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Unhappy Weird gas gauge issues. Need some input. - 07-25-2014, 02:04 AM

Hey guys. Recently I switched my DIY Stage 1 255 inline fuel kit for a SteveAz Stage 2 kit. Since then I have had issues with the fuel gauge reading incorrectly. My gauge was working correctly before the install. The gauge never goes any higher than just under 3/4 of a tank and will go as low as about 1/8th. Unfortunately these levels occur without any regard to the actual fuel in the tank in that they are never displaying the right fuel amount. I have talked with Steve and ruled out any hardware issues. Apparently some cars may need to adapt.

I have taken the following the steps without any resolution:
1. Removed neg battery cable for 15 minutes and reattached.
2. Reflashed my backend using the BB software doing a full forced write.
3. Did menu 1/5 to reset the gauges via JB4.
4. Did JB4 1/7 reset adaptations.
5. Did the hidden OBD menu 21 reset which resets the gauge cluster (I think the JB4 1/5 reset is doing the same thing?)
6. Did the hidden OBD menu 2 gauge cluster check which was normal.
7. I even took the Stage 2 back out and replaced the float level sensor with one off my stock unit that I know was in good working order. The levels changed slightly but seem to report the same incorrect ranges as before.
8. I used to always have 'boost on fuel' with no stealth but I have since turned it off. The first time I installed the Stage 2 kit this was enabled. It was turned off when I took out the Stage 2, changed the float sensor and reinstalled. I know the JB4 can alters the gauges so not sure if that is the issue.

Still I am stuck with a gauge that reads incorrect. Anyone that runs an E85 blend knows how important it is to estimate how much fuel is remaining to determine your mix at the next fill up. This is more of a crap shoot now.

Has anyone else had this problem? Solutions? One note is that my battery is 'low'. A week or so ago I got a low battery discharge warning. My battery voltage via BT software is 11.7 when the ignition is on (lights are on). Running I am seeing about 13.5-13.7. I put the battery on a trickle charge and the warnings went away. Looking back my voltage has always been <12v even 6 months ago but I am thinking about just replacing it to see if that could be an issue. I do not drive the car daily. Just really stumped here.

This is certainly NOT a post to knock the Stage 2 kit! The kit is awesome as has been Steve's customer support! As I mentioned above I am using a different float sensor than came with the kit so it wouldn't make a difference if I put a stock bucket in. I would still have the same issue. I am just hoping someone else has had this issue and has some different insight. It just drives me nuts not being able to fix it


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Default 07-25-2014, 07:59 AM

I had this problem had to pull it out and move the inline pump cause it was in the way of float problem fixed


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Default 07-25-2014, 08:45 AM

During installation you didn't make sure that the inline pump was clear of the gas float. There are two floats, one for full tank to 1/2 tank and one for 1/2 tank to empty. Both of them are under the back seat, one passenger side and one driver side. You'll need to get back in there and either move your inline pump clear of the float or redo the install.
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Default 07-25-2014, 09:07 AM

There's no inline with the stage 2 so nothing is in the way of the float.


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Default 07-25-2014, 09:40 AM

The Stage 2 kit has no inline pump to get in the way of the float sensor. It looks like a stock bucket except instead of a stock LPFP there is an E85 certified Walbro 450. The float sensor clips into the bucket as it normally would. It is a very clean set up. I have verified that the bucket is installed correctly and that the float is in the correct orientation. As I mentioned above I have even taken the whole bucket out and replaced the float sensor with no improvement. As far as the sensor on the drivers side it would be a complete fluke that it died at the same time as the install. It's also not an easy replacement as you have to replace the whole unit as the drivers side sensor cannot be replaced individually.


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Myrder Myrder is offline
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Default 07-25-2014, 11:04 AM

Since you have tried a bunch of different options, have you tried unplugging the sensor while the car is on and plugging it back in? Just throwing out ideas as it seems you have tried a lot of others...


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Default 07-25-2014, 11:07 AM

Not sure if its relevant but I noticed the driver side connection also has to be connected for the gauge to work. I unplugged it one day and gauge got stuck at some level. Other than that has to be a float issue I'd think.


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Default 07-25-2014, 11:58 AM

I'd be curious to know if others have run in to this issue as well after removing the fuse for the "LPFP" and running the car out of fuel.

I personally have never removed that fuse nor had this problem but I know somebody else had listed it in their procedure and this was protocol the OP used.

I'm guessing that fuse isn't just to the LPFP but is to the EKP module.

