N54Tech.com - International Turbo Racing Discussion
(#1101)
Old
DCTepper DCTepper is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 60
Join Date: Mar 2010
Car: '07 SGM 335i
Default 02-04-2011, 12:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
ECU psi is what the DME observes boost as, DME BT is the DME's boost target, FFPID is the feed forward component of the pid control, and pre-boost is boost in front of the throttle body from the tmap sensor. Many are internal use and/or not relevant to customer use.
What are the main variables you recommend we keep an eye on and what should we look for (besides repeated timing dips in the higher rpm range)? Also, does the N54 not have a knock sensor output to log?
Reply With Quote
(#1102)
Old
Terry @ BMS's Avatar
Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
Tuner
 
Posts: 32,614
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default 02-04-2011, 12:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DCTepper
What are the main variables you recommend we keep an eye on and what should we look for (besides repeated timing dips in the higher rpm range)? Also, does the N54 not have a knock sensor output to log?
There is really nothing you need to keep an eye on or look at, unless we have you testing a map with specific changes, and in that case we will tell you what we're looking for. There is a direct knock sensor voltage but it isn't viewable in the JB4 interface. The logging features are there just for diagnostic purposes.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
Reply With Quote
(#1103)
Old
DCTepper DCTepper is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 60
Join Date: Mar 2010
Car: '07 SGM 335i
Default 02-04-2011, 12:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
There is really nothing you need to keep an eye on or look at, unless we have you testing a map with specific changes, and in that case we will tell you what we're looking for. There is a direct knock sensor voltage but it isn't viewable in the JB4 interface. The logging features are there just for diagnostic purposes.
Thanks for your help! I'm running Map 2 on 93oct with your DCI and have had no problems thus far (even in 20F weather)! Just want to make sure I log it every once in a while to make sure I am still safe.
Reply With Quote
(#1104)
Old
HondaGoneRogue's Avatar
HondaGoneRogue HondaGoneRogue is offline
They like my swag....
 
Posts: 41
Join Date: Sep 2008
Car: 135i
Default 02-04-2011, 01:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Adaptive PID is not the same as full "autotuning", but it's an important component to it. It's an algorithm to adapt the boost control to your cars specific wastegate stiffness, mods, local conditions, etc. We'll be building upon it in future releases while we simultaneously add the other components needed.

As you do subsequent WOT pulls you'll see the FFMAX value under user settings adjust itself between 0-130. This represents how much of the duty cycle increase is fixed/hits instantly and how much is variable through the PID process. Ideally you want most of the increase to come through the fixed/feed forward as it will result in you hitting your target much faster than waiting for the PID to integrate to it. But if the value is overly aggressive you'll get overshoot and throttle closure. So the adaptive PID ranges FFMAX based on historic data collected during WOT runs. Right now its ranging one value which scales the entire 3D curve but the next step on adaptive PID will be to have it learn on a cel by cel basis (rpm, gear, target). This gets us 80% of where we'd like to be though with only 20% of the testing and work required.
So which value is it scaling? Or is that a secret? And does this mean that the more WOT we do the more accurate it should be with the FFMAX ranges? It just seems like there are way too many variables for it to only use one value to focus on. Does the PID process act as a filter after the fact?

I read as much of the wiki as I could understand, mainly focusing on the feed forward section and find it really interesting. I know you're prolly sick of explaining to noobs what you work so hard to learn, so I would understand if you just say "don't worry about it, just go burn rubber". But is there any other quick links you think might help the curious? Thanks T.
Reply With Quote
(#1105)
Old
HondaGoneRogue's Avatar
HondaGoneRogue HondaGoneRogue is offline
They like my swag....
 
Posts: 41
Join Date: Sep 2008
Car: 135i
Default 02-04-2011, 01:49 PM

Basically what I'm really wondering is if the FFMAX is going to adjust itself with the PID since it's open loop or do we need to be logging as much as we can for you so you can set the targets or what have you.

Am I way off? See what happens when you give AF mechanics too much info?
Reply With Quote
(#1106)
Old
Terry @ BMS's Avatar
Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
Tuner
 
Posts: 32,614
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default 02-04-2011, 01:57 PM

You just do WOT pulls and if you're interested watch the FFMAX user adjustable change itself. But we don't normally get overly technical on the forums about those things as it serves only to confuse the 90% of our customer base who just want to install and drive their car. They read logging, adjustables, etc, and suddenly feel like they should be doing something. Which they shouldn't be.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
Reply With Quote
(#1107)
Old
HondaGoneRogue's Avatar
HondaGoneRogue HondaGoneRogue is offline
They like my swag....
 
