JB4tech.com - International Turbo Tuning Discussion

JB4tech.com - International Turbo Tuning Discussion (https://www.jb4tech.com/forums/index.php)
-   N63, N63TU (https://www.jb4tech.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=57)
-   -   G Chassis N63R JB4 (https://www.jb4tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50405)

zse8h 06-17-2021 12:46 PM

Sure wish I could upload videos here so I could show you all my GPower Sport Silencer Axel back exhaust. It's lovely.

Steve @ BMS/Fuel-It! 06-18-2021 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by capitalst (Post )
I finished putting the JB4 into my X5 M50i. I did plug the OBD2 in and wonder what performance gains it really provides vs not plugging that part in? Thoughts on what it actually does performance wise besides engine gauges on my iPhone?


Allows you to change maps and allows the JB4 to monitor engine data.

Example...if you run lean and that's not plugged in, the JB4 won't kick you to a safe map because it will never know.

Boosted_8 06-20-2021 08:41 AM

I'm running a 2021 M550i lci on map 1 with 94 fuel. Map 1 is +4 psi on top of what ever the ECU asks for. It seems pretty happy at 18psi midrange, maxing at 20psi 5000 - 5500, then tapering down to 16psi at redline.

I don't know the exact turbos used on the 530ps M550i / M850i so the first question is does anyone know the spec of these turbos so I can find the compressor map for them?

If they have any puff left after 5500 rpm - I'm considering using map 6 to ask them to hold another 1-2 psi till 6500.

I don't want to run map 2 additive as +6 pounds of boost on top of the ecu ask is going to be a bit much below 3500 rpm in my view (I have previously bent rods on a mazda speed3 so I'm conservative with high load, low rpm)

I also don't think I want to run 22psi max boost daily without Boostaine for another 2 points of knock resistance.

TLDR: Can the n63Tu3 turbos hold 18 psi at redline and is Map 6 additive like 1 & 2??

Thanks!

zse8h 06-20-2021 09:27 AM

Boosted_8. I hear you. I run map 2 between 93 octane and 102 as I live in Germany. I have has no problems, but I have not gotten on the throttle much either as i choose to stay under 4k rpm for the first 1000 miles. I sure hope 6 psi wouldn't bend rods on our motor. Scary.

Boosted_8 06-20-2021 10:14 AM

Danke Zse8h, das ist gut zu hören. Kurze Frage: Haben Sie immer noch die OPF umgesetzt?

zse8h 06-20-2021 11:03 AM

Hallo, meinst du den ODB-Port? nicht sicher, was OPF ist. Wenn es ein OBD-Port ist, habe ich ihn angeschlossen.

Boosted_8 06-20-2021 11:32 AM

Haha, I will take that as a yes then. Here is some info on the OPF and why it sucks: https://drivetribe.com/p/the-opf-pan...SwSXhNvNEHoBBA

Boosted_8 06-20-2021 12:37 PM

This is our Turbo: Garrett Turbocharger 871207-5030S Technical Specifications Garrett Motion

Struggling to find the detailed specifications however...

zse8h 06-20-2021 04:30 PM

My car is US spec so I am not sure if this document pertains to me? I had it built US spec so I can take it home in 5-7 years. I am not sure it has a PF on it but I wouldn't be surprised if it does. I will ask the dealership here in Stuggart.

As for JB4 stage 2 and Rod bending possiblity I am interested in decussing this. Why do you feel +6 PSI could harm our engine ? When the sub 2020 models were being tuned from 460hp to 600hp this did not seem to be a issue and I can imagine it takes more than 6 psi to achieve a 140hp bump? Thoughts?

Boosted_8 06-21-2021 01:04 AM

If I understand the nature of the additive maps correctly: they were developed for the earlier N63 models running 10-12psi peak boost, with no specific development for the 2021 M550 & M850i 'N63TOP' high output engines (the EWG plugs don't fit, the CEL delete doesn't work, The absolute maps don't function there isn't event a fitting guide etc)

European Spec 530ps N63's are targeting over 16PSI when fitted with the OPF in summer. Adding 6 pounds of boost to that takes you up to tuned M5 Comp boost levels. The F90 S63 is a tougher motor with M specific parts and cooling.

Also the additive map isn't ramped in, its simply what ever the ecu says it wants try to add +6 on map 2. Now at 1500 rpm you will be lucky to spin the turbo much beyond 1-2lbs so you wont hit the target of 7/8psi anyway but once you get to 2.5k rpm I'm worried this is a lot of boost low down for non M specific rods.

I don't have confidence this is the right approach on this platform until I can learn from better data.

zse8h 06-21-2021 01:13 AM

@Terry - any thoughts on this? Your experience could be ideal in helping those of us running map 2 or those looking to move to it feel more comfortable that we will not damage our engine.

Also, would the JB4 sense anything out of the ordinary and place the car in limp map before any catastrophe damage is done? Just wondering what your thoughts are.

Zach

Mike_L 06-21-2021 11:38 AM

The rods are no issue at all. We have the forged rods from the S63TU4, which is regularly tuned to 25+psi and 800+hp. There are even some over 1000 with these stock rods. The turbos, cooling or fuel system are going to prove to be the weak link in this motor, I'm almost certain. The bottom end is from the M5/M8 besides the pistons and is 2JZ levels of bulletproof.

zse8h 06-21-2021 12:03 PM

Thank you Mike. I like hearing your thoughts and knowledge on topics like this. Question: do our cars run 14-15 PSI stock?

Boosted_8 06-21-2021 02:48 PM

Respectfully, nothing is immune to 'too much to soon': S63/S63TU: F90 M5 Bent Rods on DME tune

I know you can find mishaps on any car via the magic of google and its the exception rather than the norm but I want a bit more data to work with.

