N54Tech.com - International Turbo Racing Discussion
Go Back   N54Tech.com - International Turbo Racing Discussion > Model-Specific Engine Tuning & Modification Discussion > N54
Reload this Page Finally found the root cause of my smoking and oil consumption problem...
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
(#1)
Old
AUbeast86's Avatar
AUbeast86 AUbeast86 is offline
Senior Member
 
Posts: 764
Join Date: Nov 2012
Car: 2007 335i e92 Coupe
Default Finally found the root cause of my smoking and oil consumption problem... - 08-23-2015, 07:35 AM

What's scary is, this engine passed leak down and compression tests twice with flying colors, 165psi and 2% leak down across all cylinders with zero variance. It purred like a kitten and pulled like a raped ape.
As for the root cause of the bent rod, I'm leaning toward hydro-lock due to a faulty injector since it was only cylinder 1 but I also have other theories that'll I'll keep off this forum...
For those of you with smoking issues that you just can't seem to figure out, a$$hole puckered yet? LOL
N54 weeds out the weak...

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

Last edited by AUbeast86; 08-23-2015 at 07:56 AM..
Reply With Quote
(#2)
Old
terryd5150's Avatar
terryd5150 terryd5150 is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 123
Join Date: Apr 2015
Car: BMW 335xi
Default 08-23-2015, 08:01 AM

Good info; thanks for sharing.
Reply With Quote
(#3)
Old
Rob@RBTurbo's Avatar
Rob@RBTurbo Rob@RBTurbo is offline
Stalker
 
Posts: 4,036
Join Date: Feb 2009
Car: 335I
Default 08-23-2015, 08:32 AM

Fascinating case especially in that the engine diagnosis still comes back healthy. I guess I can see how in that the bend is ever so slight. So that at engine cranking speeds all could still appear well. It still is the same stroke and likely a very similar quench… but at engine running speeds apparently all bets are off.

Do you mind sharing under what conditions you'd normally see smoke? Was there any sort of audible knocking indicators?

Thanks for sharing.

Rob


See www.rbturbo.com for N54 Twin Turbo Bolt-On upgrades, or contact directly 314-630-8950 rob.rbturbo@gmail.com for a price quote.
Reply With Quote
(#4)
Old
AUbeast86's Avatar
AUbeast86 AUbeast86 is offline
Senior Member
 
Posts: 764
Join Date: Nov 2012
Car: 2007 335i e92 Coupe
Default 08-23-2015, 08:54 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo
Fascinating case especially in that the engine diagnosis still comes back healthy. I guess I can see how in that the bend is ever so slight. So that at engine cranking speeds all could still appear well. It still is the same stroke and likely a very similar quench… but at engine running speeds apparently all bets are off.

Do you mind sharing under what conditions you'd normally see smoke? Was there any sort of audible knocking indicators?

Thanks for sharing.

Rob
Agreed. This engine defies all conventional health diagnosis techniques, at least in this particular failure mode.
It would intermittently puff on start up but not smoke until oil temps were up to above 200F, then the smoke was constant. It would smoke during idle (especially if I revved it to 4K), roling into the throttle from low speeds and decel but those were the only times I could actually see it. The insane oil consumption (1qt/300miles) told me it was smoking constantly even though I couldnt see it at highway speeds.

On the bright side, the new PVC system I came up with during troubleshooting, incorporating your PCV valve and AD's -8AN fitting, significantly improved the condition so I am 100% convinced it will work for ST guys that are smoking due to PCV issues. I was able to see 20inHg at idle even with an OCC inline. RobC is doing a DIY on it now.
Until now, the PCV system wasn't completely understood but now I fully understand what needs to be there for this engine to function correctly, even at high boost levels. You need both of the stock valves (flapper + RB or stock PCV valve), just in an unconventional configuration. The mod is not for a novice in that it requires pluging the head ports and drilling and tapping your intake manifold for a -8AN to 1/2"NPT fitting.
Reply With Quote
(#5)
Old
Rob@RBTurbo's Avatar
Rob@RBTurbo Rob@RBTurbo is offline
Stalker
 
Posts: 4,036
Join Date: Feb 2009
Car: 335I
Default 08-23-2015, 09:07 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AUbeast86
Agreed. This engine defies all conventional health diagnosis techniques, at least in this particular failure mode.
It would intermittently puff on start up but not smoke until oil temps were up to above 200F, then the smoke was constant. It would smoke during idle (especially if I revved it to 4K), roling into the throttle from low speeds and decel but those were the only times I could actually see it. The insane oil consumption (1qt/300miles) told me it was smoking constantly even though I couldnt see it at highway speeds.

