N54Tech.com - International Turbo Racing Discussion
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Default 04-30-2017, 08:27 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB4OFF
@juan

Do we have to purchase a new ******** with the stage 3 turbo?
We include the ** with our kit.


Big Boost, designing world's most innovating and efficient turbo kits!
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BigBoost Instagram: @bigboostturbo
webpage: bigboostusa.com

BigBoost's car: BMW M240i
Stage 3.4 turbo
Current B58 record holder: Currently: 822 WHP
4.8 100-200
10.85 @ 135 1/4 mile


Daily Driver: BMW M235i
BBT stage 3.3 turbo


Garage Queen: 2014 Nissan GT-R
EcuTek ECM and TCM tune, BDM DumpPipes, BDM intakes, BDM full race exhaust, hybrid turbos, E85. 936 WHP
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BASELINE BASELINE is offline
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Default 05-01-2017, 08:02 AM

I want to be excited for this but I'm having a hard time understanding a few things...and I have a feeling I'm not alone.

So up until now, the famous fuel cap had us limited to around 400whp regardless of supporting mods...this limit was understood to be fueling limit. These cars dyno stock or modified at pretty lean conditions and that seems to be what it wants...A/F in the 14s.

Now someone has slapped a big Turbo on an otherwise stock car and made an extra 130whp...with no additional fueling support while running similar A/F. 130whp extra requires a **** ton more fuel... where is it coming from if we are "capped"? Someone please explain that to me. Is the ECU being tricked somehow?

Also, looking at the log posted above, seems the throttle plate is closing hard right after the Turbo hit 25psi. And when you look at the RPM line on the chart you can tell the linear angle changes downward, you're definitely feeling that.

But what I really want to know is where is the fuel flow coming from if we were capped 130whp ago??

Am I the only one perplexed?

Last edited by BASELINE; 05-01-2017 at 08:16 AM..
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Shorty Shorty is offline
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Default 05-01-2017, 08:40 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BASELINE
I want to be excited for this but I'm having a hard time understanding a few things...and I have a feeling I'm not alone.

So up until now, the famous fuel cap had us limited to around 400whp regardless of supporting mods...this limit was understood to be fueling limit. These cars dyno stock or modified at pretty lean conditions and that seems to be what it wants...A/F in the 14s.

Now someone has slapped a big Turbo on an otherwise stock car and made an extra 130whp...with no additional fueling support while running similar A/F. 130whp extra requires a **** ton more fuel... where is it coming from if we are "capped"? Someone please explain that to me. Is the ECU being tricked somehow?

Also, looking at the log posted above, seems the throttle plate is closing hard right after the Turbo hit 25psi. And when you look at the RPM line on the chart you can tell the linear angle changes downward, you're definitely feeling that.

But what I really want to know is where is the fuel flow coming from if we were capped 130whp ago??

Am I the only one perplexed?
Me too dude hence why I said the same in an earlier. Like you said all that extra air needs fuel to go with it, where's it coming from? From my limited knowledge and experience on my automatic UK M140 in gears 6th and above the AFR richens out and it starts throwing more fuel in. So possibly able to make more power in higher gears due to having more fuel available.

Would be good to see some 3rd/4th gear logs aswell as maybe 5th and 6th to compare (Although probably wanna be doing 6th gear logs on the dyno as it means doing speeds Lol)

It's pretty exciting times and I can't wait for other people to start trying new things and pushing things forward.
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Default 05-01-2017, 08:46 AM

To resolve doubts about limited fuel.
We can't argue there is a fuel cap, just take a look at the AFRs and Fuel Trims, it is just too high as Terry said. We were able to run 23-24 PSI on the stock turbo, with our stage 3.2 only 18, there is actually a fuel cap.
It is also important to take into account that is not only fuel what makes power.
In all engines how well they breath is also a clue factor in power. The magic of our setup is there is no back-pressure, this because our manifold has 25% bigger runners than the stock one, also the turbine housing has a much bigger A/R, which helps the engine flow much better and have a cleaner combustion cycle, no contaminated air will produce more horsepower with the same amount of fuel we had before.


