N54Tech.com - International Turbo Racing Discussion
(#176)
Old
DennisPacMo's Avatar
DennisPacMo DennisPacMo is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 132
Join Date: Nov 2015
Car: 335xi
Default 04-14-2016, 11:55 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jyamona
+1 to this. OMG can't run 100% E85 on a stock LPFP? No ****, welcome to 2013. EGT's taken from the ******** are worthless, as well as a few other data points collected. So far none of this data is turning anything on it's head.
He's showing you about 25% of the data he has. Trust me. He's going to provide some really informative data on stuff that isn't out there in the public yet. His commitment to getting the data is pretty over-the-top. I witnessed this yesterday. Stay tuned. It's a good thread to check in on every week or so and catch up on the new info.


.
Reply With Quote
(#177)
Old
Traf Traf is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 226
Join Date: May 2015
Car: 2009 135i Coupe
Default 04-14-2016, 12:08 PM

This is great but please, change font and make your graphs a little more easy to read


f*** v-bands clamp
Reply With Quote
(#178)
Old
AWSAWS's Avatar
AWSAWS AWSAWS is offline
Demigod
 
Posts: 1,550
Join Date: Aug 2014
Car: 335i MSport DCT
Default 04-15-2016, 06:47 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyt





UK FBO 335i, ̶V̶T̶T̶ ̶G̶C̶s̶ China 19T, JB4, PI meth, BMS CP, OCC, Braided brake lines. Diff Lockdown. TMAP sensor, custom bucketless stage2

11.79@119mph on stockers, CP meth (UK, Santa Pod)
11.74@129mph on GCs, custom port meth injection.
Reply With Quote
(#179)
Old
AWSAWS's Avatar
AWSAWS AWSAWS is offline
Demigod
 
Posts: 1,550
Join Date: Aug 2014
Car: 335i MSport DCT
Default 04-15-2016, 06:49 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DennisPacMo
He's showing you about 25% of the data he has. Trust me. He's going to provide some really informative data on stuff that isn't out there in the public yet. His commitment to getting the data is pretty over-the-top. I witnessed this yesterday. Stay tuned. It's a good thread to check in on every week or so and catch up on the new info.
I think you clearly have no idea who you just replied to...



jyamona has been the one decoding the N54 DME and is exposing new features weekly. He's the one who knows more about this than any of us here.


UK FBO 335i, ̶V̶T̶T̶ ̶G̶C̶s̶ China 19T, JB4, PI meth, BMS CP, OCC, Braided brake lines. Diff Lockdown. TMAP sensor, custom bucketless stage2

11.79@119mph on stockers, CP meth (UK, Santa Pod)
11.74@129mph on GCs, custom port meth injection.
Reply With Quote
(#180)
Old
DennisPacMo's Avatar
DennisPacMo DennisPacMo is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 132
Join Date: Nov 2015
Car: 335xi
Default 04-15-2016, 08:00 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AWSAWS
I think you clearly have no idea who you just replied to...



jyamona has been the one decoding the N54 DME and is exposing new features weekly. He's the one who knows more about this than any of us here.
I think you clearly have no idea as to what I was referring. We aren't talking DME data. I'm talking hard data on the function of components before and after installation. Like I said, you're only seeing 25% of the data that Doug has gathered and it's all before and after component data. I really can't discuss what all he has because it's not my data and not my testing, therefore it's not my right but when I said there are surprises in his data, I mean it.


.
Reply With Quote
(#181)
Old
DennisPacMo's Avatar
DennisPacMo DennisPacMo is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 132
Join Date: Nov 2015
Car: 335xi
Default 04-15-2016, 08:04 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AWSAWS
I think you clearly have no idea who you just replied to...



jyamona has been the one decoding the N54 DME and is exposing new features weekly. He's the one who knows more about this than any of us here.
I think you clearly have no idea as to what I was referring. We aren't talking DME data. I'm talking hard data on the function of components before and after installation. Like I said, you're only seeing 25% of the data that Doug has gathered and it's all before and after component data. I really can't discuss what all he has because it's not my data and not my testing, therefore it's not my right but when I said there are surprises in his data, I mean it. What you're seeing is only the tip of the iceberg. When you are making larger frame turbos for stock configuration, a lot of R&D goes in to it.


