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-   -   HPFP swap (https://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56996)

T_H_O_M_A_S 02-28-2019 10:58 AM

HPFP swap
 
5 Attachment(s)
Ive changed the oem N55 hpfp (hdp5) with a B58 model (hdp5evo) , ive used the same map only a different hpfp , check the rail pressure differences , i'm on 93oct pumpgas for now .

for some reason i cant post the datazap links :s ;)

AZ-MCRacer 02-28-2019 02:32 PM

Any modification necessary or direct bolt on?

Nice work!

:wow:

T_H_O_M_A_S 02-28-2019 04:37 PM

you have to cut off the flange on one side and make new holes as seen on the pictures , you also need a different connector, the oem connector has a red and white wire , the evo pump's connector has a white and a white striped wire . connect white to white and red to white striped . my car started right up after i bolted everything back together . the difference is shown in the screenshots :burnrubber:
partno for the pump : 13517642466
partno for the connector 12518638006

Marlinman 02-28-2019 05:26 PM

WHAT, this is awesome. I wonder how much more it will flow compared to OEM. This could be a good option for those not willing to shell out over 2K for XDIs pump.

hardparker 02-28-2019 07:42 PM

Pretty cool. But, it's still over $1,000 for that pump, new. There's a used one on eBay for $500. What did you pay for that one? I'd be interested in seeing it pushed to its limits, especially with ethanol mixed.

blackhat75 02-28-2019 07:54 PM

If this is legit, it could change my summer vacation plans:) Is a used or reman'd low mileage pump worth it?

T_H_O_M_A_S 03-01-2019 04:17 AM

for this upgrade i have only paid 200 usd for the pump and the connector
you only have to close off in and outlet , and the spring while machining it .
soldering is also pretty easy :)

i'm goign to test with E20 in the upcomming weeks to see what the pump is capable of ;)

hardparker 03-01-2019 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T_H_O_M_A_S (Post )
for this upgrade i have only paid 200 usd for the pump and the connector
you only have to close off in and outlet , and the spring while machining it .
soldering is also pretty easy :)

i'm goign to test with E20 in the upcomming weeks to see what the pump is capable of ;)

Nice! I'm buying a used pump today. How noticeable is that post-shift fuel pressure sag? It's nice to see it recover so quickly, but does it break up at all post-shift?

blackhat75 03-01-2019 07:47 AM

This sounds almost too good to be legit. For years, guys have been looking for an economical solution for more fuel. Most I've read go the PI route, wishing they could afford the TTFS or XDI pumps. How is it that no one till now has tried this?

T_H_O_M_A_S 03-01-2019 07:52 AM

i guess its just the way the dme controls the supply valve ,
but the one thing you cant control when you do a swap , is position of the camshaft driving the hpfp , is either bottom , top or somewhere in between.
you'll notice right away when unbolting the hpfp . you could move the crank a little to make sure its at bottom point otherwise you have to compress the spring while fastening the two bolts , oh and do them half a turn at once alternating between the two .

T_H_O_M_A_S 03-01-2019 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackhat75 (Post )
This sounds almost too good to be legit. For years, guys have been looking for an economical solution for more fuel. Most I've read go the PI route, wishing they could afford the TTFS or XDI pumps. How is it that no one till now has tried this?

ive been searching for a few years too , but there is very little info about serial numbers and pump versions , they do exist but how do you know which pump has what type of piston . xdi states oem n55 pump has 0.9 cm³ per rotation .
hdp5 evo versions go all the way to 1.2cm³ a rotation . do i have the 1.2cm³ version ? :shrug . the logs show it has a larger piston but how large ??
i also asked bosch directly for more info , but in vain as i did not have a racing team and such upgrades werent allowed on street cars .

when going down the e20 route i wonder how far it can be pushed . if i can get 20-21psi on e20 im very happy with the 200usd upgrade

hardparker 03-01-2019 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T_H_O_M_A_S (Post )
ive been searching for a few years too , but there is very little info about serial numbers and pump versions , they do exist but how do you know which pump has what type of piston . xdi states oem n55 pump has 0.9 cm³ per rotation .
hdp5 evo versions go all the way to 1.2cm³ a rotation . do i have the 1.2cm³ version ? :shrug . the logs show it has a larger piston but how large ??
i also asked bosch directly for more info , but in vain as i did not have a racing team and such upgrades werent allowed on street cars .

when going down the e20 route i wonder how far it can be pushed . if i can get 20-21psi on e20 im very happy with the 200usd upgrade

You've got me going down the rabbit hole on this one. It looks like the smallest version of the HDP5 EVO pump is 1.2cc. They get bigger and higher pressure from there.

XDI states that their XDI-35 pump is 1.22cc and the N55 pump is .897cc (GDI High Flow Pump XDI-HPFP for BMW N55 - Xtreme-Di)

Bosch says the HDP5 pump is 1.12cc and that the HDP5 EVO pump is 1.20cc. (https://www.boschautoparts.com/docum...e-b46ceefcf80e). That would seem to indicate that the HDP5 EVO pump is nearly the same capacity as the XDI-35. It's only 1% smaller volume.

Further, the Bosch data sheet say the HDP5 EVO, or Rev C, pump has reduced internal restrictions and the EVO outlet valve, whatever that means. There's a Rev D pump with a still larger piston, too, not that you can get one anywhere. (http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/conte...t_ID0EPD5S.pdf)

What's interesting is that the same pump part number is specified for both the B58 as well as the B46 and B48. I imagine only the cam profile driving them differs. That means any 330i, 340i or similar could provide the donor pump. I checked real OEM to confirm that the 13517642466 pump is found on all the B46, B48 and B58 equipped models.