Big Boost, designing world's most innovating and efficient turbo kits!
-----------------
BigBoost Instagram: @bigboostturbo
webpage: bigboostusa.com

BigBoost's car: BMW M240i
Stage 3.4 turbo
Current B58 record holder: Currently: 822 WHP
4.8 100-200
10.85 @ 135 1/4 mile


Daily Driver: BMW M235i
BBT stage 3.3 turbo


Garage Queen: 2014 Nissan GT-R
EcuTek ECM and TCM tune, BDM DumpPipes, BDM intakes, BDM full race exhaust, hybrid turbos, E85. 936 WHP
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Default 05-01-2017, 09:39 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BASELINE
So up until now, the famous fuel cap had us limited to around 400whp regardless of supporting mods...this limit was understood to be fueling limit. These cars dyno stock or modified at pretty lean conditions and that seems to be what it wants...A/F in the 14s.
We made 438whp on the stock fuel system without meth, using E85, with a lean AFR. Posted the result 12/15/15... ~18 months ago. If we had used race gas instead of E85 and a larger turbo I'm sure we could hit 500whp+ on a dynojet...

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?p=430180

Just because you can do for a few runs on a dyno doesn't mean it's safe or that we'd ever suggest customers do it. And doesn't mean the car is going to work properly during a race.

Look at the result as promosing for the turbo. It has nothing to do with the B58 fueling and tuning limitations that are remain the main obstacle in holding back B58 performance.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, S55s, N63s, and S63s!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 05-01-2017, 11:07 AM

Agree with Terry, that is why we are testing the car on the street and will be testing it at the track.


Big Boost, designing world's most innovating and efficient turbo kits!
-----------------
BigBoost Instagram: @bigboostturbo
webpage: bigboostusa.com

BigBoost's car: BMW M240i
Stage 3.4 turbo
Current B58 record holder: Currently: 822 WHP
4.8 100-200
10.85 @ 135 1/4 mile


Daily Driver: BMW M235i
BBT stage 3.3 turbo


Garage Queen: 2014 Nissan GT-R
EcuTek ECM and TCM tune, BDM DumpPipes, BDM intakes, BDM full race exhaust, hybrid turbos, E85. 936 WHP
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JB4OFF JB4OFF is offline
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Default 05-01-2017, 11:38 AM

The real question is how does the car run with the turbo and let's say stock or map 1 for instance?
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Default 05-01-2017, 05:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB4OFF
The real question is how does the car run with the turbo and let's say stock or map 1 for instance?
Map 0 it made 400 WHP
Will upload all dyno graphs later.

We just made 563 WHP.


Big Boost, designing world's most innovating and efficient turbo kits!
-----------------
BigBoost Instagram: @bigboostturbo
webpage: bigboostusa.com

BigBoost's car: BMW M240i
Stage 3.4 turbo
Current B58 record holder: Currently: 822 WHP
4.8 100-200
10.85 @ 135 1/4 mile


Daily Driver: BMW M235i
BBT stage 3.3 turbo


Garage Queen: 2014 Nissan GT-R
EcuTek ECM and TCM tune, BDM DumpPipes, BDM intakes, BDM full race exhaust, hybrid turbos, E85. 936 WHP
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Default Dyno Graphs - 05-01-2017, 06:05 PM

We made some changes in fuel. Last time we used pump gas mixed with Sunoco 260GT Plus, and today we made some dyno runs using un-mixed Sunoco 260 GT Plus, this made significant improvements in power and torque.

Map 7
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Map 2
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Map 1
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Map 3
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Map 0
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All Maps compared
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Dyno Run Video:
https://youtu.be/bfn1mtgacCw

Car Pic 1:
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Car Pic 2:
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Big Boost, designing world's most innovating and efficient turbo kits!
-----------------
BigBoost Instagram: @bigboostturbo
webpage: bigboostusa.com

BigBoost's car: BMW M240i
Stage 3.4 turbo
Current B58 record holder: Currently: 822 WHP
4.8 100-200
10.85 @ 135 1/4 mile


Daily Driver: BMW M235i
BBT stage 3.3 turbo


Garage Queen: 2014 Nissan GT-R
EcuTek ECM and TCM tune, BDM DumpPipes, BDM intakes, BDM full race exhaust, hybrid turbos, E85. 936 WHP

Last edited by Juan_BIGBOOST_TURBO; 05-01-2017 at 09:03 PM..
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Weehe Weehe is offline
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Default 05-01-2017, 06:49 PM

Is this a 2.0L evo? Why does it take until 4500rpms to hit full boost? Nothing about that power curve looks good. I understand you are breaking new ground with a larger turbo, but there is a lot left to be desired.
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Default 05-01-2017, 07:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weehe
Is this a 2.0L evo? Why does it take until 4500rpms to hit full boost? Nothing about that power curve looks good. I understand you are breaking new ground with a larger turbo, but there is a lot left to be desired.
Name:  Stock vs 3.2 BBT B58.jpg
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This is the comparison from stock to stage 3.2. Of course a larger turbo takes longer to spool, but after 3500 our kit is already making more power than stock at much less boost. If you say "full boost" you must take into account "full boost" is 25 psi, which is achieved at 4400 RPMs, but if you are having "full boost" by 20 psi you are achieving at 3700 RPMs, and if you want "full boost" by 18 psi you have it at 3400 RPMs. Also, boost is delivered in a progressive manner, you request 18 psi first and then you start delivering what's left.


