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-   -   Trying to unleash the BEAST again... (https://www.jb4tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64354)

Stevae 01-25-2021 05:17 PM

Trying to unleash the BEAST again...
 
Okay, I'm really missing something here, and I'm hoping the support staff/board can help me understand or figure out what I'm missing.
Before I changed my tune from a custom MHD tune to a JB4 BEF tune, my car was WILD. That's the best way I know how to explain it. From the time I put the last upgraded pieces on it, to the time I changed the flash, when I hit the pedal in my car, it would scare the crap out of you! But it was thrilling!!! It always seemed to be just on the other side of out-of-control. However, when I first putting the JB4 in it, it brought the craziness even further down low. What I mean by that, is the wildness came even further down on the rpm range. Where it only got real wild beyond 3500-4200rpm previously, it would try to get wild down around the 3000rpm mark.
So I started changing settings and trying to set it up correctly for the ECU I had, the TMAP sensor. Then I started getting Engine Reduced Power "Half Engine" warnings every time I started my car. So I started working with Terry to dial it in. And we did get it dialed in, and the warnings went away. HOWEVER, and this is the main point of this post, even though my car is running very smoothly, it isn't wild anymore. It's not even close to as quick or fast as it was. When I hit the pedal now, it's much slower and there's NO THRILL at all. It's very tame. And that is killing me.
So, my logic and reasoning is this: If the car made all that speed, hp and torque previously, it can make it again. It still had it when I first put the JB4 on there, and I think it can have it again. I want to keep the JB4, but push the car back to it's crazy personality it had previously, and I'm hoping this board can help me to do it. Right now my boost is really close to my boost target (22-25psi on WOT). And my FF is right in line with WGDC (mid 40's and some 50's on boost). So what can I tinker with to bring back the over-all power and wildness it had before? It doesn't feel like I have any of the down low torque I had before. And on the road I use to test and get logs, I previously would hit about 145-150mph before getting to the point where I needed to slow down before the curve. Now I barely get to 115-120mph. There is a very noticeable difference. So I'd like to tinker with it and try to get back to at least the 140mph range. Thanks for any help offered.

chrisc3 01-25-2021 08:20 PM

You had a custom tune specifically made for your car and you got rid of it for a piggyback....:clap:

Stevae 01-25-2021 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisc3 (Post )
You had a custom tune specifically made for your car and you got rid of it for a piggyback....:clap:

What do you mean, "had"??? I didn't get rid of it, I just tried something different. I can put it back in anytime I choose to. There's no need to be a smart ass. I'm trying to figure out if I can use a JB4 for the safety and off the cuff changes, and you didn't add anything of relevance to the conversation. And I'm not going to just give up just because it's not perfect after the first try at tuning it with the JB4/BEF. I didn't jump on your thread smirking at you for totally screwing up your HPFP, did I?
I can always go back to the custom tune, and revive the monster with a couple of clicks. If you don't want to help, that's fine. But you can keep your smart ass remarks to yourself, as they aren't benefiting anyone, and you should concentrate on your own problems which are much worse than mine.

ruskiracer 01-26-2021 08:41 AM

Fastest 60-130 time on this platform was set using a jb4 so thats not really the restriction its just dialing it in properly. Weird thing is when I put a jb4 on my car with just a generic bef that I got on here. It rips so much harder once port injection kicks in. What map are you using ? Some people are just haters and will pay 400 for a custom tune because they don't wanna tune there own car nor learn how to. And then make uneducated comments that make no sense

Stevae 01-27-2021 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruskiracer (Post )
Fastest 60-130 time on this platform was set using a jb4 so thats not really the restriction its just dialing it in properly. Weird thing is when I put a jb4 on my car with just a generic bef that I got on here. It rips so much harder once port injection kicks in. What map are you using ? Some people are just haters and will pay 400 for a custom tune because they don't wanna tune there own car nor learn how to. And then make uneducated comments that make no sense

