB, 49 views)
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bhvrdr bhvrdr is offline
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Default 12-19-2021, 04:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sehinger
Current setup -

2018 Stelvio Ti Sport
GFB Diverter
3" Ragazzon Catback
Sprinter Air filter

It felt strong and I haven't had any CEL's since installing JB4.


Here are some logs after 2 runs today on Map 2. Looking for feedback and areas of improvement.
Looks good!

Next time try 5th gear from 2k rpm to redline in manual mode.

Last edited by bhvrdr; 12-19-2021 at 05:05 PM..
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BBSBB BBSBB is offline
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Default 01-07-2022, 12:26 AM

@Terry, is there a capability to limit boost at higher gears rather then at lower gears as it is possible now?

Giulia 2.0 has lower boost targets at gears 1 through 4, at 5th boost target is maximal and it is typically when CEL occurs. Limmiting boost at gears 5 and above would help with that issue and allow utilizing maximum boost in the widest speed range.

I do understand in the UI of JB4 app (Windows) there's no such field (one can input boost limits for 1st, 2nd and 3rd) though if there's smth to change in a settings file in HEX and run some CMD line tool - I'd be willing to try.
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(#386)
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Default 01-07-2022, 09:58 AM

Sure we can work up something for that. Post up some logs of what you're referring to.


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It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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(#387)
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BBSBB BBSBB is offline
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Default 01-08-2022, 03:31 AM

Here's the log:

As you can see, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th gears have boost levels going up:
Name:  Giulia logs.jpg
Views: 338
Size:  389.8 KB
1 211229_0302 100-200.csv.zip

P.S.: Since December I've flashed 3 firmware beta versions into JB4, though it doesn't seem that CSV log file has firmware version changed.
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(#388)
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Default 01-10-2022, 09:51 AM

It's not gear that is increasing boost, it's following IAT, since the targeting is load based not boost based. Note when IAT drops at the end boost follows.


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It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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(#389)
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BBSBB BBSBB is offline
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Default 01-10-2022, 10:08 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
It's not gear that is increasing boost, it's following IAT, since the targeting is load based not boost based. Note when IAT drops at the end boost follows.
Makes sense.. Thanks!
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bhvrdr bhvrdr is offline
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Default 01-12-2022, 07:00 AM

Ongoing Hybrid Turbo validation with jb4. Bottom line its going awesome. Avoiding all the issues the tuners have been facing with limiters and wastegate maps trying to tune the hybrid.

Alfa Romeo Giulia 2.0l with 400hp Hybrid Turbo - boost and intake temperatures -- 29psi!!! - YouTube

Alfa Romeo Giulia 2.0l with 400hp Hybrid Turbo - boost and intake temperatures -- 29psi!!! - YouTube

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(#391)
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Default 01-12-2022, 09:07 AM

Looks like it's coming along nicely!

Normally you'd want to scale off a mechanical pressure gauge, since electrical gauges are subject to variances such as the zero position and voltage scaling...


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 01-23-2022, 02:38 AM

@Terry, thinking of adding BMS WMI to my JB4 on 2.0 Giulia. A few questions:
1. Are there any installs on 2.0 Giulia you know off and can share detail (insights into installing, feedback)?
2. How is the mounting supposed to look like? Where to pot nozzle, what kind of adapter to use etc?
3. Giulia has intercoller mounted on the intake manifold, which means that if nozzle is onstalled before throttle body somewhere on the charge pipe, the nozzle will be spraying in hot area before the IC. On the internet forums people say there's no sense to put WMI nozzle before the IC, yet on 2.0 Gilua there's no other way to install (it doesn't seem there's any room to try and do port injection and have 4 nozzles on the mainfold).
4. JB4 to BMW WMI connection, I beleive it is just 2 control wires going from JB4 brick to WMI (plus 2 power wires coming to WMI pump). Is that right?
5. JB4 setup, using Windows app and Meth tab should be enough to have all configured?
6. Can Map6 be used with WMI?
7. How do I try and test WMI (see whether pump and nozle work OK, connections do not leak) not having everyhting connected and set-up on the car?
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08fordgt 08fordgt is offline
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Default 01-24-2022, 10:28 AM

Hello,
First time posting. I'm Keith. I’ve read through the entire thread. It seems that you guys keep Terry very busy lol. It’s great to see awesome customer service. I just ordered my JB4 and look forward to the gains. I've only had my car, 18 Giulia Ti Sport Q4, for almost 2 months and I've already done EC V2 intake, turbosmart DV, and supersprint sport exhaust. I can't wait to do some acceleration times even though I have the heavy sunroof option.
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08fordgt 08fordgt is offline
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Default 01-26-2022, 09:43 PM

I got my JB4 today. Installed it and I only had time to do a few pulls. First one on map 1 in N mode, 2nd and 3rd in map 2 in N mode, then I remembered to putt it in dynamic on map 2 for the last pull. It's not letting me upload my pictures though.
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todd92 todd92 is offline
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Default 02-04-2022, 02:23 PM

I just installed a JB4 2022 2.0 Giulia and get dreaded 'Service Electronic Throttle Control" error and also jb4 Bluetooth connect not found?

EDIT: Problem solved, install error. I've installed JB4's on multiple other cars with no issues, but got plugs upside down this time.

Last edited by todd92; 02-04-2022 at 03:24 PM..
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todd92 todd92 is offline
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Default 02-08-2022, 12:01 PM

Finally got the OBD routed through the grommet. Map 2. Did a quick 5th gear log, 1st got stuck behind traffic, 2nd I shut it down at 100 MPH. Look OK?
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Cannon @ BMS Cannon @ BMS is offline
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Default 02-08-2022, 12:05 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by todd92
Finally got the OBD routed through the grommet. Map 2. Did a quick 5th gear log, 1st got stuck behind traffic, 2nd I shut it down at 100 MPH. Look OK?
Please upload the logs CSV files for assistance. Thanks!


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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(#398)
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bhvrdr bhvrdr is offline
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Default 02-09-2022, 06:32 AM

Damn that looks great. I assume you can feel quite the difference. Youre doing very well up top.
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todd92 todd92 is offline
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Default 02-09-2022, 06:50 AM

This difference is dramatic, especially 2500-4000 RPM. I just switched to your MAP 6, I'll do another log soon.
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08fordgt 08fordgt is offline
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Default 02-13-2022, 01:01 PM

Does the jb4_alfa_5 firmware monitor knock on IGN 2-5?
Does alfa_7_T9 have the fix for the rough idle?
Which software should I run?
How exactly do I post a log for someone to review?
When I run Alfa 7 I believe it's showing knock (IGN 2-5 but I'm still getting positive ignition timing IGN 1) even on map 0 but if I run Alfa 5 I get no knock.
Thank you in advance for assistance.
Keith
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