.
Reply With Quote
(#182)
Old
A418t81's Avatar
A418t81 A418t81 is offline
One tire fire
 
Posts: 87
Join Date: Jan 2008
Car: E92 335, 6MT
Default 04-15-2016, 08:13 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jyamona
+1 to this. OMG can't run 100% E85 on a stock LPFP? No ****, welcome to 2013. EGT's taken from the ******** are worthless, as well as a few other data points collected. So far none of this data is turning anything on it's head.
Thinking like that keeps you from seeing beyond the tip of your nose. Innovation comes from testing the presumed limits yourself and drawing your own conclusions rather than going on presumed notions and hearsay. There's nothing the slightest bit wrong with how Doug is doing his testing. I think it's hilarious that you guys are on a hardware high horse with him. His ******** data has already shaken the foundation of the presumed efficacy of that modification. People don't want to believe it because of bias and "common sense," but research many times shows that expected results do not follow what we expect to see.

Let the man do his own thorough testing from top to bottom without scoffing. It's good for the entire community and I have a feeling in the end, these people will look foolish much like the whole "the earth is flat" crowd.


'18 Magnetic Gray Raptor
'19 GT3 RS Weissach
'09 997.1 6MT: FBO, 65mm VTGs. 730 whp
'18 Nardo Gray RS3 APR stage 2, 10.72 @ 130
Reply With Quote
(#183)
Old
AWSAWS's Avatar
AWSAWS AWSAWS is offline
Demigod
 
Posts: 1,550
Join Date: Aug 2014
Car: 335i MSport DCT
Default 04-15-2016, 09:11 AM

OK prove us wrong


UK FBO 335i, ̶V̶T̶T̶ ̶G̶C̶s̶ China 19T, JB4, PI meth, BMS CP, OCC, Braided brake lines. Diff Lockdown. TMAP sensor, custom bucketless stage2

11.79@119mph on stockers, CP meth (UK, Santa Pod)
11.74@129mph on GCs, custom port meth injection.
Reply With Quote
(#184)
Old
Cloud9Blue Cloud9Blue is offline
Senior Member
 
Posts: 898
Join Date: Dec 2010
Car: 09 E92 335i
Default 04-15-2016, 09:37 AM

I will say this. A real engineer won't be using excel spreadsheet to plot all these data...

Data on EGT and backpressure would be nice to have for sure. But all these things about fuel pressure and pump upgrades are known for ages.

Maybe just update the thread when the actual product is ready and do a detailed comparison of the stock turbos vs the upgraded ones. And present all the data and conclusions in a nice summarized post instead of spreading it out in a dozen pages or so. Maybe the people will be more inclined to read the whole thing.

I personally see no value in regurgitating all these already known info on the stock components...


09 BMW E92 335i: EFR 7670 / Motiv / AP Racing / Wavetrac / TC Kline [Full Modlist]
07 BMW R1200S: Shine Yellow / Akrapovic / Ohlins
Reply With Quote
(#185)
Old
Slawekn1 Slawekn1 is offline
New Member
 
Posts: 6
Join Date: Apr 2016
Car: 2008 BMW 535xi
Default 04-15-2016, 09:51 AM

I personally find this thread very informative and actually like the systematic approach. I am a process improvement engineer my self and this is how i would approach the problem if tasked with researching the potential improvement to a known system. He is testing the known factors to verify the assumptions first and I am sure that he will continue to search for further improvement once he arrives a the currently know limit level. I actually appreciate that someone is putting their time into this and don't see how this could harm the platform growth overall.

If you think this is a waste of time then that's OK. It not your time after all.

If you think this has been covered so far and there is nothing new here yet than that is fine too. Let the guy just keep his notes here from his experiments. I don't see any harm in that.

If you see a flaw in his method and care to point it out then do it too. maybe we will all learn something from it.

But don't just come here and be like "you have not shown anything new - until you have something original and new to say - you are prohibited from posting" if we go that path ...half of the post here would have to be deleted.

I for once am excited that there are people looking into improvement for the platform as a whole and if it works out then i am sure it will be easy to verify before you purchase a set from FrankenTurbo.
Reply With Quote
(#186)
Old
Element's Avatar
Element Element is offline
Senior Member
 
Posts: 583
Join Date: Jun 2013
Car: BMW 135i N54
Default 04-15-2016, 09:54 AM

I'm puzzled as to why anyone cares about his product development methodology and feels the need to weigh in simply to mock him for going about it this way.

I'll agree he's not doing anything groundbreaking so far and some data borders on useless, but if that is his process and he's taking the time to illustrate/share his results (even if they simply verify what is already known) what exactly are you taking issue with?

Surely the end product is in fact what should be scrutinized?

Last edited by Element; 04-15-2016 at 11:46 AM..
Reply With Quote
(#187)
Old
brokenvert's Avatar
brokenvert brokenvert is offline
Guy with the pet snails
 
Posts: 89
Join Date: May 2010
Car: 135i vert
Default 04-15-2016, 11:13 AM

A lot of people in this thread seem to underestimate the power of confirmation.

