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-   -   Advanced N54 PCV discussion and upgrade>>>> (https://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15382)

Rob@RBTurbo 03-16-2012 06:40 PM

Advanced N54 PCV discussion and upgrade>>>>
 
I have spent the last couple hours inspecting the N54 Valve cover and observing the internal PCV system. I have come across what I think to be some very good news.

First off what I have found is that the PCV valve internal the valve cover IS serviceable. The bad news is that it doesn't appear to be available for purchase. But since I also have found that the plastic PCV valve does not hold pressure well that is not necessarily a bad thing.

What the leaky PCV valve means is that when you are in boosted conditions, the "highly" pressurized PCV valve leaks turbocharged pressures into the crankcase. Pending on the condition of your PCV valve, it could leak worse than others. I believe the unit I tested is in very good condition, yet still leaks and therefore I am not impressed.

Also what I have found is that if for some reason your valve cover is loose or has a bad gasket, you also could develop a pressure leak either external to the engine or internal into the crankcase causing further pressurization of the crankcase.

I am going to look into an upgrade of this PCV valve. It likely will require some custom adaptations and machining, but I believe would be well worth the benefits to those serious about their cars. The concept I have in mind at the moment will be a very EASY bolt in solution, possibly taking just minutes.

Please note the solution will only fix the OEM PCV valve itself, not a leaky gasket or otherwise poor seal (that will have to be addressed with lots of elbow grease). I do recommend if EVER pulling off the valve cover to always replace the OEM gasket with a new one and use a GOOD sealant (ie. The Right Stuff) around these pressurization ports that are fed through each intake port.

Also note this will not negate the Pro's of Oil Catch Cans, but could reduce what they otherwise collect. It also could be reasoned that those who catch a TON of oil have a less "healthy" internal valve cover PCV valve.

Will give some more updates later, but stay tuned and don't go swapping out a valve cover because of fear of a bad internal PCV system just yet.

Just to note the OEM BMW Check valve hose part # is 11157553949

Pictures of unit:
http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=126

Installation DIY:
http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=160
http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=190

PLEASE NOTE: THIS IS A PLASTIC CAP THAT HOLDS THE PCV VALVE IN PLACE. DO NOT OVER TIGHTEN THIS CAP. IT DOES NOT REQUIRE MUCH TORQUE. DAMAGE MAY OCCUR. I believe about 36-42in/lb should be ideal. Do not exceed 48in/lb (4ft/lb) on this cap. Also use your best judgment. You also may find a 1/2in box end wrench has a more secure/snug fit than the 13mm to avoid risk of stripping plastic end cap end.

If you would like to order the unit:
First Read-
http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=109

$45 shipped to rob.rbturbo@gmail.com if anyone wants one send away... Just make sure your full address is on the PayPal.

Thanks,
Rob

NOTE FOR INTERNATIONAL CUSTOMERS and the $50 shipped price!!!
Due to several items that have been not arriving internationally for the past couple weeks (and the loss we have been sustaining by sending out replacement units), affective immediately we have to make some changes.

Here is the situation for purchase options for International customers:
1) We refund you your money to avoid the risk of shipping and loss responsibility on our behalf.
2) We ship you the unit via USPS at the cheap shipping rate and provide a tracking number at your request, but hold no responsibility for it's arrival and will not be able to assist in retrieving/contacting/etc the post offices involved in the item.
3) We get you a guaranteed shipping quote, but it typically is at around $50.
4) You provide a shipping address within the USA.

This will be our new disclaimer of sorts for International orders that utilize the cheaper shipping methods (plan on adding this to the website):
Due to the low cost of this selection and the cooperation required with the postal services that the component be delivered, RB Turbo LLC does not accept ultimate responsibility for it's arrival and will only be able to provide the tracking information for the item shipped. Therefore by making this selection you accept responsibility for the item not arriving. Please consider alternative shipping methods for a guaranteed arrival.


Sorry for the inconvenience… we have just had enough of taking responsibility for the shortcomings of the postal services within the USA and also those at the customer side's country and for each unit that is lost we lose about $50 on what would've been a $10 profit- all in the name of trying to get the item to the customer for a fair price in shipping.

Thanks for your understanding,
Rob

Marv85 03-16-2012 06:56 PM

Subscribed!

enrita 03-17-2012 02:42 AM

sounds great Rob! I removed my catch can , was collecting lots of oil and with repeated pulls my oil level would go down quickly. now oil level is fine again even after lots of pulls and miles.

Ramjet 03-17-2012 06:15 AM

+1 on the Subscribed!

Marv85 03-17-2012 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enrita (Post )
sounds great Rob! I removed my catch can , was collecting lots of oil and with repeated pulls my oil level would go down quickly. now oil level is fine again even after lots of pulls and miles.

I'm sorry if I missed the point, but why is your oil level stable now that you removed the OCC?

enrita 03-17-2012 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marv85 (Post )
I'm sorry if I missed the point, but why is your oil level stable now that you removed the OCC?

i have no idea but might be related to the removal of the occ. I was collecting lots of oil in it which is probably why the level was going down.

hotrod182 03-17-2012 09:38 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Are you talking about the little valve assembly in the cover? I remember cleaning mine out and swapping between both of my 335i BMWs because I suspected there might have been a problem with the valve that switches flow paths between boost/idle/decel conditions.