On the bright side, the new PVC system I came up with during troubleshooting, incorporating your PCV valve and AD's -8AN fitting, significantly improved the condition so I am 100% convinced it will work for ST guys that are smoking due to PCV issues. I was able to see 20inHg at idle even with an OCC inline. RobC is doing a DIY on it now.
Until now, the PCV system wasn't completely understood but now I fully understand what needs to be there for this engine to function correctly, even at high boost levels. You need both of the stock valves (flapper + RB or stock PCV valve), just in an unconventional configuration. The mod is not for a novice in that it requires pluging the head ports and drilling and tapping your intake manifold for a -8AN to 1/2"NPT fitting.
Thanks for the feedback.

And well agree on the PCV system, you are 100% correct. I've tried to make this clear many of times on the forums and am usually heckled out of existence. I've had a plan for about 2 years now, and have worked with RobC on his concept too. His initial path was not thought out well IMO, and this was my immediate response to the notion. His latest version is much better, but there is still a more ideal way to do it. Agree overall though that the PCV system needs an overhaul as from the OE was much under designed and is extremely susceptible to failure and/or flaky behaviors if all the stars are not aligned perfectly. In short the proper way to improve the PCV system has been long understood, just not by many.

Rob

(EDIT: I was banned from this thread so not sure if the link will work, but tried to share a lot of information on the matter here: http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...may-be-smoking )


See www.rbturbo.com for N54 Twin Turbo Bolt-On upgrades, or contact directly 314-630-8950 rob.rbturbo@gmail.com for a price quote.

Last edited by Rob@RBTurbo; 08-23-2015 at 09:22 AM..
Reply With Quote
(#6)
Old
AUbeast86's Avatar
AUbeast86 AUbeast86 is offline
Senior Member
 
Posts: 764
Join Date: Nov 2012
Car: 2007 335i e92 Coupe
Default 08-23-2015, 09:29 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo
Thanks for the feedback.

And well agree on the PCV system, you are 100% correct. I've tried to make this clear many of times on the forums and am usually heckled out of existence. I've had a plan for about 2 years now, and have worked with RobC on his concept too. His initial path was not thought out well IMO, and this was my immediate response to the notion. His latest version is much better, but there is still a more ideal way to do it. Agree overall though that the PCV system needs an overhaul as from the OE was much under designed and is extremely susceptible to failure and/or flaky behaviors if all the stars are not aligned perfectly. In short the proper way to improve the PCV system has been long understood, just not by many.

Rob

(EDIT: I was banned from this thread so not sure if the link will work, but tried to share a lot of information on the matter here: http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...may-be-smoking )
Yes, Rob's latest configuration (as of a few days ago) is basically a copy of mine. I have a full year of data to solidify my support of this configuration. It might not be the most "ideal" but it's the absolute best option we have. Too much vacuum and your seals will howl like a pack of Dire Wolves, too little vacuum and your engine will stall and choke out. Believe it or not, the flapper valve is where all the magic happens. There's a hole bridging the flapper under off-boost conditions that is of a finely calibrated cross-sectional area and that is what controls the vacuum that the MAP sensor is looking for but the other PCV valve's flow-rate is just as important.
I even went so far as to design this Vacuum Control Valve to test my theories...

[IMG][/IMG]

Last edited by AUbeast86; 08-23-2015 at 09:43 AM..
Reply With Quote
(#7)
Old
Rob@RBTurbo's Avatar
Rob@RBTurbo Rob@RBTurbo is offline
Stalker
 
Posts: 4,036
Join Date: Feb 2009
Car: 335I
Default 08-23-2015, 09:32 AM

Agree on all fronts. The best option becomes a costly one. And 100% you have to retain the vent hose flapper AND the PCV valve in some way shape or form if you want any sort of desirable out come from your PCV system.