You all want new products and then mock a company for trying to be thorough while doing just that? Have some patience for christs sake


Motorsport Photographer, PM for Pricing on Car Shoots - mattkalish.com

Reply With Quote
(#188)
Old
brokenvert's Avatar
brokenvert brokenvert is offline
Guy with the pet snails
 
Posts: 89
Join Date: May 2010
Car: 135i vert
Default 04-15-2016, 11:50 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud9Blue
I will say this. A real engineer won't be using excel spreadsheet to plot all these data...
You clearly dont know real engineers if you say that. Excel is perfect for laying out values and performing simple manipulations. It gets even better when you learn how to use VBA.

Hell I liked using excel so much that ive actually represented my data tables in excel, written that data into a text file, imported that file into matlab to perform complex operations, and then brought that data back into excel for final analysis.

Its a very powerful tool thats perfect for a lot of engineering applications. Because SPOILER, a lot of engineering work is done using very simple closed equations. Why? Because at one point in time number crunching was done by rooms full of people hand-doing math with sliderules and approximating with a simple formula was necessary to get results quickly.


Have you ever heard of velocity triangles? Well thats the simple way to design turbomachines. I can approximate a perfect turbo design for this car with one piece of paper and a basic knowledge of geometry. Why? Because thats how initial design work was done for years! Its how its still done now.


Motorsport Photographer, PM for Pricing on Car Shoots - mattkalish.com


Last edited by brokenvert; 04-15-2016 at 11:55 AM..
Reply With Quote
(#189)
Old
Cloud9Blue Cloud9Blue is offline
Senior Member
 
Posts: 898
Join Date: Dec 2010
Car: 09 E92 335i
Default 04-15-2016, 02:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by brokenvert
You clearly dont know real engineers if you say that. Excel is perfect for laying out values and performing simple manipulations. It gets even better when you learn how to use VBA.

Hell I liked using excel so much that ive actually represented my data tables in excel, written that data into a text file, imported that file into matlab to perform complex operations, and then brought that data back into excel for final analysis.

Its a very powerful tool thats perfect for a lot of engineering applications. Because SPOILER, a lot of engineering work is done using very simple closed equations. Why? Because at one point in time number crunching was done by rooms full of people hand-doing math with sliderules and approximating with a simple formula was necessary to get results quickly.


Have you ever heard of velocity triangles? Well thats the simple way to design turbomachines. I can approximate a perfect turbo design for this car with one piece of paper and a basic knowledge of geometry. Why? Because thats how initial design work was done for years! Its how its still done now.
With all due respect, I find people that often brag about their own credential online rarely has anything else to show for... Especially with long winded post like that that isn't even relevant to the discussion. I bet you are one of those guys who use spreadsheet to play KSP too, lol.

op could have done a way better job with data representation than posting hundreds of excel plots. Does he have good info? Yes of course. But does everyone here on this forum have a background in science or engineering and have the patience to dig through all of these charts, hell no. So I can perfectly see why some of the posters are frustrated with his post and will just dismiss it as a boring marketing gimmick even if his original intention could be far from it.

Data can be presented in a much better format than this. And excel, as powerful as it can be, is far ideal for this purpose, especially if it is just being used to generate some very basic 2D plots... Just post up all the data and the development process when the product is ready for the market. Generating hypes and long ass thread about a yet to exist product rarely works out for any vendor.


09 BMW E92 335i: EFR 7670 / Motiv / AP Racing / Wavetrac / TC Kline [Full Modlist]
07 BMW R1200S: Shine Yellow / Akrapovic / Ohlins
Reply With Quote
(#190)
Old
doug@frankenturbo.com's Avatar
doug@frankenturbo.com doug@frankenturbo.com is offline
whoosh
 
Posts: 132
Join Date: May 2015
Car: Minivan, mountain bike
Default 04-18-2016, 07:35 PM

Alrighty. Some lively conversation a goin' on while we've been breaking in that clutch. And for those of you who pooh-pooh graphs, this is most certainly not the thread for you. Come to think of it, this is not even the POST for you.

Check your head! Here comes a graph!




That's better! The engine sweeps through the revs now just as it should. So what's the fueling system doing without that slipping clutch's rev "blip"?



Even with the solid performance from that Fuel-It! LPFP we're still dealing with that swale of pressure drop through the mid-range. And fuel trims overall are decidedly on the positive side of the scale. The ECU is having to add fuel to meet its Lambda command levels.