Terry @ BMS 03-17-2012 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enrita (Post )
sounds great Rob! I removed my catch can , was collecting lots of oil and with repeated pulls my oil level would go down quickly. now oil level is fine again even after lots of pulls and miles.

Once oil has reached the OCC it will never make it back in the crankcase. It would be injected to the inlet side of the rear turbo, go through the IC and charge *****, and what is left will burn up in the combustion chamber. but if the OCC was restrictive that could cause excessive crankcase pressure and all sorts of problems.

Rob@RBTurbo 03-17-2012 10:39 AM

Hotrod, yes that part on the right is the internal valve cover PCV valve. IMO we should try to adapt a better valve in its place.

Terry @ BMS 03-17-2012 10:45 AM

I've thought of making a better separator valve that will screw in there but haven't really spent enough time on it. I think we need to come up with some sort of in car test to determine if the valve is in fact leaking under boost. Maybe measuring crankcase pressure with it working normally and again blocked?

As a quick test I put a nipple over it for a week or two and noticed a lot more water condensation caught in the OCC. Makes sense as that valve sucks crankcase junk during idle / engine vacuum where there should not be much blow by but lots of cold start condensation, etc. But didn't spend enough time to really come up with a proper test for it.

themyst 03-17-2012 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enrita (Post )
sounds great Rob! I removed my catch can , was collecting lots of oil and with repeated pulls my oil level would go down quickly. now oil level is fine again even after lots of pulls and miles.

+1 I'd lose a half quart after like 6-7 back to back pulls and likely starved one of my turbos in the process with the BSH OCC, once I took it out, I don't lose a drop of oil no matter how hard I beat on it. Looking forward to results.

stpijb 03-17-2012 02:55 PM

Im interested in what Terry is going to make to fix this :) When he makes a product sign me up for it.

Big Tom 03-17-2012 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotrod182 (Post )
Are you talking about the little valve assembly in the cover? I remember cleaning mine out and swapping between both of my 335i BMWs because I suspected there might have been a problem with the valve that switches flow paths between boost/idle/decel conditions.

Hmm, interesting.
I'll definitely have a look at mine.

Terry @ BMS 03-17-2012 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stpijb (Post )
Im interested in what Terry is going to make to fix this :) When he makes a product sign me up for it.

I'm happy to make something, but if Rob already has something in the works also happy to let him take the lead on the project. :)

Big Tom 03-17-2012 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS (Post )
As a quick test I put a nipple over it for a week or two and noticed a lot more water condensation caught in the OCC.

I noticed that too when I had my check valve plugged a while ago.

TurboBullett 03-17-2012 04:00 PM

Anver makes some very nice check valves with both male and female thread I'm sure you could probably find something you can make work for this application!
http://www.anver.com/document/vacuum%20components/vacuum%20valves/valve-check.htm

Vroom 03-18-2012 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo (Post )
But since I also have found that the plastic PCV valve does not hold pressure well that is not necessarily a bad thing.

Good stuff Rob, Thanks!
Why is a leaky valve not necessarily a bad thing?
How did you pressure check the valve?

Big Tom 03-18-2012 07:26 AM

I removed my check valve today and it actually looked quite good.
I cleaned it with a lot of Quick Clean and it worked perfectly when I tested it afterwards.

Rob@RBTurbo 03-18-2012 12:47 PM

This valve definitely leaks some. There are better metal valves that do not leak at all. I tested it at around 20psi.

stpijb 03-18-2012 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS (Post )
I'm happy to make something, but if Rob already has something in the works also happy to let him take the lead on the project. :)

What im thinking Terry is how come we cant disable this check valve all together and force all the junk to go to the BMS OCC? Would this stop all the problems people have with the gunk buildup on the valves if we could disable this all together?

idnan 03-18-2012 02:03 PM

Good work Rob, definitely looking forward to updates on this.

Interestingly my mechanic decided to replace the valve cover, pcv pipe and gasket when he installed the turbos last week. He mentioned that his brother works as a master technician for BMW and recommended changing the parts as a few n54s they had in needed those parts replaced under warranty. Could be bs but I decided to give him the go ahead as I had issues with oil consumption and my OCC (now removed).

PHANTOM666 03-18-2012 02:12 PM

Interesting thread...subscribed.

Indo Rider 03-18-2012 02:53 PM

I'm pretty interested too. I've had 3 different OCCs: RR, BSH, and now BMS for the last 6 weeks. I checked the BMS OCC a couple days ago and there's a a coating of oil but no real accumulation. I always drive it like I stole it and I never caught much oil in RR or BSH can either. It would seem though that in all cases, with any can installed, I consume oil much faster, like a quart every 1K to 2K miles as opposed to maybe a quart in 5K with the stock PCV setup. Sounds like enrita and themyst may have had somewhat similar experiences... I hear everyone say you have to use a catch can, but it just doesn't seem like it's working for me and I don't have enough knowledge/experience know what's the best thing to do. So yeah, bring on the discussion.

:popcorn


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