Right now I'm using Map 6, because I have custom settings that Terry worked with me to set. But it was all about getting the boost and boost target aligned, and the same with FF and WGDC. It really wasn't at all about getting the most power out of it. And while we accomplished aligning those things, it's just not really powerful anymore.
I really don't understand why they have a Full Map for 13psi and ANOTHER Full Map for 14psi, but NOT a Full Map for 20psi or 24psi??? At the very least I would expect, and even prefer Maps for lower end ~13psi, mid end ~17psi and a high end ~22-25psi. It just doesn't make complete sense to me how it's laid out. But I'm sure Terry has his reasons, as he's a bright guy.
I'm definitely one to want to learn how to tune my own car, but some of the write-ups on specific settings are a little ambiguous. I do have a few questions for you, like are you still using flat "50's" on your fuel bias, or have you changed that to custom settings? What about the other settings like PID GAIN or FUEL OPEN LOOP? Thanks for you reply.

ruskiracer 01-27-2021 10:44 AM

My car is having really bad overboost issues in pretty much every jb4 map right now I have all the parameters pretty much untouched since I don't want to make things worse or blown car up it will make 36 pounds and blow the tires off at 4500 rpm maxing out my 3.5 bar and kicking me down into map 1. Could be a faulty Mac solenoid not sure im tryna get some help from Terry as well because I'm more familiar with flash only setups. I made a custom map 6 that I tried to target 16 psi but I made 36 so trying to diagnose with Terry what to do. He recommended me to set duty bias to 50 across the board in map 2 and see if I have boost control like that.

THE BEAST 01-28-2021 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stevae (Post )
Okay, I'm really missing something here, and I'm hoping the support staff/board can help me understand or figure out what I'm missing.
Before I changed my tune from a custom MHD tune to a JB4 BEF tune, my car was WILD. That's the best way I know how to explain it. From the time I put the last upgraded pieces on it, to the time I changed the flash, when I hit the pedal in my car, it would scare the crap out of you! But it was thrilling!!! It always seemed to be just on the other side of out-of-control. However, when I first putting the JB4 in it, it brought the craziness even further down low. What I mean by that, is the wildness came even further down on the rpm range. Where it only got real wild beyond 3500-4200rpm previously, it would try to get wild down around the 3000rpm mark.
So I started changing settings and trying to set it up correctly for the ECU I had, the TMAP sensor. Then I started getting Engine Reduced Power "Half Engine" warnings every time I started my car. So I started working with Terry to dial it in. And we did get it dialed in, and the warnings went away. HOWEVER, and this is the main point of this post, even though my car is running very smoothly, it isn't wild anymore. It's not even close to as quick or fast as it was. When I hit the pedal now, it's much slower and there's NO THRILL at all. It's very tame. And that is killing me.
So, my logic and reasoning is this: If the car made all that speed, hp and torque previously, it can make it again. It still had it when I first put the JB4 on there, and I think it can have it again. I want to keep the JB4, but push the car back to it's crazy personality it had previously, and I'm hoping this board can help me to do it. Right now my boost is really close to my boost target (22-25psi on WOT). And my FF is right in line with WGDC (mid 40's and some 50's on boost). So what can I tinker with to bring back the over-all power and wildness it had before? It doesn't feel like I have any of the down low torque I had before. And on the road I use to test and get logs, I previously would hit about 145-150mph before getting to the point where I needed to slow down before the curve. Now I barely get to 115-120mph. There is a very noticeable difference. So I'd like to tinker with it and try to get back to at least the 140mph range. Thanks for any help offered.

Can you post a log ?
Can't really offer any insight without one.
3rd gear, 2500 to redline, tc off

Stevae 01-28-2021 05:12 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by THE BEAST (Post )
Can you post a log ?
Can't really offer any insight without one.
3rd gear, 2500 to redline, tc off

Absolutely. Here's a few of them. Granted they are from a few days back, as I didn't get a chance today. I look forward to any advise you might have. Sorry, but they are combined, as Terry asked me to set that feature. But there are several 3rd gear pulls to redline.