Posts: 41
Join Date: Sep 2008
Car: 135i
Default 02-04-2011, 02:09 PM

LOL, got it. I'm gonna go burn rubber. Hahaha.

Either way, **** is awesome. Had a nice little *** and mouse game with a C5 Z06 today. I bet he wished he would have tried a little harder.
Reply With Quote
(#1108)
Old
constpapa constpapa is offline
New Member
 
Posts: 4
Join Date: Jan 2011
Car: 2010 335 xDrive Coupe
Default 02-04-2011, 03:53 PM

What JB4 map should I be using?

My car: 2010 335 xDrive Coupe with afe scoops, afe drop in air filter, borla aggressive catback exhaust, 94 Octane always


On JB3 I used Map 4 as a daily driver and Map 5 once a week or so...

What equivalent JB4 map can I use??
Reply With Quote
(#1109)
Old
Terry @ BMS's Avatar
Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
Tuner
 
Posts: 32,614
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default 02-04-2011, 05:08 PM

With 94 octane you can normally get away with map 2 even if you don't have *********.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
Reply With Quote
(#1110)
Old
alq80 alq80 is offline
New Member
 
Posts: 6
Join Date: Jul 2009
Car: 07 335i Cp
Default 02-04-2011, 07:03 PM

Considering I used to go into limp mode all the time once the oil temp was >260 (low boost code) and no matter how hard i stepped on it when it was cooler, nothing would happen... is there any failsafes or safeties to prevent limps?
Reply With Quote
(#1111)
Old
Terry @ BMS's Avatar
Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
Tuner
 
Posts: 32,614
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default 02-04-2011, 07:40 PM

Your guess is as good as mine if it will fix your JB3 issue. It would depend on the code and why you were triggering it. If nothing else reading codes is much easier now so you should be able to track it down that way.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
Reply With Quote
(#1112)
Old
5soko's Avatar
5soko 5soko is offline
Vintage
 
Posts: 293
Join Date: Apr 2008
Car: F10 N55 PWG
Default 02-04-2011, 11:06 PM

Tryed out the PID adaptive feature. Did only 2 WOT runs in 3rd but damn car felt better afterwards, def noticed an difference. But im sure these results will vary from car to car.

Car felt like it def got on boost faster when i stepped on the pedal and more harder! Gonna have to do some more runs this weekend and get some logs.


2014 F10 535i N55 PWG
Reply With Quote
(#1113)
Old
alq80 alq80 is offline
New Member
 
Posts: 6
Join Date: Jul 2009
Car: 07 335i Cp
Default 02-04-2011, 11:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Your guess is as good as mine if it will fix your JB3 issue. It would depend on the code and why you were triggering it. If nothing else reading codes is much easier now so you should be able to track it down that way.
yeah, i guess. I will definitely be on the lookout and will contact you if anything comes up
Reply With Quote
(#1114)
Old
Orlin's Avatar
Orlin Orlin is offline
New Member
 
Posts: 21
Join Date: Jan 2011
Car: 08 135i
Default 02-05-2011, 02:53 AM

I updated my JB4 firmware today, the update itself took only a few mins. I have not had much time to really test it out, I have only done 2 3rd gear WOT pulls but I must say it does feel like a step in the right direction! So far I am really happy with this tune. Well done Terry and everyone over at bms, keep up the good work!
Reply With Quote
(#1115)
Old
thesalg thesalg is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 49
Join Date: Feb 2010
Car: 335xi
Default 02-05-2011, 10:50 AM

2) Changed 1st/2nd gear boost reduction to a boost limit. e.g. enter 10psi for 1st gear and you will never target more than 10psi in 1st gear. Target will never drop below stock 7-8psi target. Pressing steering wheel volume or talk button in 1st or 2nd gear will disable the boost limit.

sorry not sure if this was answered, but any need or reason to do this? Should this be done or is it optional?
Reply With Quote
(#1116)
Old
Terry @ BMS's Avatar
Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
Tuner
 
Posts: 32,614
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default 02-05-2011, 11:11 AM