Edit: I'd also check and verify that the female pins to your cars connector haven't been "stretched" and aren't making good contact.



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Last edited by Steve @ BMS/Fuel-It!; 07-25-2014 at 12:08 PM..
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Default 07-25-2014, 02:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrder
Since you have tried a bunch of different options, have you tried unplugging the sensor while the car is on and plugging it back in? Just throwing out ideas as it seems you have tried a lot of others...
I did try that but no change though this thought did lead me to try plugging in a new bucket hat as I show below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Not sure if its relevant but I noticed the driver side connection also has to be connected for the gauge to work. I unplugged it one day and gauge got stuck at some level. Other than that has to be a float issue I'd think.
I didn't have the drivers side of the tank open so it couldn't have become un connected.

Since I have a whole separate stock bucket here I decided to try plugging in the bucket hat from with a float level sensor sitting on the seat area. I manually manipulated the float sensor with the ignition on and the gas gauge did go to full. This float sensor was the one that came with the Stage 2 kit and was in the car even with the issue present. So the only thing that is changed on this set up is the bucket hat itself. Of course it's not sitting in fuel but the next step will be to put it in the tank and see. Took some vids below.

http://youtu.be/L4yPDx3SWZE
http://youtu.be/nOx9FZJyMjM


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Last edited by musc; 07-25-2014 at 02:12 PM..
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Default 07-25-2014, 02:36 PM

The pins in the top hat, are just a pin that pierces the top hat itself, there is no internal connection and no opportunity for the impedance to change. They should measure zero ohms.

I have yet to see a bad float sensor...they all measure about 50 ohms at empty and 1000 ohms at full.

Again, I believe your ECU cal is off....and as I suggested, moving the float sensor to both limits a few times may help it to relearn.



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Default 07-25-2014, 10:09 PM

So I swapped out the bucket top hat and reinstalled everything and sure enough, the problem is STILL there I plugged in the external float sensor into the top hat I just pulled out and repeated the experiment in the videos and it moves correctly just as it did before. Steve told that changing the float sensor the first time and changing the bucket hat this time would not work and was certainly right. Curiosity was getting to me so I had to try. The float sensor is not impeded by anything in the tank and when the top hat is locked in the bucket should be forced to the bottom of the tank in the correct position.

Well at this point I am fully frustrated. Just seems weird my car requires adaptation and the majority don't. I am going to replace the battery tomorrow as I got some warning lights again. I am hoping maybe a low battery is screwing with things. This time i disconnected everything but I didn't touch the fuse.

If anyone knows anything about reseting this adaptation please let me know. I have the BT cable software and a friend has all the INPA type stuff. Not sure if a ECU reset would help here or not. Cross my fingers that the new battery registering helps.

Feel free to chime in anyone!


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Default 08-06-2014, 06:00 PM

Figured I would update. So I still have this issue. I haven't drove the car in about 10 days so really haven't had a chance to see if this is an adaptation issue. I did try ECU reset and other resets via BT and no improvement. I did see two errors related to the junction box and cluster all related to the right float level sensor which is the one tied to the LPFP bucket. It said the errors were not present but I have cleared them and I am curious to see if they will return. There was mention of short circuit or signal interruption so I am curious if that could be a voltage issue like a weak battery? I posted some pics below.

I have narrowed the problem down to the right (passenger) level float sensor. When I do the hidden OBD menu 6 that shows the levels of each side of the tank, the drivers side shows 27.5 liters and passenger 10.1 liters with a full tank. I had my friend check his E92 on a full tank and his levels were 27.5/35.0 on a full tank (equals 16.5 gallons). So for some reason my passenger sensor reads low at a full tank. As I mentioned earlier I have tried changing out the sensor with no improvement.

I finally got around to getting a battery and it's sitting in the garage just need to install. I am crossing my fingers it alleviates the problem.
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Default 08-07-2014, 02:58 PM

I would really like to know if others that have had this issue have done the same thing.

Since you pulled the fuse and ran your car out of gas. I wonder if the DME was confused because it was receiving a signal from the float sensor that there was fuel in the tank...but knew the car ran out.

What codes do you get when you do this? Does the car just die and no codes? Does it tell you that you've run out?

FTR...there is absolutely no reason to pull the fuse and run the car out of fuel. The lines in the top hat are just vent lines, there should be no fuel in them. The line in the tank is no longer pressurized...I've changed tons of pumps just after the car has been turned off. I have never had a float level sensor error or fuel spray anywhere. Now if you're working with the rail....that's a different story.