Rob


See www.rbturbo.com for N54 Twin Turbo Bolt-On upgrades, or contact directly 314-630-8950 rob.rbturbo@gmail.com for a price quote.
Reply With Quote
(#8)
Old
robc1976's Avatar
robc1976 robc1976 is offline
Demigod
 
Posts: 1,557
Join Date: Mar 2012
Car: 2007 335i
Default 08-23-2015, 09:45 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AUbeast86
Yes, Rob's latest configuration (as of a few days ago) is basically a copy of mine. I have a full year of data to solidify my support of this configuration. It might not be the most "ideal" but it's the absolute best option we have. Too much vacuum and your seals will howl like a pack of Dire Wolves, too little vacuum and your engine will stall and choke out. Believe it or not, the flapper valve is where all the magic happens. There's a hole bridging the flapper under off-boost conditions that is of a finely calibrated cross-sectional area and that is what controls the vacuum that the MAP sensor is looking for but the other PCV valve's flow-rate is just as important.
I even went so far as to design this Vacuum Control Valve to test my theories...

[IMG][/IMG]
It 100% works, my smoking is 1000% gone! Working on DIY now.


JB4 G5, WEDGE flash, 455 LPFP, HFS-4 meth kit, BMS OCC, VM 6466 ST, RB valve, BMS DCI, 3" AR ***, Custom OC W/ SS lines, ER FMIC, ER CP W/HKS BOV, M3 control arms, M3 guide rods, M3 upper links, M3 front & rear sway-bars, HPA rear toe arms, Wavetrac LSD, HPF Gen 2 exhaust DEFIV kit, KW clubsort, Delrin solid subfrane bushings, stoptech rotors, Rogue Tranny Mounts, 1M bumper, M3 CF hood, MORR VS8.2 rims 245/295
Reply With Quote
(#9)
Old
robc1976's Avatar
robc1976 robc1976 is offline
Demigod
 
Posts: 1,557
Join Date: Mar 2012
Car: 2007 335i
Default 08-23-2015, 09:48 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo
Thanks for the feedback.

And well agree on the PCV system, you are 100% correct. I've tried to make this clear many of times on the forums and am usually heckled out of existence. I've had a plan for about 2 years now, and have worked with RobC on his concept too. His initial path was not thought out well IMO, and this was my immediate response to the notion. His latest version is much better, but there is still a more ideal way to do it. Agree overall though that the PCV system needs an overhaul as from the OE was much under designed and is extremely susceptible to failure and/or flaky behaviors if all the stars are not aligned perfectly. In short the proper way to improve the PCV system has been long understood, just not by many.

Rob

(EDIT: I was banned from this thread so not sure if the link will work, but tried to share a lot of information on the matter here: http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...may-be-smoking )
Rob lol! The initial one I just made a better version that was posted on BB lol! It's how it was supposed to be ran and agree was not thought out well but did work better than stock configuration. Aubeast new one works great!

Thanks for the oil pipe and valve, would have been screwed if not for your fast service!


JB4 G5, WEDGE flash, 455 LPFP, HFS-4 meth kit, BMS OCC, VM 6466 ST, RB valve, BMS DCI, 3" AR ***, Custom OC W/ SS lines, ER FMIC, ER CP W/HKS BOV, M3 control arms, M3 guide rods, M3 upper links, M3 front & rear sway-bars, HPA rear toe arms, Wavetrac LSD, HPF Gen 2 exhaust DEFIV kit, KW clubsort, Delrin solid subfrane bushings, stoptech rotors, Rogue Tranny Mounts, 1M bumper, M3 CF hood, MORR VS8.2 rims 245/295
Reply With Quote
(#10)
Old
Rob@RBTurbo's Avatar
Rob@RBTurbo Rob@RBTurbo is offline
Stalker
 
Posts: 4,036
Join Date: Feb 2009
Car: 335I
Default 08-23-2015, 10:22 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by robc1976
Rob lol! The initial one I just made a better version that was posted on BB lol! It's how it was supposed to be ran and agree was not thought out well but did work better than stock configuration. Aubeast new one works great!