Big Boost, designing world's most innovating and efficient turbo kits!
-----------------
BigBoost Instagram: @bigboostturbo
webpage: bigboostusa.com

BigBoost's car: BMW M240i
Stage 3.4 turbo
Current B58 record holder: Currently: 822 WHP
4.8 100-200
10.85 @ 135 1/4 mile


Daily Driver: BMW M235i
BBT stage 3.3 turbo


Garage Queen: 2014 Nissan GT-R
EcuTek ECM and TCM tune, BDM DumpPipes, BDM intakes, BDM full race exhaust, hybrid turbos, E85. 936 WHP

Last edited by Juan_BIGBOOST_TURBO; 05-01-2017 at 09:20 PM..
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Default 05-01-2017, 07:53 PM

Here we have another comparison between stock and our turbo, both in map 0, and same gears. 3rd, 4th, 5th. We can see how odd the car feels on the red (Stock) graph. You can also see there is almost no difference in the turbo response as soon as you do WOT.
Name:  B58 stock vs stage 3.2 comparison.jpg
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Big Boost, designing world's most innovating and efficient turbo kits!
-----------------
BigBoost Instagram: @bigboostturbo
webpage: bigboostusa.com

BigBoost's car: BMW M240i
Stage 3.4 turbo
Current B58 record holder: Currently: 822 WHP
4.8 100-200
10.85 @ 135 1/4 mile


Daily Driver: BMW M235i
BBT stage 3.3 turbo


Garage Queen: 2014 Nissan GT-R
EcuTek ECM and TCM tune, BDM DumpPipes, BDM intakes, BDM full race exhaust, hybrid turbos, E85. 936 WHP
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N54_liam N54_liam is offline
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Default 05-02-2017, 12:30 AM

Good results following this with interest. Can I run sunoco gt260 or ms109 in a 140i on jb4?


Current: M140i
Previous: N54 - Forge BOV - Forge Chargepipe - Airtec Intercooler - DCI - VRSF - JB4 - LCA
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Default 05-02-2017, 06:28 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by N54_liam
Good results following this with interest. Can I run sunoco gt260 or ms109 in a 140i on jb4?
Yes you can run these fuels on your car, preferably MS109. This should increase the car's response and top end.


Big Boost, designing world's most innovating and efficient turbo kits!
-----------------
BigBoost Instagram: @bigboostturbo
webpage: bigboostusa.com

BigBoost's car: BMW M240i
Stage 3.4 turbo
Current B58 record holder: Currently: 822 WHP
4.8 100-200
10.85 @ 135 1/4 mile


Daily Driver: BMW M235i
BBT stage 3.3 turbo


Garage Queen: 2014 Nissan GT-R
EcuTek ECM and TCM tune, BDM DumpPipes, BDM intakes, BDM full race exhaust, hybrid turbos, E85. 936 WHP
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jpsimon jpsimon is offline
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Default 05-02-2017, 06:41 AM

awesome results so far, keep the updates coming!


BSM 340i xDrive (6MT, M-Sport, etc)
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kern417 kern417 is offline
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Default 05-02-2017, 07:53 AM

looks great to me, but dynos would be more relevant on 93 oct and 12 or so afr so people know what a daily driven tune would look like power-wise.
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Default 05-02-2017, 07:56 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by kern417
looks great to me, but dynos would be more relevant on 93 oct and 12 or so afr so people know what a daily driven tune would look like power-wise.
We will do these dynos next, we didn't want to risk the engine at testing, so we decided to test with higher octane first too see if everything works fine. We will do some 91 and 93 octane testing this week.


Big Boost, designing world's most innovating and efficient turbo kits!
-----------------
BigBoost Instagram: @bigboostturbo
webpage: bigboostusa.com

BigBoost's car: BMW M240i
Stage 3.4 turbo
Current B58 record holder: Currently: 822 WHP
4.8 100-200
10.85 @ 135 1/4 mile


Daily Driver: BMW M235i
BBT stage 3.3 turbo


Garage Queen: 2014 Nissan GT-R
EcuTek ECM and TCM tune, BDM DumpPipes, BDM intakes, BDM full race exhaust, hybrid turbos, E85. 936 WHP
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Default 05-02-2017, 08:22 AM

Excited about the work. Let's get WMI going on this car, should clean everything up.