If you have a loss of traction in 1st gear and prefer to have the tune limit boost for you then it's a good adjustment to use. But totally optional. In my step I leave 1st gear @ 12psi and 2nd gear @ 15psi. Then run progressive meth @ 17psi.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
Reply With Quote
(#1117)
Old
thesalg thesalg is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 49
Join Date: Feb 2010
Car: 335xi
Default 02-05-2011, 11:18 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
If you have a loss of traction in 1st gear and prefer to have the tune limit boost for you then it's a good adjustment to use. But totally optional. In my step I leave 1st gear @ 12psi and 2nd gear @ 15psi. Then run progressive meth @ 17psi.
oh alright, thanks I was just checking. Sounds like a great set-up you have, I gotta start looking into meth soon
Reply With Quote
(#1118)
Old
lawwailok's Avatar
lawwailok lawwailok is offline
New Member
 
Posts: 12
Join Date: Apr 2010
Car: E90 335i
Default 02-05-2011, 12:42 PM

PID adaptive is awesome! when i had jb3 whether in map 3 or 5, getting on ramp in 3rd gear would never triggered the traction control light. im in map 1 only, ~54F outside temp and last night, getting on ramp, WOT in rd, i saw the traction blinking =)


-eric
2007 TiAg E90
Reply With Quote
(#1119)
Old
Terry @ BMS's Avatar
Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
Tuner
 
Posts: 32,614
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default 02-05-2011, 12:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawwailok
PID adaptive is awesome! when i had jb3 whether in map 3 or 5, getting on ramp in 3rd gear would never triggered the traction control light. im in map 1 only, ~54F outside temp and last night, getting on ramp, WOT in rd, i saw the traction blinking =)
Very nice! The adaptive PID we're testing now rivals what other piggybacks already offer and flash tuners will be plagued by these car to car variance issues for some time to come. The next step is to create an even smarter version that not only rescales the curve but reshapes it. May need to dust off an old calculus book for this one.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
Reply With Quote
(#1120)
Old
5soko's Avatar
5soko 5soko is offline
Vintage
 
Posts: 293
Join Date: Apr 2008
Car: F10 N55 PWG
Default 02-05-2011, 02:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Very nice! The adaptive PID we're testing now rivals what other piggybacks already offer and flash tuners will be plagued by these car to car variance issues for some time to come. The next step is to create an even smarter version that not only rescales the curve but reshapes it. May need to dust off an old calculus book for this one.
Looking forward to this!!! I def am enjoying the JB4 and now with the PID autotuning feels Great....


2014 F10 535i N55 PWG
Reply With Quote
(#1121)
Old
DeadEye's Avatar
DeadEye DeadEye is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 43
Join Date: Feb 2008
Car: 335i
Default 02-05-2011, 03:00 PM

DId I miss an announcement about autotune being available now?


Individual Velvet Blue Manual E90 335i M-Sport.
Reply With Quote
(#1122)
Old
5soko's Avatar
5soko 5soko is offline
Vintage
 
Posts: 293
Join Date: Apr 2008
Car: F10 N55 PWG
Default 02-05-2011, 03:01 PM

Only the PID part is adaptive and autotuned.


2014 F10 535i N55 PWG
Reply With Quote
(#1123)
Old
AMASIAN AMASIAN is offline
Amazing Asian
 
Posts: 16
Join Date: Jul 2010
Car: E93
Default 02-05-2011, 03:10 PM

I enter command mode and select 5/6 trying to enter stealth gauge mode with gauge selection 2/5 already entered.

I exit command mode and it does not enter stealth mode. I re-enter command mode to verify settings and they reset back to 5/0...

What am I doing wrong ?


I pay $3.00 per gallon for race gas.
Reply With Quote
(#1124)
Old
DeadEye's Avatar
DeadEye DeadEye is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 43
Join Date: Feb 2008
Car: 335i
Default 02-05-2011, 03:15 PM

Turn the car off for a bit and it starts working - sounds like I had the same thing. Terry said it's sorted in the latest release.


Individual Velvet Blue Manual E90 335i M-Sport.
Reply With Quote
(#1125)
Old
Terry @ BMS's Avatar
Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
Tuner
 
Posts: 32,614
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default 02-05-2011, 03:39 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AMASIAN
I enter command mode and select 5/6 trying to enter stealth gauge mode with gauge selection 2/5 already entered.

I exit command mode and it does not enter stealth mode. I re-enter command mode to verify settings and they reset back to 5/0...

What am I doing wrong ?
The 1/21 update made that less confusing for people. Update it.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the JB4 the worlds most popular turbocharged tuning system!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 5 (0 members and 5 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




vBulletin Skin developed by: vBStyles.com
Copyright 2007 - 2020, N54tech.com