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Default 02-09-2019, 05:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross_T_Boss
I ran an 11.38@121 last night, stock -300DA. Previous 11.55@119, -1700DA. Only change was 2litres of 1:1 Meth:E97 in with half a tank and about 25kg less fuel. I'm going to try 3litres next, can't see much more in it though. I'd be confident in getting her into 10s with the JB4.
I would rather play with ethanol unless that is what you using. I can recall in our email you mentioned meth but direct injectors don't play well with it.


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burnmacs burnmacs is offline
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Default 02-09-2019, 06:20 PM

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Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
I think less boost more timing is probably the way to go all else being equal.
How much timing will the ECU add naturally by just mixing in some E85 to say E20/30?
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tegxsi tegxsi is offline
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Default 02-09-2019, 06:33 PM

I think ECU logic gradually add timing and backs off when knock is detected. Basically the ECU learns and adjusts to the better quality fuel.


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Default 02-09-2019, 06:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by burnmacs
How much timing will the ECU add naturally by just mixing in some E85 to say E20/30?
With a JB4 you can watch the timing system at work. It's a traditional by cylinder knock correction for short term, with a long term octane adaption. So adding in good fuel will definitely improve timing all else being equal, at least up until the long term octane adaption maxes out.


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andym3100k andym3100k is offline
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Default 02-10-2019, 01:55 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
The various user interfaces. A change like that would present major headaches for numerous other platforms we support so is a no-go.

Options for this are a FUD setting that makes map6 all "subtract" or a FUD setting where 10.0psi for example is the zero point. Anything below subtracts anything above adds.
Terry, setting it at 10.0psi seem good to play it around


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Default 02-10-2019, 10:13 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by tegxsi
I think ECU logic gradually add timing and backs off when knock is detected. Basically the ECU learns and adjusts to the better quality fuel.
Yes, it will detect knock and adjust timing. But it will also allow knock to happen if your combo is too aggressive (but only for a very short time).

This log is from switching fuel from ~E20 to straight pump E85. I changed flash maps before I left the gas station, but apparently the tank did not mix well right away. Pinging was very audible. See below.
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2018 Audi RS3 | APR Stage 1 E85 | JB4 | APR FMIC

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SOLD: 2007 E90 335i | PS2's | JB4 | 160k+ miles on the car, 120k+ miles on the JB4

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tegxsi tegxsi is offline
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Default 02-10-2019, 11:24 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullitt1841
Yes, it will detect knock and adjust timing. But it will also allow knock to happen if your combo is too aggressive (but only for a very short time).

This log is from switching fuel from ~E20 to straight pump E85. I changed flash maps before I left the gas station, but apparently the tank did not mix well right away. Pinging was very audible. See below.
When switching fuel you need to take it easy and drive the car for about 10-15 minutes and get the old stuff out of the lines.
I've tuned flexfuel Subarus with Cobb software... It's so nice to have a sensor feeding to the ECU and adjusting on the fly as E85 mixes.


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Default 02-10-2019, 11:44 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by tegxsi
When switching fuel you need to take it easy and drive the car for about 10-15 minutes and get the old stuff out of the lines.
I've tuned flexfuel Subarus with Cobb software... It's so nice to have a sensor feeding to the ECU and adjusting on the fly as E85 mixes.
I never had this noticeable of an issue with the N54 and B58 platforms. Maybe the way the tanks and fuel pickups are designed, there is a small difference

But yes, as you can see how I backed off pretty quickly, I test the fuel's performance by logging and watching the gauges before going too hard on it. Guess I just need to be a bit more patient on this car.

Once I put my old Fuel-It ethanol sensor on this car I'll have a better idea of how quickly it's mixed in. Then Terry can work on his flex-fuel JB4 tuning


2018 Audi RS3 | APR Stage 1 E85 | JB4 | APR FMIC

SOLD: 2017 F36 440i Gran Coupe | PS2 | JB4

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Default 02-10-2019, 11:48 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by andym3100k
Terry, setting it at 10.0psi seem good to play it around
I guess the main thing is to make it as intuitive as we can.

Right now map6 boost @ 1500rpm determines how map6 is scaled. 7.2psi or less, makes it an additive map, 7.3psi or more, makes it an absolute map. If customers don't want to both add and subtract boost by RPM in the same map another option would be something like this:

1500: 0psi - makes map6 a subtraction map
1500: 0-7.2psi - makes map6 an additive map
1500: 7.3+psi - makes map6 an absolute map

The 7.2psi cut off is sort of arbitrary maybe we could adjust that to 5.0psi? Or 2psi?

Then we still have boost by gear layered in, which is setup as a subtraction mode right now. So for example 5psi in 1st subtracts 5psi from 1st gear regardless of the boost target. Right now, that is set not to go below the flash boost levels but I'll fix that today.

I've found I have to limit boost in 1st gear to get a clean bounce free launch on our 20" rims.


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(#185)
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Default 02-10-2019, 12:15 PM

There's no way to make the 1,500 field accept something like 0=subtractive, 1=additive, and 2=absolute? I kind of understand the 7.2/7.3 reasoning, but does the JB4 actually adjust targets at 1,500 RPM or is it just an interface placeholder?

Also, do we need a BCM for any of this?


2018 Audi RS3 | APR Stage 1 E85 | JB4 | APR FMIC

SOLD: 2017 F36 440i Gran Coupe | PS2 | JB4

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(#186)
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Default 02-10-2019, 12:17 PM

RPM1500 is actually active for the tuning, although we could disable that and have it target RPM2000 for anything lower than 2000rpm.

The BCM is used when you want to add WGDC. For +-2-3psi won't be needed. If you want to ADD more than 2-3psi probably going to be useful.