But it is not throwing any codes and the data otherwise look very good:




Ignition advance continues to hold strong with virtually no knock or corrections.




But still there is that troubling drop-off in pressure in the fuel rail circuit. Here is a comparison to conditions when running pure gasoline.




This behavior isn't unique to our test car. Fuel-It! themselves posted very informative data on the use of ethanol mixtures here. Their research along with our own data point to a salient challenge for our product development: the stock N54 engine system can't muster enough fuel to support an F23Bi design. In fact it can't even really support plain-jane E85 fueling with the stock turbos.

So what truly qualifies as "Full Bolt Ons"? If you ask me, you can't be FBO without addressing that fueling system.


Next up: our first "appearance mod". The M3 replica bumper. But might it be more than just a pretty face?



Reply With Quote
(#191)
Old
Cloud9Blue Cloud9Blue is offline
Senior Member
 
Posts: 898
Join Date: Dec 2010
Car: 09 E92 335i
Default 04-19-2016, 05:07 PM

I will say this, you guys should do a bit research on this guy's work on previous platform and his reputation. Fake compressor maps? Rebranded eBay parts? These are just some of the stuff that comes up with a bit of background digging.

Posting little graphs of information we mostly know for years don't impress people who is educated on this platform.


09 BMW E92 335i: EFR 7670 / Motiv / AP Racing / Wavetrac / TC Kline [Full Modlist]
07 BMW R1200S: Shine Yellow / Akrapovic / Ohlins
Reply With Quote
(#192)
Old
ms335i ms335i is offline
Senior Member
 
Posts: 576
Join Date: Jul 2015
Car: 2007 BMW 335i
Default 04-19-2016, 08:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud9Blue
I will say this, you guys should do a bit research on this guy's work on previous platform and his reputation. Fake compressor maps? Rebranded eBay parts? These are just some of the stuff that comes up with a bit of background digging.

Posting little graphs of information we mostly know for years don't impress people who is educated on this platform.
Come on man we get it. Let him do as he pleases. He hasn't sold anything crappy to anyone in the n54 crowd, he hasn't stolen from customers like some vendors have. He hasn't sold batches and batches of smoky turbos like some vendors have.

All he is doing is posting info you and some of the more advanced people know. There are people joining this forum and many other n54 related forums everyday, and all this info to the new people is gold. It is a very good display of data that shows which mod does what and how it affects the car. Just think of all the posts about "Intercooler or *** next". "next mod?" "Are *** worth it" "Is a intercooler worth it" "Do I need a stage 2 pump".

All of those posts can be eliminated if some dude randomly clicked on this post and read up on all the info. I think it's great. It might not help you and the other advanced engineers and physicists and enthusiasts, but it can help newbies.

So just let him do as he pleases and give the guy a chance.
Reply With Quote
(#193)
Old
Bimmer 808 Bimmer 808 is offline
New Member
 
Posts: 27
Join Date: Sep 2015
Car: 2010 335i
Default 04-19-2016, 09:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud9Blue
I will say this, you guys should do a bit research on this guy's work on previous platform and his reputation. Fake compressor maps? Rebranded eBay parts? These are just some of the stuff that comes up with a bit of background digging.

Posting little graphs of information we mostly know for years don't impress people who is educated on this platform.
Please start your own thread with your information on FrankenTurbo for the good of the community, if you have any, and stop being a troll on this thread.


2010 E90 335i M Sport, MT - BMW PE, VRSF 7in; Cobb AP; K&N; RB PCV; VRSF CP; Turbosmart KPB BOV; M3 Cowl; VRSF Cerakote ***; Carly coding; ECS Scoops; ECS Strut Tower Brace; Ziza interior LEDs; FuelIt! Stage 2; Diff lock down brace V2; MHD E60 Map from BuraQ; Mishimoto OCC;

previous BMWs: 1991 E36 325i; 1997 E36 328i; 2006 E90 330i
Reply With Quote
(#194)
Old
bnk bnk is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 474
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default 04-19-2016, 09:39 PM

Nice that people are doing the testing rather than relying on internet "truths".
Reply With Quote
(#195)
Old
Cloud9Blue Cloud9Blue is offline
Senior Member
 
Posts: 898
Join Date: Dec 2010
Car: 09 E92 335i
Default 04-20-2016, 01:36 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer 808
Please start your own thread with your information on FrankenTurbo for the good of the community, if you have any, and stop being a troll on this thread.
Not trying to be a troll. Just want to offer an unbiased view, without the blind fanboyism that is so common in these car forums. Plenty of info on this vendor on bb and e90ppst. And audi/VW forums, as well as YouTube. Don't believe everything on the Internet of course. But you can form your own opinion with info from multiple sources.