The reason in my procedure I say to disconnect the battery and let the car sit over night...just a pre-caution. There is an exhaust system under the tank...don't want fuel hitting a hot exhaust. Also, when the car goes to sleep...it primes the pump......However, no where in my procedure do I say to pull that fuse and run the car out of gas, nor have I ever recommended that. That said...I can certainly understand the logic behind it...but it's just not necessary.



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Default 08-07-2014, 03:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveAZ
I would really like to know if others that have had this issue have done the same thing.

Since you pulled the fuse and ran your car out of gas. I wonder if the DME was confused because it was receiving a signal from the float sensor that there was fuel in the tank...but knew the car ran out.

What codes do you get when you do this? Does the car just die and no codes? Does it tell you that you've run out?

FTR...there is absolutely no reason to pull the fuse and run the car out of fuel. The lines in the top hat are just vent lines, there should be no fuel in them. The line in the tank is no longer pressurized...I've changed tons of pumps just after the car has been turned off. I have never had a float level sensor error or fuel spray anywhere. Now if you're working with the rail....that's a different story.

The reason in my procedure I say to disconnect the battery and let the car sit over night...just a pre-caution. There is an exhaust system under the tank...don't want fuel hitting a hot exhaust. Also, when the car goes to sleep...it primes the pump......However, no where in my procedure do I say to pull that fuse and run the car out of gas, nor have I ever recommended that. That said...I can certainly understand the logic behind it...but it's just not necessary.
Yeah the fuse thing was from the old DIYs when people first started doing the Walbro inlines. I did my first one back in October or so last year and pulled the fuse and never had an issue. The I have done 3 other cars aside from mine pulling it and no issues as well including one the same day I did my Stage 2. I guess the variable would be that I was the only one of those installs that had a stage 2, the rest were Stage 1 inlines. I seriously doubt that has anything to do with it. On the other cars there have never been any errors or codes from the fuel pump including my own car when it did it last year.

The last time I took the pump out to change the float sensor I left the fuse in and had no issues taking in it and out so you are definitely right about the fuse being a step that should be avoided.

I am starting to think the low battery may have something to do with it and the fact that I pulled the fuse and unplugged all that stuff when the battery was low. These cars are certainly sensitive to voltage changes. The battery was sitting around 11.7 with a multimeter and 11.3 with lights/ignition on as shown by the bimmerboost flash software. New battery goes in tonight so I am going to report back. Worse case scenario is that I put my stock bucket back in and take car as close to stock as I can and take it in to dealer and get it checked under factory warranty. Honestly I think the first thing they would do is replace a float sensor, lol.

As I mentioned earlier I don't think it has any to do with your kit and I promote your kits 110%. But you know from talking to me that I am determined to figure out what the problem is, lol. Hopefully I can determine it and keep someone else from going down this same road.

I will post tonight once I get the battery swapped and registered.


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Default 08-07-2014, 09:06 PM

Well I changed out the battery and registered the new one. Unfortunately it did not fix the problem. I drove around for 80 miles or so and the tank level went from constantly telling me I was on reserve fuel (low reading) to now it is reading empty. I know I have more than a 1/4 tank of fuel in car based on my normal mpg and miles driven on the tank. After the drive I fired up the BT software and none of the cluster or junction box codes returned. All I had were mixture shadow codes which I expect. So at this point I am just lost.

I could try putting my stock bucket back in but I am doubting that will do it since am actually using the float sensor and bucket hat off my stock set up already.

I am trying to avoid the dealer if possible as there is a new DME software out there for my car which for which there is no flash tune. I'd really hate to get stuck with that. I also read on another forum that the dealer has actually replaced the whole fuel tank in some cases.


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Default 11-14-2014, 05:54 PM

Old thread of mine but I felt it was worth updating. I recently took the Stage 2 out because I was going to take the car in for service and see if the dealer could figure out this gauge problem. In doing so I was able to finally see the problem. I very slowly let the bucket hat lift up and what I saw was my 45 degree fuel line bundy that goes into the pump was actually hitting the top of the float sensor keeping it from moving all the way up! I talked to Steve and we could see that my Stage 2 pump had a big tilt too it as well. I think this may have been from pulling on it during an install or even using a different fuel line bundy than the stock one causing it to sit funny. Steve shipped me out a new Stage 2 kit which has been improved and after I installed it, problem appears to be fixed! I am glad it was just a mechanical issue probably exacerbated by some left over hardware from my previous DIY inline install. Steve was always trying to help me along the way and his customer service is second to none!
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