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Default 02-10-2019, 12:27 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
RPM1500 is actually active for the tuning, although we could disable that and have it target RPM2000 for anything lower than 2000rpm.

The BCM is used when you want to add WGDC. For +-2-3psi won't be needed. If you want to ADD more than 2-3psi probably going to be useful.
OK, but for us flash guys that only want to subtract (for now) we shouldn't need it? I'm already able to run Map 8 that the JB4 targets at ~18 PSI instead of a DME BT of ~22 PSI.

Also, what if I wanted to subtract more than that for only 1st gear?


2018 Audi RS3 | APR Stage 1 E85 | JB4 | APR FMIC

SOLD: 2017 F36 440i Gran Coupe | PS2 | JB4

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Default 02-10-2019, 12:30 PM

So then you'd use the hypothetical rpm1500 = 0 option, and maybe enter 2psi across the board to subtract 2psi from your current target. Then you might set 1st gear boost to say 4psi to subtract an EXTRA 4psi in 1st gear for launching purposes. So you'd get -6psi in 1st gear, and -2psi in all other gears.


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It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 02-10-2019, 02:08 PM

Sounds good to me!


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SOLD: 2017 F36 440i Gran Coupe | PS2 | JB4

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Default 02-10-2019, 04:00 PM

It's coded up and seems good in my quick testing. Ready to go for anyone who wants to help test it. Just email me.


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andym3100k andym3100k is offline
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Default 02-10-2019, 04:26 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
So then you'd use the hypothetical rpm1500 = 0 option, and maybe enter 2psi across the board to subtract 2psi from your current target. Then you might set 1st gear boost to say 4psi to subtract an EXTRA 4psi in 1st gear for launching purposes. So you'd get -6psi in 1st gear, and -2psi in all other gears.
Sounds good, how about if we only want to subtract on 1st gear for launching(usually a lot of wheel spin) & increase the rest of the gear (2-7) for more boost? How to set it up in map 6? Which option to choose from? (1500rpm = 0-2)?


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Default 02-10-2019, 06:11 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by andym3100k
Sounds good, how about if we only want to subtract on 1st gear for launching(usually a lot of wheel spin) & increase the rest of the gear (2-7) for more boost? How to set it up in map 6? Which option to choose from? (1500rpm = 0-2)?
Easy. Using map6 set all values to 2psi adding 2psi over your flash map, then set 1st gear boost limit to 2psi to subtract 2psi only in 1st gear.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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andym3100k andym3100k is offline
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Default 02-10-2019, 06:18 PM

Perfect! JB4 FTW


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Default 02-10-2019, 07:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Easy. Using map6 set all values to 2psi adding 2psi over your flash map, then set 1st gear boost limit to 2psi to subtract 2psi only in 1st gear.
So boost limit by gear is always a subtract, no matter what 1,500 is set to?

Is it then a subtract from DME BT or a subtract from JB4 target/already added or subtracted target?


2018 Audi RS3 | APR Stage 1 E85 | JB4 | APR FMIC

SOLD: 2017 F36 440i Gran Coupe | PS2 | JB4

SOLD: 2007 E90 335i | PS2's | JB4 | 160k+ miles on the car, 120k+ miles on the JB4

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Default 02-10-2019, 09:35 PM

Yes boost by gear is always subtract.


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It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 02-10-2019, 09:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Yes boost by gear is always subtract.
OK, from DME BT or an additional subtraction on top of the already subtracted?


2018 Audi RS3 | APR Stage 1 E85 | JB4 | APR FMIC

SOLD: 2017 F36 440i Gran Coupe | PS2 | JB4

SOLD: 2007 E90 335i | PS2's | JB4 | 160k+ miles on the car, 120k+ miles on the JB4

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Default 02-10-2019, 09:56 PM

The subtraction is from whatever the JB4 boost target is.


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It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 02-10-2019, 10:12 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
The subtraction is from whatever the JB4 boost target is.
Perfect


2018 Audi RS3 | APR Stage 1 E85 | JB4 | APR FMIC

SOLD: 2017 F36 440i Gran Coupe | PS2 | JB4

SOLD: 2007 E90 335i | PS2's | JB4 | 160k+ miles on the car, 120k+ miles on the JB4

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Default 02-11-2019, 06:39 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by George @ BMS
I would rather play with ethanol unless that is what you using. I can recall in our email you mentioned meth but direct injectors don't play well with it.
Hi George

I did indeed. What issues have you come across with Methanol and DI? Added neat to the tank or as part of a blend? It's a much lesser used alcohol so I value any experience with it.

Pump fuel in EU commonly contains 2-3% Methanol (with 3-4% Ethanol acting as a co-solvent) to mitigate phase separation concern, there is no requirement for corrosion inhibitors. Elsewhere in the world 5-15% is become more prevalent (only with inhibitor additives), above that needs more consideration.

I could stick with Ethanol but there's significant cost and supply advantages to using Methanol here, hence pursuing it, even if it's only 20-30% of the additive. I've so far only used 3% Methanol, I am trying to source a proper corrosion inhibitor before considering >5%.
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Default 02-11-2019, 06:45 AM

I've been emailing George about this already, but just to see if there is any consensus from the masses - I'm having an issue where the JB4+BCM (no flash) will give plenty of boost and act accordingly (regardless of map) and then 10 minutes later, simply give nothing at all (and by nothing, I mean it will simply not generate boost) - It's as if the car has been tossed into map 8, however when I check via my phone it's map 0-3. This has happened from a set gear at a dig from low RPM, as well as from a stand-still launch.

Anybody else? or just me?


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