Terry @ BMS 01-28-2021 05:19 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Timing and fuel pressure are both a mess here. Is there a clear list of mods on the car, and fuel being used? All I see above is block text and it's hard to read all of it to get the info I'd need to help on the tuning end.

If I'm already helping you via email then I don't know why you also made this thread. I work with 100s of customers a week so can't keep track of peoples cars and tuning situations outside of the email chains.

Stevae 01-28-2021 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS (Post )
Timing and fuel pressure are both a mess here. Is there a clear list of mods on the car, and fuel being used? All I see above is block text and it's hard to read all of it to get the info I'd need to help on the tuning end.

If I'm already helping you via email then I don't know why you also made this thread. I work with 100s of customers a week so can't keep track of peoples cars and tuning situations outside of the email chains.

Sorry, maybe I misunderstood you, as I thought you said it was all done in your last email. I wasn't trying to be deceitful, I was just looking to keep going when I thought your last message was that you were finished.
I'll include a clear list of mods below. I'm curious to learn how much timing should the car be making on accelerations, or what are actually good numbers? I've read through it previously and thought something around three for high power tunes, but am still not quite sure as it seems to be a dynamic measure. Also, I'll stay away from the E85 while we try to get this right, and just use 93 octane.

- VRSF ***less DP's
- M-Performance exhaust
- 3" custom inlets/outlets
- Upgraded Turbos Hexon RR600s
- Index 12 Fuel injectors
- VRSF 7.5" FMIC
- VRSF aluminum Charge Pipe
- Forged aluminum Diverter Valves with upgraded Yellow Springs
- Walbro 450 LPFP
- Spec Stage 3+ clutch w SMFW
- Custom welded RB external PVC with ported and polished heads from Motiv
- BMS dual OCC's and cowl delete with BMS filters
- BMS DCI's
- M3 suspension
- KW v3 coilovers
- 3.5 Bar TMAP Sensor
- 2 step colder NGK spark plugs
- JB4 with BEF "PUMP"
- 93 octane normally, sometimes with 30% E85.

Terry @ BMS 01-29-2021 08:16 PM

OK If I'm helping you via email then will reply there. But I'd turn boost down looks way too aggressive to me for the fuel being used.

Terry @ BMS 01-31-2021 09:14 PM

Working with only 93 octane something with a mild timing curve, similar to our PUMP BEF, and boost around 20psi peak tapering to 18psi up top, similar to our map7, is generally where peak performance winds up.

Stevae 02-25-2021 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS (Post )
Working with only 93 octane something with a mild timing curve, similar to our PUMP BEF, and boost around 20psi peak tapering to 18psi up top, similar to our map7, is generally where peak performance winds up.

Without a doubt the car runs smoothly in that setup. But, it's now boring. There's no scary acceleration or on the edge power in any gear. I understand that this is a healthy setup for the car, but it's so under-powered as to take away the joy of driving the car. I don't know why my custom MHD tune doesn't play well with the JB4. And I really, really wanted to have that JB4 control right at my fingertips, which is so so convenient. BUT, I've sacrificed all of the thrill this car used to provide me with to use this JB4. When I take the JB4 off the car, and go back to the custom MHD tune, the car runs like a beast! It's scary fast, and melt's the tires in four of the six gears. And while I miss that excitement, I really like the instant control, extra safety and anti-theft of having the JB4 on the car.
And so now I am locked in a crazy state of indecision as to what I truly want to do. I'm leaning towards getting rid of the JB4 and just going back to the way it was. But then I think of the benefits of keeping it. I really wish there was a stronger map within the JB4 firmware that allowed for the boost and parameters I get without it.
I do appreciate all of the time and help you've given to me in trying to get the car setup well.

lupee431 02-27-2021 04:21 PM

Same here. Been working thru JB4 issues for a while. I generally run Map 1-2. Been having overboost issues that may or may not be related to the WG.


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