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tymwalk tymwalk is offline
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Default WMI - 09-18-2021, 03:16 PM

I wanted to create a thread focused on the development of water methanol injection(WMI) for the Mazda 2.5T and share how I installed my WMI. When I saw that Burger Motorsports was developing a JB4 unit for the Mazda 2.5T, I became really interested in working on a platform that was new and could use some support. I decided to go ahead and install WMI as a means to eliminate heat soak but the more I saw pictures of the 2.5T engine being pulled apart, I am glad I am running the WMI to keep the valves clean.

I purchased the universal WMI kit from Burger and used other components as I deemed necessary. I appreciate how I can control the WMI settings from the app.

The current firmware for the Mazda 2.5T only supports a setpoint boost level that the pump turns on and sprays. It is not progressive but more of a drag setup currently because of the beta status.

There are no power gains running WMI currently as the timing does not increase past a 93 octane fuel IMO. The BM7 nozzle in a drag set up actually lowered power by ~15hp. The WMI will be necessary when boost is increased or auxiliary fueling is used to keep trim levels in check.

Mazda CX-5 WMI - Album on Imgur

Meth Tank - Snow Performance 3L (Engine bay mounted but trunk mounted is superior)
Meth Pump - Burger Motorsports
Filter - AEM 30-3003 (40 microns)
Solenoid - Burger Motorsports (has a filter on inlet side as well)
Check Valve - Snow Performance
Nozzle mount - Snow performance silicone nozzle adapter
Nozzle - BM7 (7gph)
FSB for JB4 - WMI control board from Burger Motorsports
Low level switch - Snow Performance float switch
50/50 Water Meth- Snow Performance Boost Juice

Looking forward to a firmware update to allow a progressive flow rate. I am thinking about changing the nozzle to the BM5 if the firmware won't be available for some time.

Last edited by tymwalk; 09-18-2021 at 03:26 PM..
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cuzed2 cuzed2 is offline
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Default Encouraged to see this additional development effort - 09-18-2021, 05:31 PM

Good on you for taking the lead on these additional efforts. I will be following along (for the additional education) and am hoping as the JB4/2.5T moves beyond Beta, that your own efforts will complement and add to the potential gains. Please keep contributing and sharing
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Terry @ BMS's Avatar
Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
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Default 09-19-2021, 09:50 AM

On the to-do list is to enable PWM WMI control so we can reduce the flow based on need. I'm not convinced it's making less power under meth flow but probably not helping much either at this point.

Have you tried straight meth rather than 50/50 mix?


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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tymwalk tymwalk is offline
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Default 09-19-2021, 02:47 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
On the to-do list is to enable PWM WMI control so we can reduce the flow based on need. I'm not convinced it's making less power under meth flow but probably not helping much either at this point.

Have you tried straight meth rather than 50/50 mix?
Terry,

I am willing to run straight meth on the dyno if you are interested in the data, but the goal is to maintain the engine bay mounted tank at 50/50.

I have attached a log of a 3rd gear pull. Based on what the trim is doing over the length of the pull, what do you think about going from the BM7 to the BM5 nozzle?

I am convinced that the WMI is reducing power because the dyno rental where I generated the numbers consisted of 12 pulls. This is the sequence that we had the WMI in for the pulls {ON ON ON OFF OFF OFF ON ON ON OFF OFF OFF}. The tuner I was working with was pretty dumbfounded but felt there was sufficient evidence that the WMI was "quenching" combustion and no additional timing was being added by the ECU.
Attached Files
File Type: csv P3_M2_R1_210919_1411.csv (7.9 KB, 43 views)
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Terry @ BMS's Avatar
Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
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Default 09-19-2021, 05:00 PM

If octane isn't a limiting factor and in a low load environment like a dyno where heat soak isn't as much of a factor, results make sense.