Another interesting thing is that there was a 13518621084 part number for the same pump that was only in production use for three months. It turns out that 13518621084 pump is $105 - $135 shipped from China via AliExpress. So, there's a possible source for a cheap, brand new pump, too. Make what you will of a short production run pump from China, but it is an option.

Anyhow, I just picked up a used 2018 pump with 12,000 miles on it for $125 shipped and I'll be installing it shortly and upping the boost to take advantage of it.

Endeav 03-01-2019 12:27 PM

Subscribed for further info. Definitely wouldn't mind a cheaper option so I can be a little less reliant on the methanol for fuel!

T_H_O_M_A_S 03-01-2019 12:30 PM

i hope you will have the same results as me

why does the site keep screwing up links to datazap , i want to post my logs so everyone can see the results for their own

https://daatazap.me/u/thomas/log-155...og=0&data=4-21

this is the log with hdp5evo

https://daatazap.me/u/thomas/log-154...og=0&data=4-20

this one is with the oem n55's hdp5

same engine map used for both logs

click the link , remove one letter a in dAAtazap and then you can see them :s

hardparker 03-01-2019 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T_H_O_M_A_S (Post )
i hope you will have the same results as me

why does the site keep screwing up links to datazap , i want to post my logs so everyone can see the results for their own

https://daatazap.me/u/thomas/log-155...og=0&data=4-21

this is the log with hdp5evo

https://daatazap.me/u/thomas/log-154...og=0&data=4-20

this one is with the oem n55's hdp5

click the link , remove one letter a in dAAtazap and then you can see them :s

Me, too, man. I hate pulling the damn intake manifold. I see that the brief fuel pressure dips are from post-shift boost spikes. Do you even feel those? Fingers crossed for higher boost levels with ethanol and rock steady fuel pressures.

T_H_O_M_A_S 03-01-2019 12:50 PM

no the pull feels smooth all the way , only for gear six there is a boost drop , but that map/gearbox software related .

KevinC39 03-01-2019 01:37 PM

They block datazap because they want you to post .csv files since that's what the JB4 spits out.

Frikiton 03-01-2019 01:58 PM

Holy ****

luchocamp 03-02-2019 07:41 AM

Nice, keep it up

houtan 03-02-2019 01:28 PM

Nice work.

So is the N55 hpfp (hdp5) in your car the weaker pump or the stronger one in the early e series N55s (2011 and early 2012)? Just trying to gauge if the b58 would be an upgrade for those cars or if it would even fit.

Marlinman 03-02-2019 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T_H_O_M_A_S (Post )
you have to cut off the flange on one side and make new holes as seen on the pictures , you also need a different connector, the oem connector has a red and white wire , the evo pump's connector has a white and a white striped wire . connect white to white and red to white striped . my car started right up after i bolted everything back together . the difference is shown in the screenshots :burnrubber:
partno for the pump : 13517642466
partno for the connector 12518638006

can you put arrows on your screen shots to be more specific? Thanks!

bmw63 03-02-2019 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardparker (Post )
You've got me going down the rabbit hole on this one. It looks like the smallest version of the HDP5 EVO pump is 1.2cc. They get bigger and higher pressure from there.

XDI states that their XDI-35 pump is 1.22cc and the N55 pump is .897cc (GDI High Flow Pump XDI-HPFP for BMW N55 - Xtreme-Di)

Bosch says the HDP5 pump is 1.12cc and that the HDP5 EVO pump is 1.20cc. (https://www.boschautoparts.com/docum...e-b46ceefcf80e). That would seem to indicate that the HDP5 EVO pump is nearly the same capacity as the XDI-35. It's only 1% smaller volume.

Further, the Bosch data sheet say the HDP5 EVO, or Rev C, pump has reduced internal restrictions and the EVO outlet valve, whatever that means. There's a Rev D pump with a still larger piston, too, not that you can get one anywhere. (http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/conte...t_ID0EPD5S.pdf)

What's interesting is that the same pump part number is specified for both the B58 as well as the B46 and B48. I imagine only the cam profile driving them differs. That means any 330i, 340i or similar could provide the donor pump. I checked real OEM to confirm that the 13517642466 pump is found on all the B46, B48 and B58 equipped models.

Another interesting thing is that there was a 13518621084 part number for the same pump that was only in production use for three months. It turns out that 13518621084 pump is $105 - $135 shipped from China via AliExpress. So, there's a possible source for a cheap, brand new pump, too. Make what you will of a short production run pump from China, but it is an option.

Anyhow, I just picked up a used 2018 pump with 12,000 miles on it for $125 shipped and I'll be installing it shortly and upping the boost to take advantage of it.

do you have any info on the S55 pump? I know it has 2 but what is the piston size, flow etc if we use one of them? they are direct bolt on and wiring is the same.

T_H_O_M_A_S 03-03-2019 06:59 AM

in the first two pictures you can see the cutaway of the evo flange it has to clear the vacuum pumps body , the orientation of the two slits where the bolts go in , follow the hexagonal shape of the pump . they are rotated 60 degrees CW compared to the evo . it allows a few degrees of play as your fuel line connections have rounded shapes . the easy way of doing it is with a 2nd vacuumpump to do your measurements and final adaptation of the two holes . do you take away just enough material as you can see on my pictures . dont rush , this take your time :);)

Showtime456 03-03-2019 09:18 AM

GENIUS BRO!!! SUBSCRIBED AND ORDERIN PUMP TOMMORROW

Showtime456 03-03-2019 09:26 AM

looking at a bosch hdp5evo for $200. Is this simple modifications to the housing, plug play and start car. Any DME programming to make the car run normal?


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