Burger Motorsports
Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, S55s, N63s, and S63s!

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.
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Default 05-02-2017, 08:28 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Excited about the work. Let's get WMI going on this car, should clean everything up.
We began WMI installation today, should be ready soon!


Big Boost, designing world's most innovating and efficient turbo kits!
-----------------
BigBoost Instagram: @bigboostturbo
webpage: bigboostusa.com

BigBoost's car: BMW M240i
Stage 3.4 turbo
Current B58 record holder: Currently: 822 WHP
4.8 100-200
10.85 @ 135 1/4 mile


Daily Driver: BMW M235i
BBT stage 3.3 turbo


Garage Queen: 2014 Nissan GT-R
EcuTek ECM and TCM tune, BDM DumpPipes, BDM intakes, BDM full race exhaust, hybrid turbos, E85. 936 WHP
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kern417 kern417 is offline
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Default 05-03-2017, 04:55 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Juan_BIGBOOST_TURBO
We will do these dynos next, we didn't want to risk the engine at testing, so we decided to test with higher octane first too see if everything works fine. We will do some 91 and 93 octane testing this week.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS
Excited about the work. Let's get WMI going on this car, should clean everything up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juan_BIGBOOST_TURBO
We began WMI installation today, should be ready soon!
party time.
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Default 05-08-2017, 08:42 AM

How's the install coming along?


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Default 05-08-2017, 08:49 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpsimon
How's the install coming along?
Install is on hold, we are working on some N55 kits to be shipped this week so, as soon as we finish we will update you guys.


Big Boost, designing world's most innovating and efficient turbo kits!
-----------------
BigBoost Instagram: @bigboostturbo
webpage: bigboostusa.com

BigBoost's car: BMW M240i
Stage 3.4 turbo
Current B58 record holder: Currently: 822 WHP
4.8 100-200
10.85 @ 135 1/4 mile


Daily Driver: BMW M235i
BBT stage 3.3 turbo


Garage Queen: 2014 Nissan GT-R
EcuTek ECM and TCM tune, BDM DumpPipes, BDM intakes, BDM full race exhaust, hybrid turbos, E85. 936 WHP
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JB4OFF JB4OFF is offline
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Default 05-08-2017, 05:46 PM

Hey Juan, when are you testing the 3.3 turbo on th car? Can the 3.3 turbo be ran with stock internals? You stated on bimmerpost that you'll be testing the 3.3 with WMI
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Default 05-08-2017, 06:03 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB4OFF
Hey Juan, when are you testing the 3.3 turbo on th car? Can the 3.3 turbo be ran with stock internals? You stated on bimmerpost that you'll be testing the 3.3 with WMI
Hey Peter,

Yes it can run it with stock internals. We will install it along with WMI. Should be ready by Friday of this week.


Big Boost, designing world's most innovating and efficient turbo kits!
-----------------
BigBoost Instagram: @bigboostturbo
webpage: bigboostusa.com

BigBoost's car: BMW M240i
Stage 3.4 turbo
Current B58 record holder: Currently: 822 WHP
4.8 100-200
10.85 @ 135 1/4 mile


Daily Driver: BMW M235i
BBT stage 3.3 turbo


Garage Queen: 2014 Nissan GT-R
EcuTek ECM and TCM tune, BDM DumpPipes, BDM intakes, BDM full race exhaust, hybrid turbos, E85. 936 WHP

Last edited by Juan_BIGBOOST_TURBO; 05-08-2017 at 06:15 PM..
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Default 05-12-2017, 07:15 AM

Guys,

It seems like the Meth injection made a lot of difference!

We made 575 RWHP on 95 octane fuel. I will try to strap the car on the dyno again today to see if we do better with race fuel and to measure torque as the RPM signal was faulty last night.


Big Boost, designing world's most innovating and efficient turbo kits!
-----------------
BigBoost Instagram: @bigboostturbo
webpage: bigboostusa.com

BigBoost's car: BMW M240i
Stage 3.4 turbo
Current B58 record holder: Currently: 822 WHP
4.8 100-200
10.85 @ 135 1/4 mile


Daily Driver: BMW M235i
BBT stage 3.3 turbo


Garage Queen: 2014 Nissan GT-R
EcuTek ECM and TCM tune, BDM DumpPipes, BDM intakes, BDM full race exhaust, hybrid turbos, E85. 936 WHP
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