Thanks for the oil pipe and valve, would have been screwed if not for your fast service!
Glad to hear a combination of drain and/or PCV improvements have corrected your issues!


See www.rbturbo.com for N54 Twin Turbo Bolt-On upgrades, or contact directly 314-630-8950 rob.rbturbo@gmail.com for a price quote.
Reply With Quote
(#11)
Old
rocky335i rocky335i is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 118
Join Date: Apr 2015
Car: e92 2007 335i
Default 08-23-2015, 11:18 AM

I also teared down my engine. Car was smoking contantly and a bad cylinder 5 misfire. Scored walls worse than yours, i dint do a compression test so not sure on that. But there was alot of oil in cylinder 5.
Reply With Quote
(#12)
Old
BostonBeemah's Avatar
BostonBeemah BostonBeemah is offline
Senior Member
 
Posts: 831
Join Date: Sep 2011
Car: AW 135i
Default 08-23-2015, 06:48 PM

Sorry to hear about your issue but thank you for sharing. Just curious if you saw any oil on the plug or any other indication that led you to tear the engine down?


2010 AW/BLK 135i VM 6465 Single Turbo, JB4 + MHD, VRSF CP & Tial, Big Tom, Fuel-It PI + Stage 3 + Return + Ethanol Sensor, BMW PE, MFactory LSD & Axles, Spec 3+ & MFactory SMFW, RB External PCV
Best stock turbo 12.5 @ 19.46 spinning all the way down
RIP 2008 AW/BL 135i
Reply With Quote
(#13)
Old
BostonBeemah's Avatar
BostonBeemah BostonBeemah is offline
Senior Member
 
Posts: 831
Join Date: Sep 2011
Car: AW 135i
Default 08-23-2015, 06:54 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo
Thanks for the feedback.

And well agree on the PCV system, you are 100% correct. I've tried to make this clear many of times on the forums and am usually heckled out of existence. I've had a plan for about 2 years now, and have worked with RobC on his concept too. His initial path was not thought out well IMO, and this was my immediate response to the notion. His latest version is much better, but there is still a more ideal way to do it. Agree overall though that the PCV system needs an overhaul as from the OE was much under designed and is extremely susceptible to failure and/or flaky behaviors if all the stars are not aligned perfectly. In short the proper way to improve the PCV system has been long understood, just not by many.

Rob

(EDIT: I was banned from this thread so not sure if the link will work, but tried to share a lot of information on the matter here: http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...may-be-smoking )
Care to address the issue and either make a product or say how to improve on Rob and AUBeasts system? You keep saying there are ways to improve but never give any insight as to what needs/can be "fixed".


2010 AW/BLK 135i VM 6465 Single Turbo, JB4 + MHD, VRSF CP & Tial, Big Tom, Fuel-It PI + Stage 3 + Return + Ethanol Sensor, BMW PE, MFactory LSD & Axles, Spec 3+ & MFactory SMFW, RB External PCV
Best stock turbo 12.5 @ 19.46 spinning all the way down
RIP 2008 AW/BL 135i
Reply With Quote
(#14)
Old
blisstik's Avatar
blisstik blisstik is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 161
Join Date: Mar 2015
Car: 2007 E92 MOTIV 750
Default 08-23-2015, 07:17 PM

AUbeast86 - are you releasing a combo PCV valve?