For example, looking at my map one logs there is some timing pull even on 94 fuel, so I got some 102 in there and my 100-200 time dropped 0.4 of a second. I don't have access to E85 / E30 mix in the UK. If I had that kind of octane I would try map 2 boost using full throttle at 3000 rpm and above, then if I hit targets - make a map 6 with less boost early on.

Mike_L 06-21-2021 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zse8h (Post )
Thank you Mike. I like hearing your thoughts and knowledge on topics like this. Question: do our cars run 14-15 PSI stock?

Our boost varies. Its load based, so theres no fixed boost. I've seen some people talking about 1.3 bar on the N63TU3, which seems very high to me. I need to check on that. I know the original N63s ran 11.6psi, so 8psi more seems excessive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boosted_8 (Post )
Respectfully, nothing is immune to 'too much to soon': S63/S63TU: F90 M5 Bent Rods on DME tune

I know you can find mishaps on any car via the magic of google and its the exception rather than the norm but I want a bit more data to work with.

For example, looking at my map one logs there is some timing pull even on 94 fuel, so I got some 102 in there and my 100-200 time dropped 0.4 of a second. I don't have access to E85 / E30 mix in the UK. If I had that kind of octane I would try map 2 boost using full throttle at 3000 rpm and above, then if I hit targets - make a map 6 with less boost early on.

Interesting. I hadn't seen that. Is that an S63TU4 motor?

I'm reading that 20psi is considered safe, and the turbos will go to about 25psi for us. Our cams are set up for strong midrange, while the S63 cams are more top end biased. Thats not exactly great if the rods don't like a hard torque hit, because in the low end and midrange, we're going to hit harder. I'm wondering if a prerequisite to a tune should be the S63 intake cams to raise the powerband. And the tunes definitely need to come on weaker and hit harder on the top end.

I'm leased, so thats not something I can really experiment with. I think one of the tuners needs to.

Boosted_8 06-22-2021 07:37 AM

I'm Octane constrained beyond 20PSI without full ecu control on 94 gas. I'm not prepared to push it. @zse8h have you got a Map 2 log in 4th gear?

zse8h 06-22-2021 07:48 AM

No - I took the Jb4 off for a dealership appointment and have not put it back on yet. I can get you one soon though. Further - I had no check engine lights or codes while running Map 2. however, I did do a 140mph autobahn pull ;)

Boosted_8 06-27-2021 02:51 PM

1 Attachment(s)
I made a conservative map 6 up tonight for 94 fuel with gently ramped boost to +3lbs at peak (16-17 psi now). ECU was happily adding timing everywhere esp up top vs Map1 at high rpm. Big engine and smallish turbos don't want to make much boost after 6000 rpm, Map2 is going to need hella octane on this platform... 18+ psi at 6500rpm no thanks!

Logs get smoother towards the last run where I took a 0.5lbs out of the middle rpm. Happy with this for the daily now.

zse8h 06-27-2021 10:33 PM

Boosted - are you interested in some logs running map 1 and 2? I have not launched yet and don't plan to for a bit but some 40 to 200kph could be helpful right? I am running ultimate 102 here in Germany which is a dream.

zse8h 06-27-2021 11:04 PM

Boosted - you make great points so thinks for your time and effort. Anyway I can copy your map6 to my JB4 and test it out?

Boosted_8 06-28-2021 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zse8h (Post )
Boosted - are you interested in some logs running map 1 and 2? I have not launched yet and don't plan to for a bit but some 40 to 200kph could be helpful right? I am running ultimate 102 here in Germany which is a dream.

Quickest way to get meaningful data is put her in manual 4th gear and roll onto the throttle @ 2000 rpm up to redline. I have turned off the log on WOT option and manually hit the green log now button to start and stop the data collection. That's just my method, do what ever is safest/legal for you!

Boosted_8 06-28-2021 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zse8h (Post )
Boosted - you make great points so thinks for your time and effort. Anyway I can copy your map6 to my JB4 and test it out?

Sure, its a very conservative map and might feel a bit slow if you are used to map2 on great fuel. Will take a screen shot of my phone tonight and post it with the final values I settled on.

zse8h 06-28-2021 05:58 AM

Thanks - I think with all the conversations on Map 2 and power delivery, I may drop back to Map 1. I honestly do not want to spend 100Euro every time I want to fill up with ultimate 102. And it sounds like you have dialed in Map1 better than the off-the-shelf that comes with the JB4. I honestly need a good daily driver tune anyway.

Oh - I am waiting on a few more emails then I will pull the trigger on sway bars from hard race. Dinan springs and new bars should help decrease the body roll and stiffen up the dips and dives when hitting brakes. I hope it improves turning response, too, just a little.


Thanks

Boosted_8 06-29-2021 01:07 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Like I said pretty conservative map. Went through 3 iterations over the weekend. Drives smooth with all the spikes ironed out (on my car). My logs show it touching 17psi actual boost at 5000-5500 rpm.

Re: Handling I think this car just needs a little bit more camber. You will get that as a by-product of using lowering springs. The alternative is using some M5 Comp camber arms / Hardrace adjustable arms to keep the stock ride comfort and spring travel.

I have already buckled on 20" alloy wheel on this car, without meatier sidewall tyres I would not consider lowering over here.

Germany and France have nice roads in general so you'll be fine!

zse8h 06-30-2021 01:14 AM

A few pulls in traffic
 
2 Attachment(s)
This isn't much but I copied your setting for map 6 but I max at 3.2 in added boost. I will get a cleaner log mid day today if its not raining.


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:26 PM.


Copyright © 2007 - 2022, JB4tech.com