With the V1 harnesses specially until we get MAF target up and running to get boost target up there is probably a minimal benefit on any nozzle. So I wouldn't do much until we can get boost up and really evaluate it.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Honeybadger Honeybadger is offline
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Default 09-21-2021, 10:25 PM

Wonder if a battery relocate would allow us a better tank capacity for WMI. Can combine it with an interchiller and coolant tank for it.

Once we get o2 control, those two items (or one or the other) should allow us a pretty significant gain.
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tymwalk tymwalk is offline
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Default 09-24-2021, 04:50 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Honeybadger
Wonder if a battery relocate would allow us a better tank capacity for WMI. Can combine it with an interchiller and coolant tank for it.

Once we get o2 control, those two items (or one or the other) should allow us a pretty significant gain.
This is an interesting proposal! I am satisfied with the size of the water methanol tank that is mounted in the engine bay of my Mazda CX-5. It only sprays when I am under WOT so the tank lasts long enough to not be burdensome.

You can calculate your WMI tank needs by using the JB4's autolog feature. Since autologging occurs at ~WOT, you can calculate the time (in hours) you will need WMI and multiply that by 7 gallons per hour. That will tell you how much auxillary fuel you will need under your driving conditions.

I highly recommend for a true track car or 65% methanol and higher applications that the tank be mounted in the trunk. My engine bay mount is not the safest place to have a tank of fuel.

In regards to relocating the battery, I will not be relocating the battery unless it is necessary to upgrade the turbo inlet piping. I look forward to the day that I am relocating the battery so a bigger turbo and inlet piping can be mounted.

I'm pretty clueless when it comes to air/water intercoolers since my CX-5 has air/air which I am common to. There has been a lot of talk about coolant expansion or aftermarket interchiller work for the m3t but I think there is more bang for your buck in directing more cold air towards the intake.

This is similar to what I did for the CX-5 to reduce IATs and I will not be replacing the intercooler because of it. The intercooler efficiency is still in the range it needs to be. I upgraded the intake to a short ram intake and installed a heat shield around it. The heat shield did NOTHING when I first installed it and the datalogs proved that. I spent time adding heat reflection tape to the heat shield and added a silicone skirt to keep the radiator heat that the fan is moving around away from the intake. I then modified the air dam that moves air towards the ram intake to enable higher flow into the heat shield. This didn't cost much but dramatically improved my IATs. It improved them more than any aftermarket intercooler would.

I would use the JB4 as a way to prove what you are doing is having a positive impact on IATs.
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Honeybadger Honeybadger is offline
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Default 09-24-2021, 08:20 AM

I'm actually working on some intake box solutions atm, and some hood designs with additional heat venting and an intake port (will make a scoop with large diameter hosing too).

I may end up doing the WMI and an interchiller both, as then I can use either. I'm leaning towards the interchiller myself since it's pretty easy to set up and works as an expansion to an already existing system.

But I wish to have WMI available too to work in conjunction or as a standalone if I need to switch off the interchiller for whatever reason. Also allows me to test both side by side and tune for either. I'm working with a few to do ECU tuning, but it's going to need the JB4 as a little help for air limits and WMI.
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tymwalk tymwalk is offline
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Default 09-24-2021, 08:47 AM

Good stuff!

Keep in mind that WMI is also supplementing fuel demand. At some point the boost target is going to require more fuel than the stock fuel pump can give regardless of IAT.

The o2 control would allow that limit to run a little further with a less rich mixture but there is still a ceiling.

I'm interested in how your work turns out. Be sure to give updates.
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Honeybadger Honeybadger is offline
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Default 09-24-2021, 08:55 AM

Don't think we are near stock fueling limits yet, haha. Another reason for me to be ready with WMI! ��

I love the JB4, going to be a useful tool in unlocking the car! I'll keep updates posted around here
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cuzed2 cuzed2 is offline
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Default 10-18-2021, 06:28 AM

@Honeybadger

Any updates?
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Honeybadger Honeybadger is offline
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Default 10-19-2021, 12:02 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuzed2
@Honeybadger

Any updates?
None yet. Shipping issues and work are keeping me busy.

Hoping to get the box going in a few weeks.
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