MOTIV750 / MHD+JB4 / ADV / SB REAR O2
Reply With Quote
(#15)
Old
AUbeast86's Avatar
AUbeast86 AUbeast86 is offline
Senior Member
 
Posts: 764
Join Date: Nov 2012
Car: 2007 335i e92 Coupe
Default 08-23-2015, 07:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonBeemah
Sorry to hear about your issue but thank you for sharing. Just curious if you saw any oil on the plug or any other indication that led you to tear the engine down?
Thanks. No problem. I've been troubleshooting this issue for almost a year now. Yes, there was oil on the plug, in the exhaust manifold and toward the end, cylinder #1 was puking oil into the intake manifold. That's when I'd had enough and decided to tear the thing apart.
Reply With Quote
(#16)
Old
AUbeast86's Avatar
AUbeast86 AUbeast86 is offline
Senior Member
 
Posts: 764
Join Date: Nov 2012
Car: 2007 335i e92 Coupe
Default 08-23-2015, 07:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by blisstik
AUbeast86 - are you releasing a combo PCV valve?
Probably not. RBs valve is more than sufficient and all I did was hack up AD's fitting to accept the RB valve. Someone can feed this back to Andy and request him to release a modified version since it is his base design. I don't want to tread on anyone's turf.
Reply With Quote
(#17)
Old
Rob@RBTurbo's Avatar
Rob@RBTurbo Rob@RBTurbo is offline
Stalker
 
Posts: 4,036
Join Date: Feb 2009
Car: 335I
Default 08-24-2015, 08:11 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AUbeast86
Probably not. RBs valve is more than sufficient and all I did was hack up AD's fitting to accept the RB valve. Someone can feed this back to Andy and request him to release a modified version since it is his base design. I don't want to tread on anyone's turf.
Considering you have made this comment hopefully it is ok to respond to the below, I too am not trying to muddy up your thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonBeemah
Care to address the issue and either make a product or say how to improve on Rob and AUBeasts system? You keep saying there are ways to improve but never give any insight as to what needs/can be "fixed".
There is a more refined fix that I have been wanting to do for a very long time. However it has proven to be long overdue with no end in sight. However there is a functional fix that I can have done within days, just not be my favorite design. Anyway the functional fix requires 2 adapters, which is plug and play. 1 of these adapters is the same thought as my more refined fix, but the other is not. All in all the functional fix can be installed in less than 30 minutes. I know you already have the head tapped and you may want to try out the adapters, let me know if so.

Thanks,
Rob


See www.rbturbo.com for N54 Twin Turbo Bolt-On upgrades, or contact directly 314-630-8950 rob.rbturbo@gmail.com for a price quote.
Reply With Quote
(#18)
Old
BostonBeemah's Avatar
BostonBeemah BostonBeemah is offline
Senior Member
 
Posts: 831
Join Date: Sep 2011
Car: AW 135i
Default 08-24-2015, 08:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo
Considering you have made this comment hopefully it is ok to respond to the below, I too am not trying to muddy up your thread.



There is a more refined fix that I have been wanting to do for a very long time. However it has proven to be long overdue with no end in sight. However there is a functional fix that I can have done within days, just not be my favorite design. Anyway the functional fix requires 2 adapters, which is plug and play. 1 of these adapters is the same thought as my more refined fix, but the other is not. All in all the functional fix can be installed in less than 30 minutes. I know you already have the head tapped and you may want to try out the adapters, let me know if so.

Thanks,
Rob
Email sent.


2010 AW/BLK 135i VM 6465 Single Turbo, JB4 + MHD, VRSF CP & Tial, Big Tom, Fuel-It PI + Stage 3 + Return + Ethanol Sensor, BMW PE, MFactory LSD & Axles, Spec 3+ & MFactory SMFW, RB External PCV
Best stock turbo 12.5 @ 19.46 spinning all the way down
RIP 2008 AW/BL 135i
Reply With Quote
(#19)
Old
samstryker's Avatar
samstryker samstryker is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 452
Join Date: Aug 2014
Car: 2008 535xiT e61
Default 08-25-2015, 12:05 AM

Wow.. thanks for sharing. Kind of scary for those of us with oil consumption issues. Are you rebuilding the engine? and if so what internals are you going with?


