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-   -   High side flapper delete (https://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61792)

naoaki 04-26-2020 08:20 AM

High side flapper delete
 
Hey, guys. Recently I deleted the high side PCV with a factory flapper and installed a catch can to open the atmosphere. However, immediately after that, blue smoke occurred. Blue smoke has disappeared when the original BMS catch-can recirculation method is restored. Shouldn't the high side delete the flapper? The low speed side is building the same system as the RB external system. (Without head port plug)

Zeezul 04-27-2020 05:15 AM

The high side occ doesn't delete the flapper unless you buy a flapper delete fitting. Otherwise, you install the "in" hose directly to the flapper and the "out" hose goes to the rear turbo outlet (unless you vent to atmosphere-then you just plug the turbo outlet port and put a filter on the "out" occ port.

naoaki 04-27-2020 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeezul (Post )
The high side occ doesn't delete the flapper unless you buy a flapper delete fitting. Otherwise, you install the "in" hose directly to the flapper and the "out" hose goes to the rear turbo outlet (unless you vent to atmosphere-then you just plug the turbo outlet port and put a filter on the "out" occ port.

I deleted the flapper using VTT's VTA kit. Immediately after changing, blue smoke will now occur during deceleration. Before that, I used BMS's recirculation catch catch kit and had no blue smoke. It's strange because I think that the high side doesn't work at low speeds or decelerations.

Zeezul 04-27-2020 07:39 AM

The high side is designed to only work when you're on boost, not at low speeds or decel, that's where the low side occ come in to play. You changing from closed loop to vta is causing the blue smoke. Maybe you have an underlying issue that the bms high side occ was masking? I don't vta so I can't say much about that. Maybe your hoses are switched? Got a pic of the install?

Rob@RBTurbo 04-27-2020 10:42 AM

The "high side" flapper is actually dual purpose.

It closes under low load to allow small vacuum to be placed on the crankcase, and with the built-in orifice it allows clean filtrated air (ie. from the air filter rear inlet) to replenish the crankcase environment for "positive crankcase ventilation".

Then under high load it opens and basically does nothing aside for gets out of the way for forced ventilation with some small "vacuum" aid from the rear inlet.

You want to retain the flapper on the high side as long as you are retaining the PCV valve as part of your system.

Too many people over complicate this system by adding in too many parts they see available online, and wind up with some hodgepodge of a system that just doesn't work properly. Keep it simple out there guys, there is not too much that is needed to be done here for nearly everyone.

Rob

naoaki 04-27-2020 02:22 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeezul (Post )
The high side is designed to only work when you're on boost, not at low speeds or decel, that's where the low side occ come in to play. You changing from closed loop to vta is causing the blue smoke. Maybe you have an underlying issue that the bms high side occ was masking? I don't vta so I can't say much about that. Maybe your hoses are switched? Got a pic of the install?

Finally, I gave up the atmosphere release system and used only the VTT catch can, leaving the factory flapper and returning it to the recirculation system. Blue smoke has disappeared.

naoaki 04-27-2020 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo (Post )
The "high side" flapper is actually dual purpose.

It closes under low load to allow small vacuum to be placed on the crankcase, and with the built-in orifice it allows clean filtrated air (ie. from the air filter rear inlet) to replenish the crankcase environment for "positive crankcase ventilation".

Then under high load it opens and basically does nothing aside for gets out of the way for forced ventilation with some small "vacuum" aid from the rear inlet.

You want to retain the flapper on the high side as long as you are retaining the PCV valve as part of your system.

Too many people over complicate this system by adding in too many parts they see available online, and wind up with some hodgepodge of a system that just doesn't work properly. Keep it simple out there guys, there is not too much that is needed to be done here for nearly everyone.

Rob

Thank you for your explanation. I came to the same idea. Factory flappers are important in PCV systems. I added a check valve in the middle with the VTA system, but it does not seem to have the same effect as the factory flapper. This time I learned a lot about the PCV system.

naoaki 05-07-2020 07:58 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Although flapper delete was impossible, I finally used a valve for adjusting the internal pressure of VTT with a combination of fittings. What surprised me after the installation was that the engine was extremely smooth. It was installed to prevent an excessive vacuum to prevent blue smoke, but it was very effective. I didn't think that the internal pressure control would affect the engine feel so much.:happy

JuniorB 05-14-2020 09:21 PM

What’s the blue fitting you used,size?

naoaki 05-15-2020 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JuniorB (Post )
What’s the blue fitting you used,size?

The fitting I used is the Earls 10AN 90 degree fitting. Since the valve side is not a male fitting, a copper washer with a matching size is put inside to seal it.

SPANKY 05-18-2020 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naoaki (Post )
The fitting I used is the Earls 10AN 90 degree fitting. Since the valve side is not a male fitting, a copper washer with a matching size is put inside to seal it.

Earls 923110ERL Blue 90 Degree -10 AN Female to 1/2 In NPT Male Swivel


Is it this fitting?DID you use tephlon tape or a oring on the engine side?is it a 10an swivel on one side and the thread male on other side is 10an?

naoaki 05-18-2020 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPANKY (Post )
Earls 923110ERL Blue 90 Degree -10 AN Female to 1/2 In NPT Male Swivel


Is it this fitting?DID you use tephlon tape or a oring on the engine side?is it a 10an swivel on one side and the thread male on other side is 10an?

It cannot be installed with the fitting you show. The engine side is M18 1.5. We will provide M18 1.5 to 10AN male conversion fittings and female 10AN 90 degree fittings on both sides. Since the valve side is 10 ORB, a copper washer suitable for the inner diameter is required for sealing.


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