As I said a few posts back, I was gonna give this vendor a benefit of doubt. But knowing what I know now, all these reposts of long acknowledged info just seems like a way to create an illusion of actual R&D work (all these data about duty cycles, fuel trim, rail pressure were all posted by bms and fuel it a long time ago, just FYI). Much like the fake compressor map this vendor did on other platforms. Would you rather spend your hard earned money with a vendor who has falsified data before?


09 BMW E92 335i: EFR 7670 / Motiv / AP Racing / Wavetrac / TC Kline [Full Modlist]
07 BMW R1200S: Shine Yellow / Akrapovic / Ohlins

Last edited by Cloud9Blue; 04-20-2016 at 01:42 AM..
Reply With Quote
(#196)
Old
brokenvert's Avatar
brokenvert brokenvert is offline
Guy with the pet snails
 
Posts: 89
Join Date: May 2010
Car: 135i vert
Default 04-20-2016, 06:39 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud9Blue
Not trying to be a troll. Just want to offer an unbiased view, without the blind fanboyism that is so common in these car forums. Plenty of info on this vendor on bb and e90ppst. And audi/VW forums, as well as YouTube. Don't believe everything on the Internet of course. But you can form your own opinion with info from multiple sources.

As I said a few posts back, I was gonna give this vendor a benefit of doubt. But knowing what I know now, all these reposts of long acknowledged info just seems like a way to create an illusion of actual R&D work (all these data about duty cycles, fuel trim, rail pressure were all posted by bms and fuel it a long time ago, just FYI). Much like the fake compressor map this vendor did on other platforms. Would you rather spend your hard earned money with a vendor who has falsified data before?

If you're so critical of frankenturbo posting information that we've already heard you should know that everything you've said on this page is already known.

Hell it came earlier in this very thread.


So thanks for repeating information, but I already know it so you've just wasted your time and mine.
That's how this works, right?


Motorsport Photographer, PM for Pricing on Car Shoots - mattkalish.com

Reply With Quote
(#197)
Old
Cloud9Blue Cloud9Blue is offline
Senior Member
 
Posts: 898
Join Date: Dec 2010
Car: 09 E92 335i
Default 04-20-2016, 07:56 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by brokenvert
If you're so critical of frankenturbo posting information that we've already heard you should know that everything you've said on this page is already known.

Hell it came earlier in this very thread.


So thanks for repeating information, but I already know it so you've just wasted your time and mine.
That's how this works, right?
If this vendor previous issues with other platform was already posted earlier, then I apologize for not seeing it and reposting the same stuff again.


09 BMW E92 335i: EFR 7670 / Motiv / AP Racing / Wavetrac / TC Kline [Full Modlist]
07 BMW R1200S: Shine Yellow / Akrapovic / Ohlins
Reply With Quote
(#198)
Old
AbacusRacingN54 AbacusRacingN54 is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 309
Join Date: Aug 2014
Car: 07 335i
Default 04-20-2016, 08:05 AM

Apparently he doesn't have high hopes for his turbos if he went with a stock replacement clutch...or he's got deep pockets to buy another one when this one takes a poo
Reply With Quote
(#199)
Old
N54QC N54QC is offline
Senior Member
 
Posts: 774
Join Date: Jan 2016
Car: 07 BMW 335i
Default 04-20-2016, 10:02 AM

They need to make a sticky that is a drama/complaint thread. That way everyone who wants to complain about this thing or another can get together and bash and it will keep from clogging up certain threads on useless comments. I don't like inserting myself in this stuff, but some of these threads turn into like a drama show on MTV. It might be useless information to a certain degree, but I'm ignoring most of it and waiting for there products to come out and be proven and I'll make my judgment then. Until then, I'll just check into the latest conversation just to see what's being discussed and look for new information I might find interesting. Getting involved in all this bickering is a waste and puts a damper on a good forum when the whole execution should be working together and helping others figure out issues to try to make this the best platform!
Reply With Quote
(#200)
Old
bigdnno98's Avatar
bigdnno98 bigdnno98 is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 425
Join Date: Nov 2011
Car: e92 335i
Default 04-20-2016, 11:40 AM

At the end of the day, his product is either going to work or it's not. I'm just here enjoying the read and looking at his data. We'll see how it goes.


2011 335is DCT, FBO
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




vBulletin Skin developed by: vBStyles.com
Copyright 2007 - 2020, N54tech.com