2008 e61 535xit: VTT GCs, Fuel-it PI, fuelab FPR w/ return line, stage 2 lpfp, fuelab "700" inline pump, RB external PCV, VRSF 7.5" race FMIC, Inlets, outlet, AR ***, 3" chargepiping, 3" exhaust, JB4, BMS PI controller
Reply With Quote
(#20)
Old
AUbeast86's Avatar
AUbeast86 AUbeast86 is offline
Senior Member
 
Posts: 764
Join Date: Nov 2012
Car: 2007 335i e92 Coupe
Default 08-25-2015, 03:12 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by samstryker
Wow.. thanks for sharing. Kind of scary for those of us with oil consumption issues. Are you rebuilding the engine? and if so what internals are you going with?
I'm rebuilding the engine but going back stock lower end.
Reply With Quote
(#21)
Old
_ink's Avatar
_ink _ink is offline
Senior Member
 
Posts: 530
Join Date: Nov 2012
Car: 335i DCT
Default 08-25-2015, 07:43 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo



There is a more refined fix that I have been wanting to do for a very long time. However it has proven to be long overdue with no end in sight. However there is a functional fix that I can have done within days, just not be my favorite design. Anyway the functional fix requires 2 adapters, which is plug and play. 1 of these adapters is the same thought as my more refined fix, but the other is not. All in all the functional fix can be installed in less than 30 minutes. I know you already have the head tapped and you may want to try out the adapters, let me know if so.

Thanks,
Rob

Will your fix still requiring the head tapping?
Reply With Quote
(#22)
Old
Rob@RBTurbo's Avatar
Rob@RBTurbo Rob@RBTurbo is offline
Stalker
 
Posts: 4,036
Join Date: Feb 2009
Car: 335I
Default 08-25-2015, 11:27 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by _ink
Will your fix still requiring the head tapping?
Will it be required? No (and yes).

No in that the PCV routing will be bypassing the valve cover and gasket so PCV functionality will be a "sure thing" without tapping the head.

Yes in that by NOT "tapping" the head (or placing in some custom plugs that we may make to avoid having to tap) you are still exposing a possible leak otherwise into your crankcase or outside world as you go into boosted or vacuum conditions; which otherwise can still degrade performance and other system/engine/turbo components. Ultimately we will be recommending that the head ports are plugged in some shape or form to avoid this large possibility.


See www.rbturbo.com for N54 Twin Turbo Bolt-On upgrades, or contact directly 314-630-8950 rob.rbturbo@gmail.com for a price quote.
Reply With Quote
(#23)
Old
bk335xi's Avatar
bk335xi bk335xi is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 352
Join Date: Jul 2014
Car: 335xi 6MT
Default 08-25-2015, 11:58 AM

How much smoke were you seeing? Mine always smokes a little on cold startup, more than any car I've owned but it goes away when it gets up to temp. Mine doesn't consume much oil though, maybe 2/3qt per 5000 miles.


08 335xi 6MT | FBO
Reply With Quote
(#24)
Old
AUbeast86's Avatar
AUbeast86 AUbeast86 is offline
Senior Member
 
Posts: 764
Join Date: Nov 2012
Car: 2007 335i e92 Coupe
Default 08-25-2015, 04:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bk335xi
How much smoke were you seeing? Mine always smokes a little on cold startup, more than any car I've owned but it goes away when it gets up to temp. Mine doesn't consume much oil though, maybe 2/3qt per 5000 miles.
See post #4 in this thread.
Reply With Quote
(#25)
Old
_ink's Avatar
_ink _ink is offline
Senior Member
 
Posts: 530
Join Date: Nov 2012
Car: 335i DCT
Default 08-25-2015, 04:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo
Will it be required? No (and yes).

No in that the PCV routing will be bypassing the valve cover and gasket so PCV functionality will be a "sure thing" without tapping the head.

Yes in that by NOT "tapping" the head (or placing in some custom plugs that we may make to avoid having to tap) you are still exposing a possible leak otherwise into your crankcase or outside world as you go into boosted or vacuum conditions; which otherwise can still degrade performance and other system/engine/turbo components. Ultimately we will be recommending that the head ports are plugged in some shape or form to avoid this large possibility.
Custom plugs would be the next best thing!! Tapping the engine although maybe simple in process, is very different to actual execution (which is the concern).

When do you expect this to be available?
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




vBulletin Skin developed by: vBStyles.com
Copyright © 2007 - 2020, N54tech.com